Intel fans: Word on Intel's plans for new PIII's

[Zephyr]

NOS

Wow arn't we feeling special?

I comment on AMD vs Intel issues whenever I see someone post something i disagree with.

 

[BG]

Dear Nos,

I've wrote to you some time ago about the AMD quality thing. I still use an AMD system myself, mine is still the old K7M with 800 Classic 0.18 um, without a single new installation since november 1999. I sell Celerons and PIII's to (old)ladies and divorced women and Athlons, now Durons cq Thunderbirds, to old men and youngsters. Never have any problems with them. I think Intel is old technology, now they go back to 0.13 um PIII's just for panic reasons, AMD is all the time innovating CPU's and chipsets, so what are you talking about? Intel is for conservative people who don't dare to innovate and stick to old proven ways at the least effort possible (lazy?) and loose exitement in new technology. I am a 51 year old electronic engineer and am happy AMD is here to compete, that's all. Enjoy life.

 

[NOS440]

I don't hate AMD just don't think it a very well supported product. I couldn't get it to fly its more like no one can get it to fly. At mad onion with my P-3 setup I'm always in the top 5 for scores at 3Dmark 2000 and P-3s rule the top ten period mark. The Athlon is great at raw power processing but raw power isn't everything. You have to actively promote your product and compilers to make it work with the software period.

 

[NOS440]

Well if AMD is so innovative then why aren't they beating up on the "Old Technogies" of the P-3 by a large margin. AMD chipset Innovation is a joke they still havn't released one worth a dam for the Athlon and thats a fact.

 

[NOS440]

Also if you want to talk windows install here. I'm currently on the same install of windows since I bought my athlon last year. Its had about 6 motherboard changes from VIA, AMD, Intel you name it and it still smokes so I don't see where that means anything.

 

[Captain Ginyu]

Nos440: Please shutup and go away. AMD cpus are just as high quality as intel cpus. Haha you believe agp 4x makes video cards much faster? Proves how much computer knowledge you have. The t-bird is superior the coppermine in everyway. You're very intel biased. I'm an intel owner and I know that amd products are superior. Go away unless you can back up your statements.

 

[BG]

Dear Nos,

Is 3Dmark2000 the end of the line? There is more to life than 3Dmark2000. Did'nt the K6/III loose on points with FPU from the PIII? Why is it that since the Athlon came out raw FPU power suddenly lost interest? Really strange! I've build Celly's and PIII's and K7's all the time but the Intel's just gave as many minor prob's as the AMD's. If you know HOW TO PROPERLY INSTALL AN AMD SYSTEM, it's an absolutely peace of cake to do it, just like a PIII system. There will always be minor glitches.
It is just a bit more time consuming to load several drivers for the AMD system. The Duron is absolutely fantastic to use with a Soltek or Asus mobo. ( I only use these two brands, I lost faith in Abit with the Celly's, too many RMA's) Intel is nice, so is AMD!

 

[Captain Ginyu]

Do you play 3dmark uh no! Its must use alot more sse than 3dnow. The reason you dont see amd far ahead intel is because the benchmarks use bx133 platforms. AMD has released a superior processor and met the demand whereas intel couldent.

 

[Insane3D]

NOS440- First off, I have a 1ghz Athlon system with AGP 4x, sideband, fast writes enabled. I also have a Geforce with stock cooling that is overclocking nicely at 150/350 on my "unstable" Athlon set-up. I am sure you think your P3 set-up is the latest and greatest, and I have no doubt it is really fast. But, here's the thing. First, the Athlon K7 core is a 7th Generation CPU that is easily scalable up to 1.5ghz in it's current architecture, without any modifications such as a .13micron Fab process. The P3 on the other hand is a 6th generation CPU, IE "older design", and without going to a smaller .13micron fab process, would be topped out at 1.1 or so. You also speak about the Athlon's inability to reach high FSB levels like the P3. This is correct, except you forgot that the FSB on a Athlon is a DDR bus, which means it has a 200mhz effective speed. An Athlon even in a non-overclocked state has a FSB that is 50mhz faster than a o/c coppermine at 150mhz. The only reason it can't be ramped much past 120 is because the supporting components of today's motherboards can't handle the speed of the bus and the complex power requirements of the EV6 bus...that is why when the DDR capable chipsets come out, this will be less of a problem. Also, when the Mustang is released you will have a CPU with a 200mhz FSB (266 maybe), 512kb of on-die full speed cache, and a L1 cache twice the size of the current P3's... I am somebody that looks at facts before I make a decision about something, and when I looked at the facts, it looks like the Athlon and Duron are more advanced to me...Just my .02.

 

[DataFly]

Dont forget that the Intel brand name carries a lot of weight with some less saavy consumers, enough to prevent them from buying a more powerful and cheaper computer that does not have "Intel Inside."

 

[Mikewarrior2]

dude, the cracking is not a crap quality issue for either company.. From what i've seen, Duron's also crack if the heatsink is mounted improperly or with incorrect pressure.

Both companies make good chips. It isn't like Intel chips aren't good. I personally recommend Duron's, but I like my P3 as well.



Mike

 

[NOS440]

when did I ever say AGP4X is much faster. But I'll tell you what I will say its much faster than 1x which is what the AMD750 chipset will reliable work at. I never said that the Athlon was low quality I said it lacks the support needed to work to its full potential. Why is that anytime someone states there oppinion that isn't rosey toward AMD that you AMD Loving trolls have to start personally attacking that person. Sounds like you guy's are a bunch of babies to me.

Insane3D if you would like to compare scores in any 3d game like Quake 3 or any other recent game that supports both 3Dnow and SSE I would be more than happy to make you look stupid with your lame 1ghz athlon.
This is what I'm talking about if we were to do such a thing the Athlon beig a faster processor would lose. Because it is not properly supported in the real world and that all I'm saying. Over all Intel still has AMD beat. This may not last much longer though.

As far as this wonderful EV Bus if its so great than why is the Athlon isn't mopping up the floor and Putting the old P-3 to rest. I will tell you why the ev bus on the athlon is a joke that isn't even being used in any real way at all.

Before the t-bird finally came out everyone said wait till the Athlon has on die L-2 it will kick the P-3 butt. Well when is it going to do it. Its a whopping 1 to 2% faster over all big deal and then that in stuff the normal user would never use.

 

[Insane3D]

NOS440- I am confused with your reply, you say when you post your opinion us "AMD loving trolls" start personal attacks. How did I attack you?. Well, if you look at my response I said nothing inflammatory to you and I even said I knew your system was fast. You seem to be very defensive. I am not really interested and getting in a fight over 3D Mark scores because I rarely use that program. I mainly used it to test stability. I didn't build this system to get higher 3D Mark scores, I built it to use. You seem to spend alot of time on what your 3dmark scores are, so maybe you are one of those guys that just builds PC's to say they have the highest score. If so, more power you. I am interested in real world performance on MY system, not benchmarks scores of someone else's. If you think your super special P3 system is better, fine... Maybe you will "whip the pants off me" in 3D Mark scores, but I really don't care. I was just correcting some incorrect statements you made regarding Athlon systems. If you are offended by that then you have a problem. As I said before, I look at facts regarding the core technology of a product I am considering buying, not someone's 3D Mark scores or their framerate in Q3. I guess I am just "afraid" of your kick *ss Pentium system, so you win by default. You are officially the fastest, now you can go tell everyone how cool you are. NOS440 Rulez!! Maybe you should just relax and enjoy your fast sytem instead of always worrying about what you get for scores. I gave up that "mine is better than yours" crap when I graduated from high school...

 

[NOS440]

Man I have to say your right you really didn't say anything bad to me. I read all the last bunch and just replied to all of them. the first paragraph wasn't aimed toward you. Sorry if it seemed like it.

What I'm saying to you is if the Athon is such a more advanced system than why is it not whipping the dog out of the p-3 in every app.

I can tell you why AMD doesn't support it fully and doesn't carefully plan out there road map. That is why guy's like me quickly burned out on it. I bought a K7M with Irongate chipset and found it to be a very flaky system. Than I bought a Abit Ka7 and soon found out it wouldn't work with a t-bird. But my 2 1/2 year old Abit BX-6 has a coppermine working in it flawlessly as we speak. The system I use day to day as a VIA 133a Asus board and works flawlessly at 1 ghz. I have the KA6 and 2 Athlon's that No one wants and there less than a year old. I have had dozens of Intel CPU's and Motherboard's and have never gotten stuck with one yet. Hell I paid 160 dollars for my K7M and 3 months later the most I could get for it was 50$. I never ever lost that kind of money on my Intel stuff. To me at this point and time I think AMD is a poor investment and doesn't give any advantage what so ever. That is my Oppinion from my experience with the Athlon.

 

[NOS440]

And I find this last post of yours a very personal attack all I did was say lets compare scores in everyday apps.



"NOS440- I am confused with your reply, you say when you post your opinion us "AMD loving trolls" start personal attacks. How did I attack you?. Well, if you look at my response I said nothing inflammatory to you and I even said I knew your system was fast. You seem to be very defensive. I am not really interested and getting in a fight over 3D Mark scores because I rarely use that program. I mainly used it to test stability. I didn't build this system to get higher 3D Mark scores, I built it to use. You seem to spend alot of time on what your 3dmark scores are, so maybe you are one of those guys that just builds PC's to say they have the highest score. If so, more power you. I am interested in real world performance on MY system, not benchmarks scores of someone else's. If you think your super special P3 system is better, fine... Maybe you will "whip the pants off me" in 3D Mark scores, but I really don't care. I was just correcting some incorrect statements you made regarding Athlon systems. If you are offended by that then you have a problem. As I said before, I look at facts regarding the core technology of a product I am considering buying, not someone's 3D Mark scores or their framerate in Q3. I guess I am just "afraid" of your kick *ss Pentium system, so you win by default. You are officially the fastest, now you can go tell everyone how cool you are. NOS440 Rulez!! Maybe you should just relax and enjoy your fast sytem instead of always worrying about what you get for scores. I gave up that "mine is better than yours" crap when I graduated from high school... "

 

[NOS440]

My last post to this thread. All I want to do is make you all aware of what I said to start this heated discussion. this is my first post to this thread.


"while AMD has come a long way. They are no where near the resources and abilities of Intel. Besides this competition is great look at the progress they have both made in the last year since the Intro of the Athlon. Intel will most likely be Top dog for a long time yet."

 

[Mikewarrior2]

NOS440,

Are you related to Hyper99?




Mike

 

[Insane3D]

NOS440: "And I find this last post of yours a very personal attack all I did was say lets compare scores in everyday apps."

Actually you said, and I quote: "Insane3D if you would like to compare scores in any 3d game like Quake 3 or any other recent game that supports both 3Dnow and SSE I would be more than happy to make you look stupid with your lame 1ghz athlon"

If you just wanted to compare scores, you could have said, "Let's compare scores." But, instead you needed to add something about my "lame 1ghz Athlon" and something about making me "look stupid".

Yes, I did flame you a bit, but that was after you personally attacked me without me doing the same to you. It is actually ironic because you were going to make me "look stupid", but all you really did was make yourself look stupid.

 

[Dexion]

If NOS440 were to check REAL world benchmarks such as 3D rendering in 3DSMAX or Softimage. He will soon find out that the Intel P3 isn't so great in FPU after all.

Nuff said.

 

[ObiDon]

Insane3D,
I forgot about that...A 7th generation AMD that barely outperforms a 6th generation Intel Yeah, I know. Where's that 7th generation Intel? Damn Intel :|


NOS440,
I think the only way you could get a "decent" comparison of the PIII vs. the Athlon/Thunderbird would be to use a benchmarking program that had NO SUPPORT for SSE or 3Dnow! at all! Even then, there's still too many variables caused by different chipsets/motherboards. You just won't be able to isolate the CPUs to make an accurate comparison so it's mostly a pointless debate over which one is "better"


As far as me, I just use whatever is handy and in stock whenever I'm throwing a new system together

 

[Cubexco]

A few thoughts:
If Intel is so good at what they do.....
Why do they have to scramble after every new AMD announcement/availibility and release a new unfindable CPU?
Why do they have the head-buried-in-sand attitude towards PC133 and DDR RAM (smell Rambus here?)
Why does the BX@133 perform better than the newer (better) chipsets?
Why do they use lame commercials like "P-II will make your Internet experience better".

Seems Intel turned into a lazy giant and started believing that the world would believe what it said.

Another example of laziness:
Compare P-III & Celeron-II with T-Bird & Duron.
C-II being a castrated P-III (in terms of cache and FSB) to be in the value market while Duron being it's own design variation of the T-Bird Core with no artificially introduced performance Bottlenecks.

As far as the AMD snafus go.....
Was Intel perfect with it's Pentium core and it's famous bugs? or with the MTH on the 820 chipsets?

So, while no one being perfect, some are braver then others.

 

[KarsinTheHutt]

This article is a fake! Intel has some sort of contract with RAMBUS that prohibits them from making DDR desktop chipsets... at least that's what the Register claims.

 

[Zephyr]

" The 1.4-GHz Pentium III processor can use double-data-rate SDRAM to compete against Athlon desktops and notebooks using the same high-speed memory. But because Intel's agreement with Rambus Inc. to promote Direct Rambus DRAM contractually bars it from making its own DDR-enabled chipsets, Intel will depend on third-party vendors Acer Laboratories, Micron Technology, Silicon Integrated Systems, and Via Technologies to supply the core-logic devices."

 

[Zephyr]

NOS

You seem to be looking for the answer to one quetion in paticular... If the Athlon is so superiour to the P3 why isnøt it mopping the floor with it?

Anyway I'll try to give you an answer. The problem here is the same as always when a new generation cpu cores are launched... they hardly, if at all, beat the existing. Why is that you may ask? Well partly it will be because a new genration cpu will typically feature a lot of new technology which wil be somewhat crude compared to the refined and tweaked older technology. However as time goes by it will mature, it's all part of the lifecycle of a cpu core. Secondly and more important is software optimization. When the PPro first came out it pretty much s*cked for everyday use. This didn't really mean anything to us normal folks because it was reserved for servers and ultra highend workstations anyway. With theAthlon it's different. AMDs customerbase is not the enterprise computing market, but regular Joes like you and I. Therefore they released this new tech directly to us. Now personally this makes AMD a 100times more sympatic company than Intel which seems to give a damn about us normal dumba$$es and feed us with mindless marketing garbage.

Besides AMD could crush Intel as far as preformance goes, simply by just turning up the clock a bit. However this would be a bad business move since Intel already is having problem delivering, and AMD is already selling everything they can produce.

 

[sandorski]

Hehehe, this is too funny. Us k6-x users used to say the same things. Why? Because the k6-x's were just as fast as PII/Celerons for some tasks and, in the case of the k6-3, in some cases much faster!

Although the tables have turned, they are not quite the same when comparing PIII and Athlon. The Athlon is, however, in the superior position. It has youth, a superior mobo bus system, and mhz headroom on it's side. Even if PIII goes 0.13 micron, it may not be able to scale as high as the Athlon on 0.18 micron.(I'm just assuming here)