Intel Ivy Bridge 22nm Speculation thread

[toyota]

One good thing about consoles slowing down graphics progress is that it allows integrated stuff to catch up. An 18EU ivy bridge graphics option will actually run a game at decent framerates at mid-settings imo which is amazing engineering considering how much power they cram into a small space

graphics progress hasn't slowed down at all because of the consoles. both AMD and Nvidia are both making high end gpus that are as good as they can be.

 

[IntelUser2000]

I wonder how the original rumors that Ivy Bridge's graphics would have 24 EUs occured in the first place? I'd put Anand's claims that it'll have 16 EUs as much more concrete.

Let's see...

They saw the presentation that claims graphics performance would be 2x. So they logically conclude that it needs 2x the EUs, 12x2 = 24EUs.

But when have they ever doubled EU count? Never.

G965=8EU
G35/GM35=8EU
G45/GM45=10EU
Arrandale/Clarkdale=12EU
Sandy Bridge=12EU

They only increased it by 20-25% if they did. Increasing it 33% to 16 would be a record. :sneaky:

 

[ydnas7]

looking at the 4 core die of SB, it really looks like an extra row (4 EUs) could be added without increasing die are. (but that would not neatly work with the 2 core SB)

doubling from 12 to 24 would be different, it kinda depends on what intel thought of fusion 4 years ago...

Lynnfield -> 'dales/westmere brought an core count increase in the high end and packaging changes in the low end.
If the same holds for SandyBridge, then the server may get more cores/cache, the client (1155) may get on package 512bit wide LDDR 2 video memory. this also could be used for differentiating laptop from desktop parts.

 

[ydnas7]

Sandybridge 12EU graphics is sufficient for playing console games at native laptop resolution. Bump up to 16 EU graphics with some frequency increases and on package memory, and playing console games at HD becomes possible (at console quality settings)

but Intels target is not desktop games, its laptop graphics that it cares about.

 

[IntelUser2000]

looking at the 4 core die of SB, it really looks like an extra row (4 EUs) could be added without increasing die are. (but that would not neatly work with the 2 core SB)

Could you point out how you could do that? There doesn't seem to be any space except at the empty space at the bottom of the GPU core, and that won't make sense.

Lynnfield -> 'dales/westmere brought an core count increase in the high end and packaging changes in the low end.
If the same holds for SandyBridge, then the server may get more cores/cache, the client (1155) may get on package 512bit wide LDDR 2 video memory. this also could be used for differentiating laptop from desktop parts.

The server needs the on package RAM even more than client chips do. They can benefit so much from the much increased bandwidth, while client chips can't, unless talking about integrated graphics.

 

[ydnas7]

why doesn't that empty space at the bottom of gpu core make sense? it looked to me like it was left available for a 3rd channel of memory (that was never needed) or to ease parallel development of the 2 core SB. However, doing some photochopping, take the gpu section, drop it down into that empty space and there comes up sufficient room at the top of gpu section to take another row EUs. so the die could take 16 EUs.

 

[AtenRa]

12-16MB L3 Shared Cache for both CPU cores as well for the (16?) EUs like SB ??

 

[IntelUser2000]

why doesn't that empty space at the bottom of gpu core make sense? it looked to me like it was left available for a 3rd channel of memory (that was never needed) or to ease parallel development of the 2 core SB. However, doing some photochopping, take the gpu section, drop it down into that empty space and there comes up sufficient room at the top of gpu section to take another row EUs. so the die could take 16 EUs.

Maybe you are right. I'm expecting some significant enhancements on the GPU side though, that wouldn't make the GPU core exactly the same just moved down. But maybe they can do it anyway, since scaling factor of CPU core and SRAMs are different.

 

[Mopetar]

I wonder how the original rumors that Ivy Bridge's graphics would have 24 EUs occured in the first place? I'd put Anand's claims that it'll have 16 EUs as much more concrete.

Let's see...

They saw the presentation that claims graphics performance would be 2x. So they logically conclude that it needs 2x the EUs, 12x2 = 24EUs.

But when have they ever doubled EU count? Never.

G965=8EU
G35/GM35=8EU
G45/GM45=10EU
Arrandale/Clarkdale=12EU
Sandy Bridge=12EU

They only increased it by 20-25% if they did. Increasing it 33% to 16 would be a record. :sneaky:

It's also possible that they'll be working on improving the performance of each EU as well. They'll probably add some for a certainty, but I'd be much happier if they focused on improving performance and adding support for DX11. That and getting their driver issues sorted out would be helpful.

 

[Ajay]

It's also possible that they'll be working on improving the performance of each EU as well. They'll probably add some for a certainty, but I'd be much happier if they focused on improving performance and adding support for DX11. That and getting their driver issues sorted out would be helpful.

I'm 99% sure that I read Ivy Bridge will be DX11 - I just can't remember where.

 

[Mopetar]

I'm 99% sure that I read Ivy Bridge will be DX11 - I just can't remember where.

Yup, looks like you're right. IB will have DX11 according to this article.

 

[Dadofamunky]

Sheesh, I can't believe the speed of what I have now, especially after throwing in an SSD and loading Windows in under ten seconds. Something even BETTER? Creamy soft goodness.

 

[wuliheron]

Intel has announced they have a version of ivy bridge that includes a cpu, gpu, and 1gb vram ALL ON THE SAME CHIP with roughly the bandwidth of a radeon 5770. For the immediate future this means cheaper and better portable graphics solutions. To put this into perspective, India is currently working on producing the first $35.oo tablet and sometime within the next five to ten years I expect to see a cheap tablet that can also run 3D games fairly well.

For those of us who are pc gaming enthusiasts the switch to faster 8 core processors means better physics and AI. These types of programs are highly symmetrical and lend themselves to 8, 16, 32, etc. cores that can run full blown matrices. Already there are a few games on the market such as Metro 2033 that take advantage of an arbitrary number of cores. However, reducing such equations to run well on a mere 4 cores is difficult and, therefore, the more cores the easier it becomes to produce great special effects. Hopefully it will mean a resurgence in pc gaming as people demand better special effects in their games instead of just pretty pictures.

 

[PreferLinux]

intel has announced they have a version of ivy bridge that includes a cpu, gpu, and 1gb vram all on the same chip with roughly the bandwidth of a radeon 5770. for the immediate future this means cheaper and better portable graphics solutions. To put this into perspective, india is currently working on producing the first $35.oo tablet and sometime within the next five to ten years i expect to see a cheap tablet that can also run 3d games fairly well.

For those of us who are pc gaming enthusiasts the switch to faster 8 core processors means better physics and ai. These types of programs are highly symmetrical and lend themselves to 8, 16, 32, etc. Cores that can run full blown matrices. Already there are a few games on the market such as metro 2033 that take advantage of an arbitrary number of cores. However, reducing such equations to run well on a mere 4 cores is difficult and, therefore, the more cores the easier it becomes to produce great special effects. Hopefully it will mean a resurgence in pc gaming as people demand better special effects in their games instead of just pretty pictures.

Where???

 

[Vette73]

Intel has announced they have a version of ivy bridge that includes a cpu, gpu, and 1gb vram ALL ON THE SAME CHIP with roughly the bandwidth of a radeon 5770. For the immediate future this means cheaper and better portable graphics solutions. To put this into perspective, India is currently working on producing the first $35.oo tablet and sometime within the next five to ten years I expect to see a cheap tablet that can also run 3D games fairly well.

For those of us who are pc gaming enthusiasts the switch to faster 8 core processors means better physics and AI. These types of programs are highly symmetrical and lend themselves to 8, 16, 32, etc. cores that can run full blown matrices. Already there are a few games on the market such as Metro 2033 that take advantage of an arbitrary number of cores. However, reducing such equations to run well on a mere 4 cores is difficult and, therefore, the more cores the easier it becomes to produce great special effects. Hopefully it will mean a resurgence in pc gaming as people demand better special effects in their games instead of just pretty pictures.

Yea I am calling shens on that

 

[Mopetar]

Even if it has the memory bandwidth of a 5770, I somehow doubt it will have anywhere near the performance. It would solve the issues with limited memory bandwidth for APUs without adding more memory channels.

 

[wuliheron]

Google really is your friend:

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Inte...-chip-Graphics-Memory-Rumors-Say-175481.shtml

They've basically figured out how to add a layer of vram on top of everything else. This first attempt is ddr2, but they're using a 512 bit system to increase the bandwidth. No doubt it will take awhile for the technology to mature, but it implies big changes in the not so distant future.

 

[PreferLinux]

Intel has announced they have a version of ivy bridge that includes a cpu, gpu, and 1gb vram ALL ON THE SAME CHIP with roughly the bandwidth of a radeon 5770.

Google really is your friend:

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Intel-Ivy-Bridge-to-Feature-as-Much-as-1GB-On-chip-Graphics-Memory-Rumors-Say-175481.shtml

They've basically figured out how to add a layer of vram on top of everything else. This first attempt is ddr2, but they're using a 512 bit system to increase the bandwidth. No doubt it will take awhile for the technology to mature, but it implies big changes in the not so distant future.

Since when is a rumor on Semiaccurate "Intel has announced"???????

You know what? I read that at the source the day that came out. I guessed that was what you were referring to!

 

[cbn]

Google really is your friend:

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Inte...-chip-Graphics-Memory-Rumors-Say-175481.shtml

They've basically figured out how to add a layer of vram on top of everything else. This first attempt is ddr2, but they're using a 512 bit system to increase the bandwidth. No doubt it will take awhile for the technology to mature, but it implies big changes in the not so distant future.

That article is mentioning "on package" DRAM (which would stack the DRAM next to the Ivy bridge SOC under the heatspreader).

But it would seem to me that "die stacked DRAM" would be the next step. This possibly on a CPU/GPU built on Intel's special low leakage silicon to control heat.

 

[tweakboy]

It doesnt seem like a big technology leap or is it just me. Its essentially going to pretty much be as fast as the current Sandy 2600k We need more cores at this point. Mhz doesnt do it.

Plenty of multithreaded apps people out there use. like

Games
Video Editing
Audio Engineering
DAW

 

[OCGuy]

It doesnt seem like a big technology leap or is it just me. Its essentially going to pretty much be as fast as the current Sandy 2600k We need more cores at this point. Mhz doesnt do it.

Plenty of multithreaded apps people out there use. like

Games
Video Editing
Audio Engineering
DAW

No thanks, give me faster/more efficient clocks.

As the AMD X6 proves, > 4 cores doesn't mean much right now.

 

[wuliheron]

That article is mentioning "on package" DRAM (which would stack the DRAM next to the Ivy bridge SOC under the heatspreader).

But it would seem to me that "die stacked DRAM" would be the next step. This possibly on a CPU/GPU built on Intel's special low leakage silicon to control heat.

Exactly, it's just under the heat spreader and completely new territory and just begs for further improvement.

My point is this is the natural evolution we can expect in the next few years. The current push is for portables which means moving everything but system RAM and storage onto one chip and, evidently, 22nm is up to the job. Intel is so confident of the demand for their 22nm products that they decided to build a fourth fabrication facility at cost of billions.

 

[wuliheron]

It doesnt seem like a big technology leap or is it just me. Its essentially going to pretty much be as fast as the current Sandy 2600k We need more cores at this point. Mhz doesnt do it.

Plenty of multithreaded apps people out there use. like

Games
Video Editing
Audio Engineering
DAW

It doesn't mean they'll stop putting more cores on some chips, merely that your average home computer will become smaller, cheaper, and more powerful as always. That includes the ability to upgrade your graphics by merely installing a new chip or adding a second one for crossfire/sli.

 

[Edrick]

It doesnt seem like a big technology leap or is it just me. Its essentially going to pretty much be as fast as the current Sandy 2600k We need more cores at this point. Mhz doesnt do it.

Intel could put 8 atom cores running at low speeds on a single die and you would think it is the greatest thing ever. Just because you have no technical concept of anything other "more cores".

 

[Mopetar]

No thanks, give me faster/more efficient clocks.

As the AMD X6 proves, > 4 cores doesn't mean much right now.

Really depends on what you're trying to do with them. Most encoding or rendering jobs scale quite well with an increase in the number of cores. If you all you want to do is game, you can probably get by with fewer than 4 cores, but that doesn't mean more cores can't be useful. Better AI is something that a lot of gamers are pushing for and more CPU cores is going to allow for more AI threads.

Quite frankly I'd like faster/more efficient clocks across more cores.