Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

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511

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Jul 12, 2024
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No independent benchmarks.
Serve the home has one and I would say It's quite underwhelming the nodes can't do anything if your design is that bad.

I thought 9754 was 96C/192T but that is not the case it is 128C/256T these CPUs seems okayish not great vs Zen 5


 
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511

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Big OOF if true. What's PTL's compute tile size again? Trying to understand what the equivalent D0 would be.
The 18A tile size was 114mm2 and this makes the rumor as false for PTL Die if we go by August D0 of 0.4.
How can he survey the industry if the customers are yet to tape out on 18A the only company with working 18A sample is Intel themselves
 

Saylick

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2012
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The 18A tile size was 114mm2 and this makes the rumor as false for PTL Die if we go by August D0 of 0.4.
How can he survey the industry if the customers are yet to tape out on 18A the only company with working 18A sample is Intel themselves
Thanks. Yeah, that's a pretty small die so the yields should be much higher w/ D0 = 0.4.
 
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DavidC1

Golden Member
Dec 29, 2023
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By the way, regarding yields and execution, the last time Intel got a non defeatured/delayed process was 32nm process.

That's right, 32nm was the last generation. Not 22nm. 22nm was delayed 6+ months. I read that there were tremendous yield issues but they pretty much got it fixed at the last minute. 14nm was delayed over a year, but nobody knows that, since 10nm was delayed 3+ years.

14nm likely got delayed for the same reason 10nm did, it was too ambitious. You see, until 22nm, in density wise compared to TSMC, they weren't true 22nm. Intel's 22nm was only about 30% more density compared to TSMC's 28nm. Meaning calling it 24nm would have been more accurate. On 14nm though, they decided to close the gap, only for the sake of mobile, since desktops didn't benefit from it anyway(other than GPU which sucked anyway).

If 22nm was a tremendously difficult step, what do you think happens to execution when you up the difficulty on a shrink of the process when every step gets harder and harder? And on 10nm, they decided to triple down, rather than learning from 22nm/14nm.

When BK got fired, he moved to a much smaller, lesser known company. He was rated similarly terrible by employees on comparably as when he was at Intel.
 

511

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Jul 12, 2024
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By the way, regarding yields and execution, the last time Intel got a non defeatured/delayed process was 32nm process.

That's right, 32nm was the last generation. Not 22nm. 22nm was delayed 6+ months. I read that there were tremendous yield issues but they pretty much got it fixed at the last minute. 14nm was delayed over a year, but nobody knows that, since 10nm was delayed 3+ years.

14nm likely got delayed for the same reason 10nm did, it was too ambitious. You see, until 22nm, in density wise compared to TSMC, they weren't true 22nm. Intel's 22nm was only about 30% more density compared to TSMC's 28nm. Meaning calling it 24nm would have been more accurate. On 14nm though, they decided to close the gap, only for the sake of mobile, since desktops didn't benefit from it anyway(other than GPU which sucked anyway).

If 22nm was a tremendously difficult step, what do you think happens to execution when you up the difficulty on a shrink of the process when every step gets harder and harder? And on 10nm, they decided to triple down, rather than learning from 22nm/14nm.

When BK got fired, he moved to a much smaller, lesser known company. He was rated similarly terrible by employees on comparably as when he was at Intel.
Well the problem was not technical but also fab had less funding as well during Kranzich/Otleni/Swan and the process were glued with tape during the OG 10nm they made several changes to OG 10nm to make it yield well.
The only reason he didn't get fired Sooner is he was licking shareholder's feet if he had been fired sooner and than Pat would have come they wouldn't be in this bad of a position.
 
Jul 27, 2020
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The only reason he didn't get fired Sooner is he was licking shareholder's feet if he had been fired sooner and than Pat would have come they wouldn't be in this bad of a position.
NO

NO NO NO

Jim Keller was the only CEO that could've taken Intel to space and beyond!
 

DavidC1

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Dec 29, 2023
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Well the problem was not technical but also fab had less funding as well during Kranzich/Otleni/Swan and the process were glued with tape during the OG 10nm they made several changes to OG 10nm to make it yield well.
The only reason he didn't get fired Sooner is he was licking shareholder's feet if he had been fired sooner and than Pat would have come they wouldn't be in this bad of a position.
Originally, expected Pat's successor was Sean Maloney. Then he got a stroke and that went out the window, having BK succeed.
 
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Darkmont

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Jul 7, 2023
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The posted slide is old. MLID discussed DMR having 192c with 4 50c tiles back in March 2024. It's now more ambitious than before and looks like Rome like people have been hinting.
 

511

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Jul 12, 2024
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The posted slide is old. MLID discussed DMR having 192c with 4 50c tiles back in March 2024. It's now more ambitious than before and looks like Rome like people have been hinting.
So now it's going to be what ? If I assume they added 1 more tile it would be roughly 250 Cores but it would mess up the layout so they would have to increase Core counts per tile maybe 66-68 core tiles?
 

DavidC1

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Dec 29, 2023
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Awesome, 256 of the sucky P cores in late 2026.

More ambition sounds like an excuse for "We're delayed too much so what we had sucks".
 

DrMrLordX

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Apr 27, 2000
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Ambition is meaningless without execution. If Intel waits too long to release Diamond Rapids, they'll be launching after Venice. Their only hope was to launch BEFORE Venice, but now that's not looking as likely.