Intel keeps up the unethical SDP scam with “new” 4.5W parts [S|A]

[NTMBK]

Conclusion:
both Intel and AMD pull these kind of tricks and respective fanboy's defend and attack respectively (given their favorite brand)

You guys are funny, most of you need trash those branded colored lenses and see things from a different perspective. This is really bad.

Alternatively, we could criticise both companies when we try to pull this kind of crap. Pointing out when a company does wrong does not make one a fanboy.

 

[galego]

Problem is, Anand is just 1 site. As it has been shown, the mayority just blatantly ignored the SDP part of the 4.5w claim.

Lastly, how can we as a consumer determine it's false advertising when the spec we are shown is actually invented by the very manufacturer that is trying to sell us the product? How Intel determines that below 6W SDP the SoC is fanless-ready or not, when the spec is based in ambiguous terms? Why Intel doesnt choose to show TDP, which actually is proven to indicate when a SoC can be used in X thermal envelope?

You see, it's not as straightfoward as you paint it to be, and the picture gets even worse when we see this kind of bull from a company trying to break through the tablet market. Imagine what kind of deceiving would the tech community and the consumers be exposed to if Intel actually dominated this market? Oh wait, we have x86 to see how it would be like :awe:


EDIT: To the post above, those tablet ready SKUs are advertised with their turbo speed too, and not their base one. Neither they mention how horribly crippled they are in regards of instruction sets.

My opinion is that 99% of sites blatantly ignored the SDP part of the 4.5w claim, because are reproducing the news report that they received. Or that or there exists a worldwide conspiracy involving hundred of independent sites that agreed on eliminate the SDP term from the headlines. :awe:

Regarding turbo, just to add that the difference is not of 0.3GHz as in sites that advertised the 9590 by turbo.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=34472625&postcount=103

My only problem with Intel and this SDP story is the following,

Almost every modern CPU can be 7W SDP today, you just choose the right work load

Effectively, and as reported in the OP links, you are not allowed to ask details about the definition of SDP and how is measured.

 

[galego]

Same reason they heavily advertised the benefits of their "3D transistors" to a bunch of people who don't even know what a semiconductor is let alone how the outdated 2D transistors worked.

This has nothing to do with consumers, or even OEMs.

This has everything to do with increasing the perceived resale value of Intel's primary SKU of concern - INTC

And if you happen to be an individual with INTC holdings then you appreciate that Intel's business leaders are doing what they can to increase the resale value of your asset.

The term "stock market bubble" comes to my mind.

 

[Mushkins]

My opinion is that 99% of sites blatantly ignored the SDP part of the 4.5w claim, because are reproducing the news report that they received. Or that or there exists a worldwide conspiracy involving hundred of independent sites that agreed on eliminate the SDP term from the headlines. :awe:

You forgot about option 3, which is honestly the most likely candidate here: lazy journalism and blogspam.

It's not Intel's fault that all these sleazy tech blogs either A) didnt do their research or B) intentionally left out SDP to make the headline more catchy (aka clickbait) to drive more pageviews. The reputable tech sites all seem to do a pretty good job of mentioning that its SDP, not TDP.

Whether or not SDP is a relevant and meaningful metric to judge a processor by is another argument entirely

 

[LegSWAT]

wondering whose butt is hurt after such a defensive post but by all means continue rationalizing this as a honest marketing.

Marketing is never honest - by definition!

 

[galego]

You forgot about option 3, which is honestly the most likely candidate here: lazy journalism and blogspam.

It's not Intel's fault that all these sleazy tech blogs either A) didnt do their research or B) intentionally left out SDP to make the headline more catchy (aka clickbait) to drive more pageviews. The reputable tech sites all seem to do a pretty good job of mentioning that its SDP, not TDP.

Whether or not SDP is a relevant and meaningful metric to judge a processor by is another argument entirely

As stated in the links given in #1, everything started when Intel advertised SDP numbers at CES, intentionally leaving out the term "SDP". A pair of quotes and one image:

At an Intel event in September, the company promised that we'd see 10W Ivy Bridge chips, and the world mistakenly believed that Intel was still referring to TDP. At the time, there was no other common metric.

Yesterday, we discovered that Intel had exaggerated about how powerful and efficient its latest low-voltage processors could be

 

[Idontcare]

The term "stock market bubble" comes to my mind.

When stocks trade at multiples to their earnings, is it anything but a bubble?

I know I can't claim my net worth as being multiples of my annual salary. But if I were a publicly held business then I could/would be.

 

[Gikaseixas]

Alternatively, we could criticise both companies when we try to pull this kind of crap. Pointing out when a company does wrong does not make one a fanboy.

Agree with you but here you have the intel mob vs the AMD mob. It's always the same guys that defend intel or AMD even when they know their team really messed up.

 

[VirtualLarry]

What makes 11.5W any more real than 4.5W?

How often do you operate your CPU at its spec'ed TDP?

What number is more relevant to you, the spec'ed TDP that is rarely visited by your processor or the number that is more reflective of the power used by your CPU in the everyday application environment that it actually experiences?

I do distributed computing, so for me, TDP is much more important than some fraudulent / purely-hypothetical SDP number.

 

[Atreidin]

Why else create a new label that differs by only one letter other than to invite misinformation?

Exactly. They are playing off of the psychological responses people have to established patterns. People are used to the advertised power rating being TDP. They know that since people aren't used to it, SDP won't be added consistently to headlines, and the times when it isn't omitted, most people wouldn't know the difference anyway.

In the strictest sense, they didn't do anything wrong, but come on, this is essentially designed to be confusing. They have really smart people there, I find it highly unlikely that the confusion is accidental. Based on their corporate culture and history, though, I'm not surprised. Also just because what you're doing isn't technically wrong doesn't mean it is a nice way to treat people, and people tend to react badly to deception once they realize it is happening.

Yes, people "should" pay more attention, but it is exhausting being on guard against constant deception everywhere. Nobody can detect all deception, all the time, without turning into a state of hyper-vigilance, which is no fun to be in, especially when you get to that state of mind and find out you still miss things. It would be nice to not have to be on guard against deception for mundane details like power consumption. I guess I can dream.

 

[monstercameron]

I do distributed computing, so for me, TDP is much more important than some fraudulent / purely-hypothetical SDP number.

From what I gathered, the spd numbers are for mobile workloads so I dont think that distributed computing was in cards for the spec.

 

[VirtualLarry]

As patently obvious, the TDP-style desktop numbers are sort of useless for application in tablets/phones. Hence why ARM doesn't really disclose that type of information. You're not going to load a tablet with something like Prime or IBT, it's just not that kind of device (perhaps in a few years that will change).

"Not going to load a tablet with something like Prime95"

Are you aware, that there is now a BOINC (distributed computing) client for Android, and that IBM's World Community Grid runs on it now too? IOW, there ARE programs like Prime95 that run on cell phones and tablets.

Which further proves that SDP is nothing more than marketing horseshit.

Edit: Look, my desktop Sandy Bridge G630 is 5W SDP. (*)

(*) When web browsing only.

 

[Sweepr]

I do distributed computing, so for me, TDP is much more important than some fraudulent / purely-hypothetical SDP number.

Would you do distributed computing on a fanless tablet with this 4.5W SDP chip inside?

 

[insertcarehere]

"Not going to load a tablet with something like Prime95"

Are you aware, that there is now a BOINC (distributed computing) client for Android, and that IBM's World Community Grid runs on it now too? IOW, there ARE programs like Prime95 that run on cell phones and tablets.

Which further proves that SDP is nothing more than marketing horseshit.

Just because there are such apps on tablets/smartphones doesn't mean that this is anywhere near common or representative of regular use cases for such tablets/smartphones.

 

[SOFTengCOMPelec]

"Not going to load a tablet with something like Prime95"

Are you aware, that there is now a BOINC (distributed computing) client for Android, and that IBM's World Community Grid runs on it now too? IOW, there ARE programs like Prime95 that run on cell phones and tablets.

Which further proves that SDP is nothing more than marketing horseshit.

Edit: Look, my desktop Sandy Bridge G630 is 5W SDP. (*)

(*) When web browsing only.

I win, I win, I win.

My phone is miles better than yours.

My WSO(*) is only 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000001 picoWatts!

(W.S.O.(*) = When Switched Off, and the battery taken out)

Maybe Intel need to create a new physics unit.
The IW, or Intel Watt.
One normal Physics S.I. Watt = 0.000001 Intel Watts
Which has resulted in the entire range of Intel chips, getting a massive 1,000,000x improvement in power consumption.

EDIT: This post is not trying to attack anyone on these forums, it is a JOKE, aimed fairly and squarely at Intel. Once you start creating new units of measure, which show your products in a wonderful new light, which existing measures would not, you are going down a potentially dangerous path of beginning to try to pull the wool over customers eyes.

 

[ShintaiDK]

"Not going to load a tablet with something like Prime95"

Are you aware, that there is now a BOINC (distributed computing) client for Android, and that IBM's World Community Grid runs on it now too? IOW, there ARE programs like Prime95 that run on cell phones and tablets.

Which further proves that SDP is nothing more than marketing horseshit.

Edit: Look, my desktop Sandy Bridge G630 is 5W SDP. (*)

(*) When web browsing only.

Is that like when the FX chips that runs out of spec when presented with an equal load? Only AMD calls it TDP instead of SDP. And do you remember something called ACP?

 

[kimmel]

People are used to the advertised power rating being TDP.

Funny, the people I know couldn't tell you what TDP is at all and almost everyone buying phones and tablets have never known what the TDP of their phone or tablet chips are.


I ask again, why do people care about having a number which is poorly defined when they have not cared about having no number at all?

 

[Arkaign]

Is that like when the FX chips that runs out of spec when presented with an equal load? Only AMD calls it TDP instead of SDP. And do you remember something called ACP?

Don't expect an honest answer. The trolls are strong with this one.

Distributed computing on a tablet or phone? What % of people do that? .000001% of mobile users?

Yes, I *HATE* battery life, I want my android or iphone to completely suck its battery dry in an hour, or have it sit there cooking while charging all night long, all for numbers that are pathetic compared to even a netbook. No thanks.

 

[Arkaign]

Funny, the people I know couldn't tell you what TDP is at all and almost everyone buying phones and tablets have never known what the TDP of their phone or tablet chips are.


I ask again, why do people care about having a number which is poorly defined when they have not cared about having no number at all?

Because they can bash a company they dislike? But of course

The number is easy to understand, Anand summarized it easily in a few sentences.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Don't expect an honest answer. The trolls are strong with this one.

Distributed computing on a tablet or phone? What % of people do that? .000001% of mobile users?

Yes, I *HATE* battery life, I want my android or iphone to completely suck its battery dry in an hour, or have it sit there cooking while charging all night long, all for numbers that are pathetic compared to even a netbook. No thanks.

Not to mention ARM devices already overheat on their own. :biggrin:

The SDP and TDP of these CPUs only matters to OEMs.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Funny, the people I know couldn't tell you what TDP is at all and almost everyone buying phones and tablets have never known what the TDP of their phone or tablet chips are.


I ask again, why do people care about having a number which is poorly defined when they have not cared about having no number at all?

Exactly, I sort of said the same thing already. Most phone and tablet buyers, I would guess, dont even know what chip is in the device much less what its TDP or SDP or XYZ is. The performance of the product will tell the tale. If it runs hot, has short battery life and slow performance, the marketplace will not accept it, if it performs great, then it will be a success.

 

[Soleron]

When stocks trade at multiples to their earnings, is it anything but a bubble?

I know I can't claim my net worth as being multiples of my annual salary. But if I were a publicly held business then I could/would be.

What? If a company was only worth its annual earnings, people would buy it for a year and a half, make back their investment and a half, buy something bigger, repeat. It has to be high enough so that you'd need to own the company for 5-10 years to make back its price and thus have to plan for the long term etc.

Sportpeople are worth multiples of their annual salary if a firm was buying their contract out. Your net worth is considered to be a salary multiple when considering your ability to pay back a mortgage. And so on.

 

[zsdersw]

Oh, these First-World problems...

 

[galego]

Maybe Intel need to create a new physics unit.
The IW, or Intel Watt.
One normal Physics S.I. Watt = 0.000001 Intel Watts
Which has resulted in the entire range of Intel chips, getting a massive 1,000,000x improvement in power consumption.

EDIT: This post is not trying to attack anyone on these forums, it is a JOKE, aimed fairly and squarely at Intel. Once you start creating new units of measure, which show your products in a wonderful new light, which existing measures would not, you are going down a potentially dangerous path of beginning to try to pull the wool over customers eyes.

I enjoyed this joke, but it is more amazing when compared to the existing Intel nanometer

Intel nanometre = 1.182 nanometres

http://www.electronicsweekly.com/mannerisms/general/the-intel-nanometre-2013-02/

Distributed computing on a tablet or phone? What % of people do that? .000001% of mobile users?

Experience shows that what was the 0.000001% yesterday is the mainstream today.

 

[AnandThenMan]

This is very clever marketing by Intel, and also very dishonest. They know full well that people will look at the number and associate with other power draw numbers, just the number.