Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

[Saylick]

Considering the boards were designed and ready for release many months ago it's genuinely very surprising to see what I can only assume is half baked firmware causing that excessive idle power.

I mean it can't be EMIB causing it, one of the biggest reasons it's even there is because it saves a tonne of power (at a given bandwidth) compared to normal packaging techniques.

Yeah, my first guess would be unnecessarily high idle clocks for the high performance setting.

 

[nicalandia]

Is there any incentive for AMD to release anything Higher than 64 Cores?

 

[Saylick]

Is there any incentive for AMD to release anything Higher than 64 Cores?

Likely not. Any higher and you're looking at people who should be buying a proper server or renting cloud computing me thinks.

 

[Exist50]

Okay I feel stupid, because I thought 18A to start, realised that Lunar Lake is the one that's 18A and that ARL is 20A instead and then wrote 18A anyway

Nope . Pretty sure Lunar Lake is also using N3, and we won't see 18A products till Panther(?) Lake in 2025.

 

[uzzi38]

Nope . Pretty sure Lunar Lake is also using N3, and we won't see 18A products till Panther(?) Lake in 2025.

Wait seriously?

Ugh

 

[nicalandia]

Likely not. Any higher and you're looking at people who should be buying a proper server or renting cloud computing me thinks.

I agree, a Decently clocked 64C/128T Zen4 based ThreadRipper will just manhandle the 3495X and there is nothing Emerald Rapids based Xeons can do about it.(stuck with the same lithography process, 64 cores and same Mesh Interconnect) These Xeons are 2019 Tech trying to beat a 2023 tech.

 

[nicalandia]

So basically with the power limits removed, i.e. not really "stock". I would say it's out of the box performance rather than stock.

A tweaked 64C/128T Threadripper gets you 90,000 points without even breaking 430 Watts...

 

[Kocicak]

XEON w7-3455 with 24 all P cores gets you lower score in CNB R23 than 13900K with 24 most E cores. Hmmm...

142W idle power.... Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

I guess these chips make sense only to people wanting those PCIe lanes or tons on RAM, who insist on using Intel and who own their own power plants.

 

[Markfw]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1628408788586991616

It's not a good showing I'm afraid

516 watts for 70k in cb23 ? Pathetic.

 

[nicalandia]

XEON w7-3455 with 24 all P cores gets you lower score in CNB R23 than 13900K with 24 most E cores. Hmmm...

142W idle power.... Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

I guess these chips make sense only to people wanting those PCIe lanes or tons on RAM, who insist on using Intel and who own their own power plants.

I told you so.

It's not about the Core uArch. Golden Cove and Raptor Cove are very good and efficient cores... But this time Intel just choked them with small L3$, and slow Mesh Interconnect.

 

[MrTeal]

Idle power with all-core at 4.2GHz.

 

[Markfw]

I told you so.

It's not about the Core uArch. Golden Cove and Raptor Cove are very good and efficient cores... But this time Intel just choked them with small L3$, and slow Mesh Interconnect.

How can you say efficient , when comparing to Zen 4, they are horrible.

 

[nicalandia]

516 watts for 70k in cb23 ? Pathetic.

I know, a tuned Zen3 based 64 Core ThreadRipper can do 90,000 points and does it with 430 Watts, so 28% Higher MT for 15% less consumption.

 

[Markfw]

I know, a tuned Zen3 based 64 Core ThreadRipper can do 90,000 points and does it with 430 Watts, so 28% Higher MT for 15% less consumption.

And a Zen 4 threadripper would really kill it.

 

[nicalandia]

How can you say efficient , when comparing to Zen 4, they are horrible.

Not horrible, somewhat less and in some cases they are at parity. I am talking about Raptor Lake-S, not the monstrosity that Sapphire Rapids turned out to be.

 

[Markfw]

Not horrible, somewhat less and in some cases they are at parity. I am talking about Raptor Lake-S, not the monstrosity that Sapphire Rapids turned out to be.

Even Raptor lake. 350 at stock ? vs 230 ? And I would have to search for more benchmarks with wattage, as I remember its worse than that quite often.

 

[nicalandia]

Even Raptor lake. 350 at stock ? vs 230 ? And I would have to search for more benchmarks with wattage, as I remember its worse than that quite often.

I understand, but the 12900K and 13900K are able to match and some times even exceed their bracket competitor in MT. But these monstrosities(Xeon W9/W7) are not even competitive with Zen3, you know they will get horribly embarrassed by Zen4 based ThreadRippers.

 

[Timmah!]

I understand, but the 12900K and 13900K are able to match and some times even exceed their bracket competitor in MT. But these monstrosities(Xeon W9/W7) are not even competitive with Zen3, you know they will get horribly embarrassed by Zen4 based ThreadRippers.

Yeah, i think its almost guaranteed 32core Zen4 TR will match this 56core in CB23.

 

[Markfw]

I understand, but the 12900K and 13900K are able to match and some times even exceed their bracket competitor in MT. But these monstrosities(Xeon W9/W7) are not even competitive with Zen3, you know they will get horribly embarrassed by Zen4 based ThreadRippers.

The fact that they can win SOMETIMES does not make them efficient.

 

[nicalandia]

No doub

Yeah, i think its almost guaranteed 32core Zen4 TR will match this 56core in CB23.

No Doubt about it.

 

[coercitiv]

So, Intel's second attempt at disaggregating their chips has again resulted in poor energy efficiency.

Let's hope third time is indeed the charm with MTL, otherwise nasty things will happen. Under no circumstance whatsoever can Intel afford to have poor efficiency with a mainstream mobile product. Luckily MTL has a relatively safer approach to tiles than SPR or Lakefiled, so fingers crossed until... unspecified time during H2 2023.

 

[jpiniero]

So, Intel's second attempt at disaggregating their chips has again resulted in poor energy efficiency.

The issue is likely more 10 nm (and that they made the cores super big) than the disagreggation.

 

[igor_kavinski]

unspecified time during H2 2023.

That seems optimistic to me, considering we aren't hearing anything about how Intel 4 yields are, or if it actually HAS any yields so far.

 

[nicalandia]

Hey look, LN2 World Record...




128,000 Points at 1600 Watts...

Thing is... The 7995WX will beat that at stock....

 

[Det0x]

Hey look, LN2 World Record...

View attachment 76997


128,000 Points at 1600 Watts...

Thing is... The 7995WX will beat that at stock....

Where did that 1600w number come from if you dont mind me asking ? Or are you going by the PSU ?

Some more xtreme LN2 SR benchmarks

Cinebench R23 - 128391
https://hwbot.org/submission/5209423_
Cinebench R20 - 48433
https://hwbot.org/submission/5209420_
Geekbench3 Multi - 378078
https://hwbot.org/submission/5209434_
Y-Cruncher Pi 1b - 5sec 665ms
https://hwbot.org/submission/5209428_