Intel Larrabee architecture revealed

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Stoneburner

Diamond Member
May 29, 2003
3,491
0
76
Intel having resources doesn't necessarily mean anything. I submit, for reference, itanium. And also their last attempt at graphics. And Netburst.

Also, i wonder if Intel's shareholders will be happy with such an attempt....

 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
Originally posted by: tuteja1986
Originally posted by: s44
Originally posted by: Aberforth
I hope it crushes ATI and NV.
No you don't.

You thought a duopoly was bad?

lol... IF Intel owns CPU and GPU market... very bad news to consumer and industry.
Larabee exterme edition 3.2Ghz $1200USD :(
Larabee 700 3.0Ghz $800
Larabee 600 2.9Ghz $700
Larabee 400 2.6Ghz $500
Larabee 300 2.4Ghz $400
Larabee 200 2.2Ghz $250
Larabee 100 1.8Ghz $150

2 year cycle :! each cycle only bringing 30% peformance increase :!

If they actually crush the competition... 2 year cycle, each cycle brings a performance LOSS but higher clockspeeds... (netburst)
 

Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
11,366
2
0
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Intel having resources doesn't necessarily mean anything. I submit, for reference, itanium. And also their last attempt at graphics. And Netburst.

Also, i wonder if Intel's shareholders will be happy with such an attempt....


Like I said If all goes as intels plans this will change everything. But its only going to be as good as the hardware software. As far as the software side of things go lets see just how good Boris is with compilers for terathreads. Of course Boris has teamates and I don't mean to leave them out of this mission crital compiler But Boris is the Man.

As for Itanic lets just wait untel after the fatlady sings. The new itanic with 4 cores SMT ondie memory controller(dual) and QP . Isn't a core 2 brother its going to be a seious number cruncher. Lets just wait till we see the peformance befor we place Itanic in the freezing deep blue .Shall we?

I have noticed something strange . It applies to us all . I noticed that people are saying performance will stop if Intel pawns all . Performance will go down cost up. Gentlemen I just don't buy it at all. Than there is this. Lets say intel can do Good raytracing in 3/4 years. Now thats very close to real time. The compute power were talking here is enormise. At a point very soon we well be at a place were graphics just won't improve on the hardware side. The software side now thats a hole nother topic almost. On the hardware side the future is trying to put all this on your wrist.

 

bunnyfubbles

Lifer
Sep 3, 2001
12,248
3
0
Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Intel having resources doesn't necessarily mean anything. I submit, for reference, itanium. And also their last attempt at graphics. And Netburst.

Also, i wonder if Intel's shareholders will be happy with such an attempt....

and the team that is responsible for Netburst is also responsible for Larrabee :D
 

Dadofamunky

Platinum Member
Jan 4, 2005
2,184
0
0
Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles
Originally posted by: Dadofamunky
Wow. Ten Pentium Classic cores. Hmmm. Hard to get REAL excited about that. Still, it's kinda cool that Intel is attempting to leverage some of their old IP to push innovation and competition in the video card market. WAY too long to read all the way through tonight, though. :eek:

10 is just the ratio of equal resources when compared to current C2D tech (ie it would be 20 cores if compared to a C2Q)...an actual product might have much more...

The move to 45nm could scale as well as 50%, but chances are we'll see something closer to 60 - 70% of the die size simply by moving to 45nm (which is the node that Larrabee will be built on). Our 40-core Larrabee is now at ~370mm^2 on 45nm. If Intel wanted to push for a NVIDIA-like die size we could easily see a 64-core Larrabee at launch for the high end, with 24 or 32-core versions aiming at the mainstream.

This is all purely speculation but it's a discussion that was worth having publicly.

Don't get me wrong, I know that's totally possible. My company works with a 16-core chip based on a 64-bit MIPS processor core. To tell the truth, I'd be surprised if Intel didn't scale the core count higher.
 

SunnyD

Belgian Waffler
Jan 2, 2001
32,675
146
106
www.neftastic.com
Originally posted by: Modelworks
I was really interested until this part"Larrabee's default OpenGL/DirectX renderer is tile based", there goes my hope of vray on Larrabee.
Oh well, I'll just keep throwing more Mhz at it.

There's nothing said it can't do both! It's a software renderer, which means it's programmable. That said, there's nothing saying Intel can't provide (for example) iDirect3D.dll, iOpenGL.dll and iRayTrace.dll and load whichever one the software requests! General purpose = fully programmable = on demand.

Speaking of Ray Tracing - bear in mind that Intel demoed their ray tracing tech on was it Skulltrail or was it Nehealm? And it was with 8 non-optimized cores (or was it four? I honestly can't remember). And they were getting acceptable performance at acceptable resolutions for the proof of concept. Now imagine taking that tech and dropping it into 32 highly-optimized cores likely with specific extensions to expedite said tech. You now have a MONSTER that is ready to change the face of 3D computer graphics in it's first incarnation, and it's only going to get faster.

Originally posted by: Wreckem
Originally posted by: AmdInside
I used to own a 3DLabs graphics card. Drivers for any non-workstation task was nothing to brag about. They also had terrible IQ.

Yeah, however Intel is said to have had heavy involvement in DX11.

Their drivers were far better than NVIDIA's. Keep in mind that the performance was somewhat limited by the hardware of the time, and also by the fact that 3Dlabs cared about precision-correct rendering instead of taking the "optimization shortcuts" that NVIDIA and AMD take for the sake of "gaming performance" (IQ hits galore!).

One other note that I really like about Larrabee at this point... the fact that it's fully programmable. NVIDIA's PureVideo gaffs of past where they claim support on a certain hardware generation, but it's non-existent? Or some sort of deficiency in the GPU? Yeah, with Larrabee all you need to do to fix those issues is a driver update. Patch your video card, instead of dropping $400 on a new model. Gotta love it.
 

Modelworks

Lifer
Feb 22, 2007
16,240
7
76
Originally posted by: SunnyD
Originally posted by: Modelworks
I was really interested until this part"Larrabee's default OpenGL/DirectX renderer is tile based", there goes my hope of vray on Larrabee.
Oh well, I'll just keep throwing more Mhz at it.

Speaking of Ray Tracing - bear in mind that Intel demoed their ray tracing tech on was it Skulltrail or was it Nehealm? And it was with 8 non-optimized cores (or was it four? I honestly can't remember). And they were getting acceptable performance at acceptable resolutions for the proof of concept. Now imagine taking that tech and dropping it into 32 highly-optimized cores likely with specific extensions to expedite said tech. You now have a MONSTER that is ready to change the face of 3D computer graphics in it's first incarnation, and it's only going to get faster.

What intel demoed was a very poor attempt at ray tracing. When you start digging deep into ray tracing and what is required to get high quality with caustics+radiosity it is going to be a long time before anything can do that in real time.

 

Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
11,366
2
0
Originally posted by: Modelworks
Originally posted by: SunnyD
Originally posted by: Modelworks
I was really interested until this part"Larrabee's default OpenGL/DirectX renderer is tile based", there goes my hope of vray on Larrabee.
Oh well, I'll just keep throwing more Mhz at it.

Speaking of Ray Tracing - bear in mind that Intel demoed their ray tracing tech on was it Skulltrail or was it Nehealm? And it was with 8 non-optimized cores (or was it four? I honestly can't remember). And they were getting acceptable performance at acceptable resolutions for the proof of concept. Now imagine taking that tech and dropping it into 32 highly-optimized cores likely with specific extensions to expedite said tech. You now have a MONSTER that is ready to change the face of 3D computer graphics in it's first incarnation, and it's only going to get faster.

What intel demoed was a very poor attempt at ray tracing. When you start digging deep into ray tracing and what is required to get high quality with caustics+radiosity it is going to be a long time before anything can do that in real time.


Your a little vague here on timeline . Whats along time . Iwon't say will get. raytracing thats Good with nehalem . But when sandy is released and larrabee on 32nm . Thats it baby raytracing has arrived . read about sandy and how its being built to work more closely with the GPU . SO in 2010 well have Sandy with 8 cores and AVX and aleast 32 32nm cores+ . I think that 2010 is not alongtime if your young . But for me 2010 is a lifetime away.
The race is to 2011 and I will not bet against AMD beating intel to this point where raytracing is preferred method. AMD has it a bit tougher than intel . You see for both Intel and AMD its all about the compiler NV doesn't have this problem . To bad for NV. . Intel has Boris . Intel mayalso beable leverage AMD into going down the same path . Intel simply has to help AMD with the conpiler. OR maybe AMD could get lucky and come up with a compiler that doesn't take to much performance away from the programm translation . But with enough cache and ondie vertex engine things get really interestesting really fast. To understand this you need to research elbrus. Modelworks you should read more about the Elbrus compiler . Its intersting how easy it is for Intel to mask the problems you point out . Now its not the elbrus compiler were talking about . It will be new but to understand this compiler you need to understand Elbrus. Its something special that will never recieve its do credit in what its already brought to intel s C2D/Itanic. Intel not going to say. Ya and some of the really good stuff comes from Elbrus=Boris. Than again intel doesn't have to make such claims as Boris is a fellow at intel = VERY wealthy.


I do a lot of research its pretty easy . But I have run into a snag its strange one also . With Nehalem just around the corner . And sandy ready in 2010.
I can't find anything from intel beyond sandy . Last year I thought ok its along way off . But Nehalem is done its complete yet nothing beyond sandy.

What lirks in the shadows?
 

SunnyD

Belgian Waffler
Jan 2, 2001
32,675
146
106
www.neftastic.com
Originally posted by: Modelworks
Originally posted by: SunnyD
Originally posted by: Modelworks
I was really interested until this part"Larrabee's default OpenGL/DirectX renderer is tile based", there goes my hope of vray on Larrabee.
Oh well, I'll just keep throwing more Mhz at it.

Speaking of Ray Tracing - bear in mind that Intel demoed their ray tracing tech on was it Skulltrail or was it Nehealm? And it was with 8 non-optimized cores (or was it four? I honestly can't remember). And they were getting acceptable performance at acceptable resolutions for the proof of concept. Now imagine taking that tech and dropping it into 32 highly-optimized cores likely with specific extensions to expedite said tech. You now have a MONSTER that is ready to change the face of 3D computer graphics in it's first incarnation, and it's only going to get faster.

What intel demoed was a very poor attempt at ray tracing. When you start digging deep into ray tracing and what is required to get high quality with caustics+radiosity it is going to be a long time before anything can do that in real time.

Really? I thought that Intel was demoing 1280x720 with decent frame rates and better detail than traditional 3D renderers.

My bad, 1024x1024 on 8 cores. That doesn't really sound like a very poor attempt to me, especially when you're talking about things that most computer enthusiasts care about - games.
 

Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
11,366
2
0
If you guys want . READ THIS its has all the info that OP linked and much much more . Now unless you read it . And Understand what its saying . No need for half empty water glass remarks. If intel pulls this off its changes everthing . If your. an enthusist you gotta want this. Otherwise your the worse kind of fanboy . One who would stand in the way of progress for the sake of a company or maybe financle losses. To bad for you.

The section on RT is interesting.

http://softwarecommunity.intel.../larrabee_manycore.pdf
 

quadomatic

Senior member
May 13, 2007
993
0
76
Whether or not this hardware is groundbreaking or not is not important. If it can compete with the performance lines of cards from ATI and Nvidia, and if Intel uses this sort of design to replace their good processors combined with piece-of-sh!t integrated graphics, then we can see PC gaming expand with more people having the hardware to play games.
 

Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
11,366
2
0
I don't kow but real time raytracing and physics look like there going to do well on larrabee. We lmow intel is working on its own games . We also know that other companies are working on games FOR larrabee . Its said 6 games will be released with larrabee . I bet 1 of those will do alot of raytracing.

Larrabee is also suitable for a wide variety of non-rasterization
based throughput applications. The following is a brief discussion
of the observed scalability and characteristics of several examples.
Figure 17: Game Physics Scalability Performance: this shows
that the Larrabee architecture is scalable to meet the growing
performance needs of interactive rigid body, fluid, and cloth
simulation algorithms and some commonly used collision kernels.
Game Physics: We have performed detailed scalability
simulation analysis of several game physics workloads on various
configurations of Larrabee cores. Figure 17 shows scalability of
some widely used game physics benchmarks and algorithms for
rigid body, fluid, and cloth. We achieve better than 50% resource
utilization using up to 64 Larrabee cores, and achieve near-linear
parallel speedup is some cases. The game rigid body simulation is
based on the popular ?castle? destruction scene with 10K objects.
Scalability plots for Sweep-and-Prune [Cohen et al. 1995] and
GJK [Gilbert et al. 1988] distance algorithms are included since
they are some of the most commonly used collision detection
routines. Game fluid simulation is based on the smoothed particle
hydrodynamics (SPH) algorithm. We used a mass spring model
and Verlet integration for our game cloth simulation [Jacobsen
2001]. Bader et al. [2008] provide details on the implementation
and scalability analysis for these game physics workloads
Figure 18: Real time ray tracing on Larrabee: cropped from a
1Kx1K sample image that requires ~4M rays. The ray tracer was
implemented in C++ with some hand-coded assembly code for
key routines like ray intersection. Kd-trees are typically 25MB
and are built dynamically per frame. Primary and reflection rays
are tested in 16 ray bundles. Nearly all 234K triangles are visible
to primary or reflection rays. (Bar Carta Blanca model by
Guillermo M Leal Llaguno, courtesy of Cornell University.)
Real Time Ray Tracing: The highly irregular nature of spatial
data structures used in Whitted style real-time ray tracers benefit
from Larrabee?s general purpose memory hierarchy, relatively
short pipeline, and VPU instruction set. Here we used SIMD 16
packet ray tracing traversing through a kd-tree. For the complete
workload, we observe that a single Intel Core 2 Duo processor
requires 4.67x more clock cycles than a single Larrabee core,
which shows the effectiveness of the Larrabee instruction set and
wide SIMD. Results are even better for small kernels. For
example, the intersection test of 16 rays to 1 triangle takes 47
cycles on a single Larrabee core. The same test takes 257 Core 2
Duo processor cycles. Figure 18 shows a 1024x1024 frame of the
bar scene with 234K triangles, 1 light source, 1 reflection level,
and typically 4M rays per frame. Figure 19 compares performance
for Larrabee with an instance of the ray tracer running on an Intel
Xeon® processor 2.6GHz with 8 cores total. Shevtsov et al. [2007]
and Reshetov et al. [2005] describe details of this implementation.
Figure 19: Real time ray tracing scalability: this graph compares
different numbers of Larrabee cores with a nominal 1GHz clock
speed to an Intel Xeon processor 2.6GHz with 8 cores total. The
latter uses 4.6x more clock cycles than are required by 8
Larrabee cores due to Larrabee?s wide VPU and vector
instruction set. Figure 18 describes the workload for these tests.
Image and Video Processing: The Larrabee architecture is
suitable for many traditional 2D image and video analysis
applications. Native implementations of traditional 2D filtering
functions (both linear and non-linear) as well as more advanced
functions, like video cast indexing, sports video analysis, human
body tracking, and foreground estimation offer significant
scalability as shown in Figure 20. Biomedical imaging represents
an important subset of this processing type. Medical imaging
needs such as back-projection, volume rendering, automated
segmentation, and robust deformable registration, are related yet
different from those of consumer imaging and graphics. Figure 20
also includes scalability analysis of iso-surface extraction on a 3D
volume dataset using the marching cubes algorithm.
Physical Simulation: Physical simulation applications use
numerical simulation to model complex natural phenomena in
movies and games, such as fire effects, waterfalls in virtual
worlds, and collisions between rigid or deformable objects. Large
data-sets, unstructured control-flow and data accesses often make
these applications more challenging to scale than traditional
streaming applications. Looking beyond interactive game physics,
we also analyzed applicability of Larrabee architecture for the
broader class of entertainment physics including offline movieindustry
effects and distributed real-time virtual-world simulation.
Specific simulation results based on Stanford?s PhysBAM are
shown in Figure 20 and illustrate very good scalability for
production fluid, production cloth, and production face.
Implementation and scalability analysis details are described by
Hughes et al. [2007].
18:12 ? L. Seiler et al.
ACM Transactions on Graphics, Vol. 27, No. 3, Article 18, Publication date: August 2008.
Figure 20: Scalability of select non-graphics applications and
kernels: Larrabee?s general-purpose many-core architecture
delivers performance scalability for various non-graphics visual
and throughput computing workloads and common HPC kernels.
Larrabee is also highly scalable for non-visual throughput
applications, as shown in Figure 20. Larrabee?s highly-threaded
x86 architecture benefits traditional enterprise throughput
computing applications, such as text indexing. Its threading,
together with its wide-SIMD IEEE-compliant double-precision
support, makes it well positioned for financial analytics, such as
portfolio management. Internal research projects have proven
Larrabee architecture scalability for many traditional high
performance computing (HPC) workloads and well-known HPC
kernels such as 3D-FFT and BLAS3 (with dataset larger than ondie
cache). More details are described by Chen et al. [2008].
7. Conclusions
We have described the Larrabee architecture, which uses multiple
x86-based CPU cores, together with wide vector processor units
and some fixed function logic, to achieve high performance and
flexibility for interactive graphics and other applications. We have
also described a software renderer for the Larrabee architecture
and a variety of other throughput applications, with performance
and scalability analysis for each. Larrabee is more programmable
than current GPUs, with fewer fixed function units, so we believe
that Larrabee is an appropriate platform for the convergence of
GPU and CPU applications.
We believe that this architecture opens a rich set of opportunities
for both graphics rendering and throughput computing. We have
observed a great deal of convergence towards a common core of
computing primitives across the workloads that we analyzed on
Larrabee. This underlying workload convergence [Chen et al.
2008] implies potential for a common programming model, a
common run-time, and a native Larrabee implementation of
common compute kernels, functions, and data structures.
Acknowledgements: The Larrabee project was started by Doug
Carmean and Eric Sprangle, with assistance from many others,
both inside and outside Intel. The authors wish to thank many
people whose hard work made this project possible, as well as
many who helped with this paper. Workload implementation and
data analysis were provided by Jeff Boody, Dave Bookout, Jatin
Chhugani, Chris Gorman, Greg Johnson, Danny Lynch, Oliver
Macquelin, Teresa Morrison, Misha Smelyanskiy, Alexei
Soupikov, and others from Intel?s Application Research Lab,
Software Systems Group, and Visual Computing Group.
References
AKENINE-MÖLLER, T., HAINES, E. 2002. Real-Time Rendering.
2nd Edition. A. K. Peters.
AILA, T., LAINE, S. 2004. Alias-Free Shadow Maps. In
Proceedings of Eurographics Symposium on Rendering 2004,
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ALPERT, D., AVNON, D. 1993. Architecture of the Pentium
Microprocessor. IEEE Micro, v.13, n.3, 11-21. May 1993.
AMD. 2007. Product description web site:
ati.amd.com/products/Radeonhd3800/specs.html.
BADER, A., CHHUGANI, J., DUBEY, P., JUNKINS, S., MORRISON T.,
RAGOZIN, D., SMELYANSKIY. 2008. Game Physics Performance
On Larrabee Architecture. Intel whitepaper, available in
August, 2008. Web site: techresearch.intel.com.
BAVOIL, L., CALLAHAN, S., LEFOHN, A., COMBA, J. SILVA, C. 2007.
Multi-fragment effects on the GPU using the k-buffer. In
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Graphics and Games (Seattle, Washington, April 30 - May 02,
2007). I3D 2007. ACM, New York, NY, 97-104.
BLUMOFE, R., JOERG, C., KUSZMAUL, B., LEISERSON, C., RANDALL,
K., ZHOU, Y. Aug. 25, 1996. Cilk: An Efficient Multithreaded
Runtime System. Journal of Parallel and Distributed
Computing, v. 37, i. 1, 55?69.
BLYTHE, D. 2006. The Direct3D 10 System. ACM Transactions
on Graphics, 25, 3, 724-734.
BOOKOUT, D. July, 2007. Shadow Map Aliasing. Web site:
www.gamedev.net/reference/articles/article2376.asp.
BUCK, I., FOLEY, T., HORN, D., SUGERMAN, J., FATAHALIAN, K.,
HOUSTON, M., AND HANRAHAN, P. 2004. Brook for GPUs:
stream computing on graphics hardware. ACM Transactions on
Graphics, v. 23, n. 3, 777-786.
CALLAHAN, S., IKITS, M., COMBA, J., SILVA, C. 2005. Hardwareassisted
visibility sorting for unstructured volume rendering.
IEEE Transactions on Visualization and Computer Graphics,
11, 3, 285?295
CHANDRA, R., MENON, R., DAGUM, L., KOHR, D, MAYDAN, D.,
MCDONALD, J. 2000. Parallel Programming in OpenMP.
Morgan Kaufman.
CHEN, M., STOLL, G., IGEHY, H., PROUDFOOT, K., HANRAHAN P.
1998. Simple models of the impact of overlap in bucket
rendering. In Proceedings of the ACM SIGGRAPH /
EUROGRAPHICS Workshop on Graphics Hardware (Lisbon,
Portugal, August 31 - September 01, 1998). S. N. Spencer, Ed.
HWWS '98. ACM, New York, NY, 105-112.
CHEN, Y., CHHUGANI, J., DUBEY, P., HUGHES, C., KIM, D., KUMAR,
S., LEE, V., NGUYEN A., SMELYANSKIY, M. 2008. Convergence
of Recognition, Mining, and Synthesis Workloads and its
Implications. In Procedings of IEEE, v. 96, n. 5, 790-807.
CHUVELEV, M., GREER, B., HENRY, G., KUZNETSOV, S., BURYLOV,
I., SABANIN, B. Nov. 2007. Intel Performance Libraries: Multicore
ready Software for Numeric Intensive Computation. Intel
Technology Journal, v. 11, i. 4, 1-10.
COHEN, J., LIN., M., MANOCHA, D., PONAMGI., D. 1995.
I-COLLIDE: An Interactive and Exact Collision Detection
System for Large-Scale Environments. In Proceedings of 1995
Symposium on Interactive 3D Graphics. SI3D '95. ACM, New
York, NY, 189-196.
Larrabee:
 

Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
11,366
2
0
Originally posted by: quadomatic
Whether or not this hardware is groundbreaking or not is not important. If it can compete with the performance lines of cards from ATI and Nvidia, and if Intel uses this sort of design to replace their good processors combined with piece-of-sh!t integrated graphics, then we can see PC gaming expand with more people having the hardware to play games.

If larrabee is everthing Intel claims it doesn't have to beat ATI or NV at traditional games. It just has to be able to play those games . Thats all . If intel gets 6 games at release with larrabee that take advantage of what larrabbee brings it will be great. I personnally am looking forword to Intels own game they will release. If its as good as I think it may be . Look out .

 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
I'd like to see which games these are first and whether or not they are exclusive to larrabee. I am going to guess no big named publisher is going to put their weight behind an architecture this which has almost no market penetration.
 

Janooo

Golden Member
Aug 22, 2005
1,067
13
81
Originally posted by: Genx87
I'd like to see which games these are first and whether or not they are exclusive to larrabee. I am going to guess no big named publisher is going to put their weight behind an architecture this which has almost no market penetration.
Why not if Intel pays for it? They can have Larrabee ready engine on behalf of Intel.
It's just a guess but we won't know any arrangement details.
 

Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
11,366
2
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
I'd like to see which games these are first and whether or not they are exclusive to larrabee. I am going to guess no big named publisher is going to put their weight behind an architecture this which has almost no market penetration.


Please just stop and think for one moment. If Larrabee is good and it does as advertized.

Your missing the BIG picture. Your going off of the present . Larrabee may well represent the future if so when it arrives . SO does a new beginning . an unknown to us.

Heres what we know.

Larrabbee will do modern games Dx11 threw software. We also know it can do raytracing . We also know it is X86. We know its got a huge Vertex unit. We just haven't seen it perform on todays games. To be honest I don't really care how it does on todays games.

We know intel bought a gaming company . We know intel bought Havik We know that intel is working hard on raytracing .

Now to ans this question you asked. In the above quote.

. What big name gaming company isn't banging on intels door to let them in . Knowing what we know. They must know more.


Now for argument sake . Lets suppose that this game company intel bought and havok .
Are putting together that A game that goes everthing Larrabbee can do . God knows Intel has the resources. Just look what they are spending to break into gaming. A new game done new, new arth. Using hybred raster and RT. Could be a smash hit and bring an unknown gaming company to the forfront of gaming . With a hugh head start.

Now let me ask you something . What gaming company can afford to let this happen . Looks to me like its a dice roll and if your at the wrong end of things losses could be hugh .

Yep its a high stakes crap shot where the winner takes all .

By the way AMD can play any game that intel larrabbee can . If AMD gets the compiler right. NV there screwed

The really sweat part is this. Hector new where intels was heading. Thats why Hector bought ATI. Your all going to find out hector was right . But man what a disaster for many .

The sweet thing here is this this . AMD and Intel Have the oppertunity in 2 years to change everthing for the best. Bothing going in the same direction and destanation . But differant roads. I often wonder why intel didn't try to push Itanic onto the desktop other than cost and effciency. But at this time its becoming so clear. Intel didn't push epic on the desk top Because of the compiler hit in performance. To run X86 apps. There forcing amd to use the compiler or be left behind its that simple. In the end EPIC shall rule. But who captons that ship is unknown . If AMD servives the moment . I am betting on them . End the end AMD shall rule EPIC. Its crazy how this is playin out its almost epic. lol. Intel stuck with epic itanic with no software OS . Or apps to run . And in the end the creator of AMD64 needs an EPIC OS with apps to run. This is just epic. AMD going to Intel may we please use your compiler.

AMD's problem intel has shown them and NV the big picture. If intel is right . This changes things not just for NV . But for lots of companies the most noteable would be SONY and Microsoft. If intel is right . both intel and amd can caputure the consol markets . Intel has the lead and advantage. But AMD/ATI is very much in this game where others will be left out in the cold. These consols would be more PC like than one can imagine.

OK microsoft and the rest of the programmers you can run from EPIC but you can't hide. In the end even the energizer bunny shall fall to the consistance of the turtle.

 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,547
1,127
126
Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Originally posted by: Genx87
I'd like to see which games these are first and whether or not they are exclusive to larrabee. I am going to guess no big named publisher is going to put their weight behind an architecture this which has almost no market penetration.


Please just stop and think for one moment. If Larrabee is good and it does as advertized.

Your missing the BIG picture. Your going off of the present . Larrabee may well represent the future if so when it arrives . SO does a new beginning . an unknown to us.

Heres what we know.

Larrabbee will do modern games Dx11 threw software. We also know it can do raytracing . We also know it is X86. We know its got a huge Vertex unit. We just haven't seen it perform on todays games. To be honest I don't really care how it does on todays games.

We know intel bought a gaming company . We know intel bought Havik We know that intel is working hard on raytracing .

Now to ans this question you asked. In the above quote.

. What big name gaming company isn't banging on intels door to let them in . Knowing what we know. They must know more.


Now for argument sake . Lets suppose that this game company intel bought and havok .
Are putting together that A game that goes everthing Larrabbee can do . God knows Intel has the resources. Just look what they are spending to break into gaming. A new game done new, new arth. Using hybred raster and RT. Could be a smash hit and bring an unknown gaming company to the forfront of gaming . With a hugh head start.

Now let me ask you something . What gaming company can afford to let this happen . Looks to me like its a dice roll and if your at the wrong end of things losses could be hugh .

Yep its a high stakes crap shot where the winner takes all .

By the way AMD can play any game that intel larrabbee can . If AMD gets the compiler right. NV there screwed

The really sweat part is this. Hector new where intels was heading. Thats why Hector bought ATI. Your all going to find out hector was right . But man what a disaster for many .

The sweet thing here is this this . AMD and Intel Have the oppertunity in 2 years to change everthing for the best. Bothing going in the same direction and destanation . But differant roads. I often wonder why intel didn't try to push Itanic onto the desktop other than cost and effciency. But at this time its becoming so clear. Intel didn't push epic on the desk top Because of the compiler hit in performance. To run X86 apps. There forcing amd to use the compiler or be left behind its that simple. In the end EPIC shall rule. But who captons that ship is unknown . If AMD servives the moment . I am betting on them . End the end AMD shall rule EPIC. Its crazy how this is playin out its almost epic. lol. Intel stuck with epic itanic with no software OS . Or apps to run . And in the end the creator of AMD64 needs an EPIC OS with apps to run. This is just epic. AMD going to Intel may we please use your compiler.

AMD's problem intel has shown them and NV the big picture. If intel is right . This changes things not just for NV . But for lots of companies the most noteable would be SONY and Microsoft. If intel is right . both intel and amd can caputure the consol markets . Intel has the lead and advantage. But AMD/ATI is very much in this game where others will be left out in the cold. These consols would be more PC like than one can imagine.

OK microsoft and the rest of the programmers you can run from EPIC but you can't hide. In the end even the energizer bunny shall fall to the consistance of the turtle.

Intel isnt going to get into the console market. With all the input Intel has had on DX11, MS and Intel are probably already working on the next Xbox. Considering most expect some sort of prelim showing of the next Xbox next summer, one can put one and one together.

DX11
Larabee
Next Xbox

All will come out in late 2009 to late 2010...

You also have to understand, Intel is under anti trust investigations by both the DoJ, and the EU's equvialent. They wont be able to use their monopoly to bully anyone, without SERIOUS consequences.

And what video game company did they buy?
 

Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
11,366
2
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You know I noticed something about Intel . They have a long memory. Intel know's how MS helped AMD on AMD64.

You can bet intel is working with someone on a gaming consol but I think maybe the Intel sun is shinning vary brightly on Apple. One must rember that if Larrabee can do what its said it can do . This is a new beginning for everyone.

We can't look at this like its just another video card it represents so much more. It does change everthing . If it works as advertized. Make know mistake if Intel gets its oppertunity to stick it to MS . They will and it will be of EPIC size . a measure for a measure.

No Intel isn't playing all that nice with MS. In the end I say the hardware well dictate the software. MS has had it easy things are going to get a lot tuffer with time. With both AMD /INTEL screaming in epic perportions.

http://www.projectoffset.com/technology.php



So your saying if intel pawns all with better tech . They will be destroyed for their endeavor. Is that what your saying . If thats what the world has come to . So be it.

You see its not intel doing the arm twisting . Intel is bringing something new and exciting and the problem is those who will scream because they were left behind. Progress is a step forward if you don't take that step your left behind . As NV will find out.

I hate when people cheerlead for the past. When the future is around the corner.


Seems to me intel doesn't have to imput anything MS. Intel doesn't really need MS on this one . IF larrabbee can do as advirtized. Intel can make available to MS its requirements. If MS uses those specs fine if nor its only road dump for intel . Intel is in the captons seat here . In complete control . Both the software and hardware world know this . After all it is their tech . If you want to join intel and advance the future and grabb a piece of the pie. Its of to those companies ,swim or drown its that simple . Intel isn't twisting any arms . Its their swimming pool follow the rules or go to another pool . Apple is growing stronger and stronger. Intel doesn't have to twist any arms . Dell HP and the other PC venders will do intels light work or be left behind.
 

Cookie Monster

Diamond Member
May 7, 2005
5,161
32
86
I personally think some of you guys are way too optimistic. I can 99% predict intel is going to bleed money at their first attempt. Its just how the market works especially if a company is going to enter an old and very competitive market. Obviously there is alot more involved than this that i could blabber about but basically the kind of move intel is taking (in retrospect to entering the GPU market) is very bold enough to be branded "foolish". Sure they are intel, the largest semiconductor company in todays times but that doesn't mean you can just go in to a market, change their standards and expect software devs to do what you tell them to do and other competitors to follow suit to support such "new" standards. In some fairy tale world that might be possible but in reality its just not going to happen.

 

Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
11,366
2
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You just don't get it . If Larrabee can perform as spect. Its a new industry . Totally new. Why can't you see that . Its not Intel breaking into an old market . Intel is trying to pull off the bigone here. Leaving an old tech to die into something new and exciting.

This changes gaming. It doesn't break into any old tech thats there because it has to be.Maybe won't even perform as well as AMD NV. It doesn't have to . All it has do do is bring something new and exciting. Than the games will be made for Larrabee. Because its new and exciting. All intels has to do is bring out a game that supports everthing larrabbee can do . If the game is a hit . Thats it the future is here in 2009/2010. Everone will fall inline . That how big this is . If its good everthing changes . If it sucks nothing changes.

I remember pong . crysis is to pong what larrabbee is to gaming.

nintendo Wii is a good example of something new slapping better performance around isn't it.
 

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,153
0
0
Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
You just don't get it . If Larrabee can perform as spect. Its a new industry . Totally new. Why can't you see that . Its not Intel breaking into an old market . Intel is trying to pull off the bigone here. Leaving an old tech to die into something new and exciting.

This changes gaming. It doesn't break into any old tech thats there because it has to be.Maybe won't even perform as well as AMD NV. It doesn't have to . All it has do do is bring something new and exciting. Than the games will be made for Larrabee. Because its new and exciting. All intels has to do is bring out a game that supports everthing larrabbee can do . If the game is a hit . Thats it the future is here in 2009/2010. Everone will fall inline . That how big this is . If its good everthing changes . If it sucks nothing changes.

I agree that the technology that Intel is unveiling is a whole new ballgame, if it turns out to be viable. Where I part company with you is in assuming that AMD will get a big piece of that pie, or has any real hope of doing so. The problem here is the concern over Intel eliminating any competition. In case you hadn't noticed, this has been happening for some time on the CPU front. If Intel fails with Larabee, it is no harm and no foul in a sense, but success might not necessarily be so good for the consumer, at least not in the long haul. I'm not exactly rooting against Intel here - I hope they change the technological playing field for the better and that other companies can compete in this new playing field, but I think as consumers we have to look at this development with at least some trepidation.

- woolfe
 

Cookie Monster

Diamond Member
May 7, 2005
5,161
32
86
Yes because its "new" everyone will jump ship right? Why do you think some new games are still DX9 to this day? Isnt DX10 new or exciting enough? Why is windows XP , a very old OS still being used and recommended? hell it sounds like as soon as larrabee is released, everyone will throw away their "old tech" and go buy this "new and exciting" card to play a game that suddenly popped out of know where that supports the cards features. This game your talking about must be like the end of all games, since one title can sway industry standards just like that. Its surprising to see game development time taking less than years now (now in matter of months/days) according to you. Interesting to note that by 2009/2010, we will see SC2, Diablo3, farcry 2 and other titles based on "old tech".

What you forgetting is that technology is always changing. Technology is always moving forward both in the fields of software and hardware. Nobody is sitting on their laurels. Its a financial suicide to do so. And to claim that larrabee is somehow a magical breakthrough like when men discovered fire is being very, very optimistic enough to come off as someone who thinks or even believes that it is just like the second coming of christ.
 

Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
11,366
2
0
With the help of a great compiler ATI can do anything larrabbee can do. Just a lot slower . This is were intel was brillant . They put the Epic yoke around AMDs nick.

You have to admit its poetic justic.
 

Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
11,366
2
0
Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
Yes because its "new" everyone will jump ship right? Why do you think some new games are still DX9 to this day? Isnt DX10 new or exciting enough? Why is windows XP , a very old OS still being used and recommended? hell it sounds like as soon as larrabee is released, everyone will throw away their "old tech" and go buy this "new and exciting" card to play a game that suddenly popped out of know where that supports the cards features. This game your talking about must be like the end of all games, since one title can sway industry standards just like that. Its surprising to see game development time taking less than years now (now in matter of months/days) according to you. Interesting to note that by 2009/2010, we will see SC2, Diablo3, farcry 2 and other titles based on "old tech".

What you forgetting is that technology is always changing. Technology is always moving forward both in the fields of software and hardware. Nobody is sitting on their laurels. Its a financial suicide to do so. And to claim that larrabee is somehow a magical breakthrough like when men discovered fire is being very, very optimistic enough to come off as someone who thinks or even believes that it is just like the second coming of christ.


Ya just don't get it . DX11 DX 12 DX13 it just doesn't matter. Intel will be able to do it all the old way . . Its what Intel will beable to do others can't . This is a change not sutle this will be an explosion. Like way back in the beginning.

The true BIG BANG?