Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

[franklinlora1985]

I think people here are failing to take into account the distinction between mobile and desktop. Desktop usually is about half a year behind mobile.

My money is on Alder Lake release for mobile late '21 and early '22 for desktop, so I don't see how both (Rocket Lake & Alder Lake launch in early & late '21) are mutually exclusive.

According to some leaks, Alder Lake is happening next year. Personally i'm excited for Alder Lake much more than any processor release in the last 3 years. Those Golden Cove cores are very powerful according to leaks. Finally something brand new from intel. Some people inside intel are calling Golden Cove the "next sandy bridge".

 

[mikk]

You sure you are reading the same review? The Asus was weak on 3D. The 17W Swift still outperforms it on Night Raid and Middle Earth game.

You can also see from their previous reviews of Icelake-based UX325 and UX425 that the graphics performance is seriously below expectations. It's not a one-off thing.

I still want to see a proper 25W system such as the XPS and the Yoga.

There is no performance score for Night Raid, this is from the slower standard mode. I'm looking at the Cinebench R20 score.

UX371E Performance= 1975
Swift 3 SF313-53= 1885 (best run)
Swift 3 14 SF314-59 : 2116 cb (best run)

SF314-59 runs with the slower i5-1135G7 and it's faster than both. GPU faster as well with only 80 EUs. All of them have a basic cooling, we will definitely see better results from devices with premium cooling like the Slim 7.

Btw:

1846 points in CB R20....he says it's running at 13W. i7-1185G7 at 28W is barely 20% faster than this. Gaming benchmarks are bad though. Possibly the same performance issue as Notebookcheck or Digitaltrends - performance mode doesn't seem to work for whatever reason.

 

[Abwx]

There is no performance score for Night Raid, this is from the slower standard mode. I'm looking at the Cinebench R20 score.

UX371E Performance= 1975
Swift 3 SF313-53= 1885 (best run)
Swift 3 14 SF314-59 : 2116 cb (best run)

SF314-59 runs with the slower i5-1135G7 and it's faster than both. GPU faster as well with only 80 EUs. All of them have a basic cooling, we will definitely see better results from devices with premium cooling like the Slim 7.

Btw:

1846 points in CB R20....he says it's running at 13W. i7-1185G7 at 28W is barely 20% faster than this. Gaming benchmarks are bad though. Possibly the same performance issue as Notebookcheck or Digitaltrends - performance mode doesn't seem to work for whatever reason.

There cant be only 20% better perf from 13W to 28W, actually the former is at about 18W on average the time it takes to make the bench, assuming the latter is effectively at 28W.

13W is eventually for sustained loads whose execution time is longer than a single CB run, at NBC you can see the real score at 13W or whatever is the sustained power after a few consecutive runs..

 

[Spartak]

According to some leaks, Alder Lake is happening next year. Personally i'm excited for Alder Lake much more than any processor release in the last 3 years. Those Golden Cove cores are very powerful according to leaks. Finally something brand new from intel. Some people inside intel are calling Golden Cove the "next sandy bridge".

Me too. But I heard ocean cove could be yet another IPC/perfromance leap? Does anybody have any rumors /info on ocean cove/meteor lake, when it's expected on the desktop (year after alder lake-S?) and whether it will be 7nm for the desktop as well? sounds a bit too optimistic to me. I'm expecting meteor lake to arrive at the desktop probably a year after it arrives on mobile on the 7+ node so if everything goes according to plan that would be fall 2023.

I usually buy my CPU's around a year after introduction when prices have come down and I can see what the next year will bring. If there is another big jump I might skip alder lake as well. 2021/2022 are going to be exciting years I think for those that prefer or need intel CPU's. For me, it's both. As my desktop rig is thin mini-ITX I'm bound to Intel, but I also prefer Intel for their superior user management of TDP and frequency.

Before thin mini-ITX I exclusively bought Cyrix/AMD in the past 25 years so I'm probably the only person in the world that switched to Intel post-Zen LOL.

 

[mikk]

There cant be only 20% better perf from 13W to 28W, actually the former is at about 18W on average the time it takes to make the bench, assuming the latter is effectively at 28W.

13W is eventually for sustained loads whose execution time is longer than a single CB run, at NBC you can see the real score at 13W or whatever is the sustained power after a few consecutive runs..

PL2 runs for like 28 seconds with higher power than 13W, this could be the reason.

So yes this device runs really with only 13W in performance mode, this is shocking from Asus. Performance mode is basically useless, 1W difference

 

[Markfw]

I have a serious question, I may have missed it elsewhere in this thread. With Zen from AMD being so popular, why would Intel name these laptops Zenbook ? Makes it sound like its an AMD product. I thought it was.

 

[Hitman928]

I have a serious question, I may have missed it elsewhere in this thread. With Zen from AMD being so popular, why would Intel name these laptops Zenbook ? Makes it sound like its an AMD product. I thought it was.

It's Asus' branding, not Intel's, and has been around for much longer than AMD's Zen processors.

 

[Markfw]

It's Asus' branding, not Intel's, and has been around for much longer than AMD's Zen processors.

Thanks you ! I don't follow laptops very much, hence my question.

 

[IntelUser2000]

@mikk Don't you mean it doesn't have scores for performance on Sky Diver and Night Raid?

It clearly shows that on Hothardware.

I have a serious question, I may have missed it elsewhere in this thread. With Zen from AMD being so popular, why would Intel name these laptops Zenbook ? Makes it sound like its an AMD product. I thought it was.

You could have watched the video.

 

[mikk]

I have a serious question, I may have missed it elsewhere in this thread. With Zen from AMD being so popular, why would Intel name these laptops Zenbook ? Makes it sound like its an AMD product. I thought it was.

Why not? Intel is better in most metrics. Unless someone really needs to render on a thin and light there is nothing really against Intel. Asus has to sort out their thermal/software issues in the first place.

 

[IntelUser2000]

Me too. But I heard ocean cove could be yet another IPC/perfromance leap?

Someone said Ocean Cove is like Willow Cove and will be a minimal increase.

 

[mikk]

@mikk Don't you mean it doesn't have scores for performance on Sky Diver and Night Raid?

It clearly shows that on Hothardware.

There is only a standard mode score from Sky Diver. There is a performance mode score from Night Raid but isn't enough, unfortunately they didn't test the more popular firestrike standard and time spy. One a further note from Hothardware:

As we tested, we noticed that some 3D performance was lower than expected--much lower than the Tiger Lake reference platform. To see if we could suss out the cause, we dove into the ZenBook Flip S's UEFI to check out the graphics configuration. The amount of memory pre-allocated to the integrated GPU is always relatively low, but in this case it was set to just 32 MB. The drop-down let us bump that up to 64 MB, which still doesn't seem like a lot, but it got performance in line with where we expected it to be.

pre-allocated memory shouldn't make a difference in performance, the software/bios really seems to be buggy on this device.

 

[IntelUser2000]

As I said before, Tigerlake systems can't be said to have X TDP anymore. The CPU detects the type of application and it sets TDP dynamically based on it.

One application may have PL1 of 17W, another 25W, yet another 22W. PL2 is actually rarely engaging on these systems.

The sustained performance is far, far more stable than Icelake due to this.

 

[mikk]

In this test: https://www.ultrabookreview.com/42008-acer-swift-3-14-sf314-59-review/

He did use the official Xe driver from September (he confirmed in the comments) which is much newer than the driver used in the reference test and other tests, it could make a difference.

 

[IntelUser2000]

It's not faster because of the driver. The power allocated to it is higher. You can see it from the CPU package power, the actual power used.

Also by latest driver I think you are talking about the beta driver that only talks about OneAPI. As long as you have the Xe enabler driver I think its fine.

 

[Exist50]

Me too. But I heard ocean cove could be yet another IPC/perfromance leap? Does anybody have any rumors /info on ocean cove/meteor lake, when it's expected on the desktop (year after alder lake-S?) and whether it will be 7nm for the desktop as well? sounds a bit too optimistic to me. I'm expecting meteor lake to arrive at the desktop probably a year after it arrives on mobile on the 7+ node so if everything goes according to plan that would be fall 2023.

It's not Ocean Cove. But to answer regarding Meteor Lake's big core, Alder Lake is probably a better place to upgrade if you're just waiting for a bump in single thread. Keep in mind that Alder Lake S is arriving 2021, while MTL is confirmed not arriving until early 2023-ish, and I believe Bob Swan said that was mobile first. Might be as much as two years between ADL-S and MTL-S in the worst case.

 

[Abwx]

PL2 runs for like 28 seconds with higher power than 13W, this could be the reason.

So yes this device runs really with only 13W in performance mode, this is shocking from Asus. Performance mode is basically useless, 1W difference

PL2 is at 50W and it doesnt hold long before the device goes at a 25-30W PL1 and then ending definitly at 15W, on the CB R15 test it does 800pts on the first run on performance mode and 600pts on silent mode.

Once the device has warmed it does 500pts on perf/mode and hoover at 400-500pts on silent mode, that being said that s a 13.3" and thermals are limited in such a format, so the perfs, overall are good enough for a device that is used in beds...

Asus ZenBook Flip S UX371 Review - Compact Convertible with Tiger Lake and OLED

Notebookcheck reviews the Asus ZenBook Flip S UX371 with the new Tiger Lake processor and OLED touchscreen.

www.notebookcheck.net

 

[Bouowmx]

I was thinking how Rocket Lake would be segmented, with fewer cores than Comet Lake.
Does this user have sources, or is just speculating?
Rocket Lake Core i7 is the same as i9: 8C/16T, 16 MB L3, just less frequency.

Spoiler: MebiuW

https://twitter.com/x/status/1315675891192668160

https://twitter.com/x/status/1315675442439843841

 

[jpiniero]

The original rumor had the i7 at 8C12T. They may have bumped it up to 16T.

 

[ondma]

The original rumor had the i7 at 8C12T. They may have bumped it up to 16T.

Rocket Lake is not big/little, so would it not have to be either 6C/12T or 8C/16T?
I suppose it is possible to enable hypertheading on only half of the cores, but it seems highly unlikely.

 

[jpiniero]

I suppose it is possible to enable hypertheading on only half of the cores, but it seems highly unlikely.

You can do per core disable of HT starting with Comet Lake. Now it does make sense to keep the i7 at 8C16T.

 

[eek2121]

I was thinking how Rocket Lake would be segmented, with fewer cores than Comet Lake.
Does this user have sources, or is just speculating?
Rocket Lake Core i7 is the same as i9: 8C/16T, 16 MB L3, just less frequency.

Spoiler: MebiuW

https://twitter.com/x/status/1315675891192668160

https://twitter.com/x/status/1315675442439843841

I am willing to bet that the turbo he is quoting is just Intel’s gimmicky Thermal Velocity Boost. Actual boost clocks will be 5.1 ghz.

 

[Zucker2k]

I am willing to bet that the turbo he is quoting is just Intel’s gimmicky Thermal Velocity Boost. Actual boost clocks will be 5.1 ghz.

Even 5GHz with 7% better ipc than Skylake is not that shabby at all. Intel must stop the bleeding anyway they can.

 

[mikk]

It's not faster because of the driver. The power allocated to it is higher. You can see it from the CPU package power, the actual power used.

Also by latest driver I think you are talking about the beta driver that only talks about OneAPI. As long as you have the Xe enabler driver I think its fine.

Even though it could be a combination of both. All Tigerlake reviews were using the reference review driver build 8439 which is much older than the first public Xe enabler. Anyways all the tested devices were not final. First release bios for the Flip UX371 comes with version 300, Notebookcheck tested with 204. Ultrabookreviews tested the UX393EA with bios 201, the first and only public bios gets version 205.

 

[mikk]

Intel Alder Lake-S CPU photo leaks

Exclusive: Intel Alder Lake-S CPU pictured - VideoCardz.com

Alder Lake-S smiles for the camera. Intel Alder Lake-S CPU photo leaks Intel’s first desktop processors based on 10nm SuperFin architecture will officially launch in the second half of 2021. Our sources believe that the launch of Alder Lake will be closer to the fourth quarter, rather than the...

videocardz.com