Intel limiting OC of CPU by 10% with new chipsets.

[Zebo]

Any first year economics course will explain price/performance curves and how they affect consumer spending. The sensible consumers are the ones that take a detached, unemotional view of buying. This leads to money saved and spent elsewhere where it can better accumulate. It's a fundamental, accepted concept. It's so childish, they don't even bother writing a formula for it. If something costs twice as much it should be twice as good. I'm at a loss to understand why this wasn't explained to you or why you didn't pick it up somewhere but instead call people cheap becasue you can't understand the concept. The A64 is an emotional and a foolish choice right now. Proof is in glaoting over paying 300% more money for maybe 20% more product.

 

[Bar81]

Please shove it. I have a degree in econ and have a better understanding of theories in the field than you. I call people cheap because they are. Second, try to pick one argument and stick to it, are people not buying A64s because there aren't any good mobos or because potential buyers aren't getting enough price/performance?

Stop all the A64 hating. Most people who buy them are WELL informed of the benefits. Just because you can't afford one, doesn't mean it's an "emotional" decision.

 

[Zebo]

Sure it was. The purchase was not based on an extensive cost/benefit analysis. There was little or no consideration of price/performance ratios. You wanted the best and paid a premium for it. But to say it was a rational choice and not emotional choice flys in the face of accepted price/performance curves. I won't critisize you for it only to say it represents a poor value since it's not in-line with price/performance.

A-XP buyers and Northwood buyers take a more common approach to puchasing. Obviously by thier popularity. They had a rough idea what level of performance would satisfy their requirements, and they compared many products to see which one offered the most performance for the least money. They knew that would probably mean making do with less than the very best available, but they also knew that they had no real need for the very best available. Certainly they desired it, but rationally they understood that the large price premium would be better spent elsewhere. They are not cheap, or poor, or tight-fisted. They simply would rather use that money for something more productive. This brings us to the reason AMD's A64 pricing strategy is folly and NO ONE is buying 939's even those who have A64's realise what this group does at this price point.


My mind was made up far as the mobo issue, when buying a whole system the price/performance ratios of a A64 or a P4 are more in line with accepted curve and is perfectly acceptable. And when a good mobo arrives the A64 will fly off the shelves for peoples new systems. But to upgrade just mobo and processor to A64, especially upgrading to the 939 which you even agreed with represents a poor value, over other choices does not represent value.

 

[Bar81]

No. I'm done wasting my time on you.

 

[Soulkeeper]

that sucks ohhh well
amd rocks !!!
hehehe

 

[BugsBunny1078]

This is just for intel chips, noone is stopping VIA from making a chipset that will allow overclocking of the Intel processors. I have a feeling this is likely to only be in effect for intel motherboards too. I bet Asus will be able to have it disabled for their intel chipset motherboards.
If not like I said there is a market for third party parts created which is fine.

 

[SickBeast]

Yeah but wasn't half the point in using an intel rig to AVOID using chipset made by VIA and SiS?

Not only that, but intel can be very controlling in these matters, and if they want overclocking reduced to 10%, they can do it if they want.

 

[imported_goku]

Yea thats what I thought but VIA and SIS will be appealing to the "enthusiests" crowd. Im just wondering are VIA chipsets any reliable?

But don;t forget, there is still the SiS and VIA chipsets. Remember when Intel shot itself in the foot last time and VIA got a large share of the chipset market and really put them on the map.

When did intel "shoot it's self in the foot"? Because the only reason I dont buy AMD yet is because I need to build a quick reliable system with out having to fiddle with it too much and if I am forced to use VIA will it be like using SIS? Because I KNOW SIS is crap, I built a P4 System with a SIS chipset was horribly unstable. Maybe VIA can take advantage of Intel's greediness and try VERY hard to make thier chipsets as reliable as Intel 875P, but for the with the new Socket Setup. Didnt intel say they were discussing an "enthusiests" mobo or somin? Also, where do you go to complain to intel.

 

[Vette73]

You need to stop building computers if you think SiS or VIA are "unstable".


Yes back in the 686 southbridge days Via had problems, but SiS and Via make great chipsets now. The only people that don;t think they do are Fanboys or people that don't know how to REALLY build a computer. I have build systems with intel, via, nivida, sis, etc... chipsets and rarely had anyproblems due to the chipset.


Also it looks like VIA will be the only new 775 chipset that supports TRUE AGP and PCI-E 16

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: Degrador



AMD has always said they like to support the overclocking market. I'd say that's why they've left the mobile athlons unlocked - they encourage overclockers to pay a little more for an unlocked chip and take the risk of what it's capable of.

Nonsense. The Mobiles are unlocked because they have to be for PowerNow! to work.Please, Stop extolling AMD as the "feel good" company. They had no intention of offering you an overclockers dream on a tight budget as demonstrated by locking the desktop 32bit line, capping the multi on the A64s, and forcing you to pay a huge premium for a fully unlocked FX. Work arounds for the lock on the Bartons and the capabilities of the mobiles in a desktop system are not overclocking solutions AMD offered up, they are due to the ingenuity of the Review and enthusiasts community. Also, as I see it, Intel has provided various microprocessor and chipsets that overclock extraordinarily well rather consistantly so give the :evil: his due.

 

[imported_goku]

This is what Marlin1975

You need to stop building computers if you think SiS or VIA are "unstable".

For one thing I DIDNT say that VIA was unstable because I CANT! I've never had to use a VIA chipset it's just that Intel I know for a fact they have stable chipsets. What I do know about VIA is that my friend has had pretty good luck with them in his AMD systems but I cant say if they're stable or not for intel because agian I've never used them.
I know that SIS IS unstable because I built a system back in May for my cousin and had horrible stability issues. Dont say that I'm a "Fanboy" of intel, I just use intel because I need to build a quick stable system for erronious reasons. For example I had an Intel 440BX MOBO with a dell that I DIDNT BUY but had and needed to fix my sister's computer but the problem is that the Intel 440BX MOBO doesnt support 250GIG drives natively so I bought an Abit IC7-G Mobo for my self regardless of the fact my Cousin's computer had caused me enough stress, built the PC with no problems at ALL which is running smoothly and I am working on her HDD right now. Also her system doesnt support big drives natively EITHER so I was very rushed in getting it to work. I needed to multipartition her drive with XP and Win2000 but it seems to me DiskDriveOverlays dont like multiple partitions, So I am working on a solution at this time.
I will in fact in the future Build an AMD system because of the fact they have unlocked multipliers on their Mobile Processors and it will just be a "Hobbyist" project. If I was a "TRUE" Intel fanboy then I would have bought an Intel mobo!
BTW the MOBO with the SIS chipset I put in my cousin's PC is an ABIT! SG-72 to be exact. I only bought the CHEAPO board because my cousin's are CHEAPO people and needed a Processor and MOBO combo. Oh one more thing, I was using Corsair Ram 256MB2X in my cousin's sytem and in mine, funny how one old ass, cheap ass,crappy ass chipset can really screw things up. If it was a CHEAPO intel board I'm sure I wouldnt have been up 2 Nights straight trying to get it to work properly in Windows, I would have been up longer but I had to leave on a plane. YES I DID TRY TO USE THE LATEST DRIVERS but to no avail, I will never use SIS AGIAN!

 

[Avalon]

One bad board doesn't mean you can conclude SiS makes unstable chipsets...
You either didn't do your research and bought a flimsy board, or simply got a bad one.
It happens.

 

[Vette73]

^^



OMG, you built a whole ONE system with a SiS chipset and had problems. So to you that means ALL SiS chipsets are bad. :roll:


I have built 7 systems using SiS chipsets in the last year, AMD and Intel ones, and did not have any problems with any of them. I guess by your standards I got lucky. :laugh:


From now on, stop building computers and just call Hp, Dell, eMachines, etc... and stop thinking you know what you are doing.

 

[imported_goku]

F|_|cking CHRIST! For one thing I have built many systems Marlin1975. I have actually "attempted" to run about 3 different systems that all Had a SIS chipset in it. If I built a recent system with a SIS chipset and they're still sh!t, then I am pretty damn well goanna assume that they're sh!t! Dont defend a company that makes poorly designed chipsets because that will only encourage them. If anything they should be bought out by VIA because intel has recently become very controlling and VIA (POSSIBLY) is making reliable chipsets for the Intel Processor Platform. Just because I havent posted much doesnt mean I'm not experienced. I have read many books on Highly technical components in older computers because I like to work with "Old School" computers. I have only recently indulged with Top of the Line Components in the Modern age of Advanced Processors with more processing power and capabilities people 5 years ago couldnt possibly believe would be like the way it is today. My fastest computer before it became a problem to play games was a Pentium II 450, from then on I have strived to get the latest components I can afford so that I can lay dormant agian until I am unable to play newer games. The only PC based Processors I have NOT worked with are the 286 and 386 and thats it!

 

[FelixDeCat]

repost

 

[imported_Aelius]

Fact is some chipset and motherboard manufacturer combinations are not good quality picks, depending on what you are doing. Sometimes boards work fine in default, then all of a sudden you try to OC and the BIOS refuses to keep settings or the OC repeatedly fails on what would appear to be a simple OC. Sometimes certain combination of chipsets and motherboard makers works great while others using the same chipset/motherboard just suck wang. This includes both the recent VIA chipset for socket 939 and the new nForce3 250GB chipset for socket 939. Both of these chipsets are having various problems and this has been true of chipsets and motherboards in general.

There is no such thing as a hardware utopia, although everyone who builds a system strives for it.

Anyone who knows what they are talking about would know this.

You have to pick the right combination. Its a proven documented fact since day 1.

Nuff said.

 

[Hans5849]

could it be possible that intel is limiting OCing on intel boards, and manufacturers can do as they please

 

[AristoV300]

From what I have seen of the new Intel chipset, they would be best to have some good overclocking. The benching I have seen leaves alot to be desired...

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Hans5849
could it be possible that intel is limiting OCing on intel boards, and manufacturers can do as they please

Not really, apparently the manufacturers have found a "hack" to allow more overclocking, but it's still limited at 20% or so. Considering a good overclock is 50%, that's still not anywhere near good enough for most people.

 

[Budman]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
Given some time, I'm sure AMD will do this same thing. I'm sure these companies are losing millions of dollars due to people like us overclocking. It's too bad, and I think the days of overclocking are numbered.

They are not really be losing money because of overclocking,most people who buy a slower clocked cpu do so because they cant afford to buy the high end high priced chips.

Overclocking for me is just a bonus,if I cant overclock then I will still buy lower clocked & cheaper chips,not being able to overclock will not change my budget.

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: SickBeast

Originally posted by: Hans5849
could it be possible that intel is limiting OCing on intel boards, and manufacturers can do as they please

Not really, apparently the manufacturers have found a "hack" to allow more overclocking, but it's still limited at 20% or so. Considering a good overclock is 50%, that's still not anywhere near good enough for most people.

Yea I read some were able to get 15 and maybe up to 20% more. But I whonder if that will affect any other part of the chip and/or make it unstable when it goes past intels limit. Kinda like turning on Pat for the 865 chipset. Sometimes it works ok, but sometimes the system can become unstable trying to force it.

 

[GeneralGrievous]

I think sickbeast is right. If mobile bartons weren't available I'd probably go out and get myself an Athlon 64 or something.

Now, if I were AMD, I'd hike the prices on all mobile Athlons by $20 or so, but that's just me.

 

[TerryMathews]

I will never own a system that is locked up like a child's toy with all the good features out of reach.

GM doesn't actively interfere with my tuning of my car. Who is Intel to think they can do that when it comes to my processor/motherboard?

 

[White Widow]

Originally posted by: Falloutboy525
I really doubt amd will do this thier is little point for them to do this. they know thier only chance is to keep in the good graces of the enthusiest crowd and if they piss them off it could really hurt

You muean just like they cared about us and showed by following Intel's lead and locking the multiplier way back when on the AthlonXP?

No offense, but get real. AMD has no more regard for the enthusiast community than Intel. AMD will just sit back, let Intel take what little fire there is, and then follow suit. They have nothig to lose. I don't know wht poeple think that the enthusiast community has any sway wth these companies. All we do is buy slower chips and run them faster. If that possibility is wiped out, then what are we gonna do? Abandon modern computers and start scrounginf for K6-2's? I don't think so. The vast majority of the profits for both AMD and Intel come from OEM sales, not people like us. And seeing as we have nowhere else to go (Via C3 anyone?) they can do whatever they like with us.

Originally posted by: Degrador

AMD has always said they like to support the overclocking market. I'd say that's why they've left the mobile athlons unlocked...

That is nonsense. AMD left the multiplier unlocked to enable the dynamic underclocking support for PowerNow. AMD has absolutely no wish to support and encourage overclockers buying unlocked mobile chips for use in desktop systems. Why do you idealize AMD so rediculously. AMD has many virtues that should be extolled, but a love of and support for the overclokcing community is most certainly not one of them. Why do you think this? Because their most rediculously over-priced CPU is overclocked just for you? Wake up.