Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

[H433x0n]

in that case neither does arrow. arrow here according to roach is severely cut down. wtf is going on @ hills borough?

That wasn't what was rumored though. They were going to use the Meteor 6+8 die as the low end and Arrow (presumably 8+16) as the high end.

I don't see where ARL-S got cut down? Is there a new rumor/leak about that?

It seems like we went from this:
ARL-S 8P/16E (high end)
MTL-S 6P/8E (low end)

To this:
ARL-S 8P/16E (high end)
ARL-S 6P/8E (low end)

 

[ondma]

I don't see where ARL-S got cut down? Is there a new rumor/leak about that?

It seems like we went from this:
ARL-S 8P/16E (high end)
MTL-S 6P/8E (low end)

To this:
ARL-S 8P/16E (high end)
ARL-S 6P/8E (low end)

Here is the link, granted it is WCCF tech, so???? [URL = https://wccftech.com/intel-meteor-lake-s-cancelled-once-again-arrow-lake-s-14-core-desktop-skus/] new leak [/URL]

Edit: Even more troubling, if you read further down the article, they claim that AL will max out at 6P,8E configuration. I am hoping this is a mis-interpretation of the roadmap, and that what it really means is that AL 6P,8E will replace ML 6P,8E, but there will still be higher end AL 8P,16E. If AL does in fact max out at 6P,8E it will be an unmitigated disaster for Intel. If Zen 5 lives up to the hype, even AL 8/16 will probably have a hard time matching it, and will come out later.

 

[H433x0n]

Here is the link, granted it is WCCF tech, so???? [URL = https://wccftech.com/intel-meteor-lake-s-cancelled-once-again-arrow-lake-s-14-core-desktop-skus/] new leak [/URL]

Edit: Even more troubling, if you read further down the article, they claim that AL will max out at 6P,8E configuration. I am hoping this is a mis-interpretation of the roadmap, and that what it really means is that AL 6P,8E will replace ML 6P,8E, but there will still be higher end AL 8P,16E. If AL does in fact max out at 6P,8E it will be an unmitigated disaster for Intel. If Zen 5 lives up to the hype, even AL 8/16 will probably have a hard time matching it, and will come out later.

It's a misinterpretation and I don't understand how they even got to that conclusion. This is the quote:

"(In the May RM for intel client, MTL-S is canceled final and ARL-S 6+8 die will instead.)"

I don't see how that gets interpreted to into Intel also cancels ARL-S 8P+16E & 8P+8E configurations too.

 

[coercitiv]

Edit: Even more troubling, if you read further down the article, they claim that AL will max out at 6P,8E configuration. I am hoping this is a mis-interpretation of the roadmap

That's likely a problem between chair and keyboard at wccftech: we all know MTL-S was supposed to cater the lower half of the desktop segment, just like Alder Lake chips are part of the 13th gen. The leak says nothing about the top die.

 

[Geddagod]

It's a misinterpretation and I don't understand how they even got to that conclusion. This is the quote:



I don't see how that gets interpreted to into Intel also cancels ARL-S 8P+16E & 8P+8E configurations too.

It's mixed news for consumers tbh. One one hand, consumers will get a better low end CPU, since ARL would be better than MTL same core counts. On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised if prices are a bit higher for those CPUs. and also they would almost certainly be launched later from when MTL-S would have been able to launch.

 

[H433x0n]

It's mixed news for consumers tbh. One one hand, consumers will get a better low end CPU, since ARL would be better than MTL same core counts. On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised if prices are a bit higher for those CPUs. and also they would almost certainly be launched later from when MTL-S would have been able to launch.

It's mixed news for sure but I think it's for a different reason. I think it's because MTL is really underwhelming in any scenario outside of mobile. Both RPL-R and now ARL-S muscle it out of the desktop lineup.

 

[A///]

It's possible, if the E-cores are somehow running on steroids, able to offer at least Zen 3 level performance.

possible but the last 8 years of intel doesn't instill much confidence.

Maybe ARL-S will be the first consumer platform to feature dual socket CPUs

Or dual compute chiplets.

your technically wrong. intel skull trails with dual qx9775's were available 14 years ago. you could also plop in some xeons. it was socket lga 771. a very enthusiast board touted by intel. I knew a handful of people with more money than brains blow their money on that platform.

 

[A///]

disappointing when you factor in the blow up game intel where making about it a couple years ago, game changer they said. i'll reserve further comments in case intel is messing with leakers at this point by feeding bad info to figure out who is leaking. there is a term for this, it's not canary alarm or red herring or it is red herring.

 

[A///]

i say technically wrong because you are right but the money cost then was absolutely insane for the time but relatively normal now a days with 450 dollar mother boards becoming the normal we've been seeking but has become quite disfigured!

 

[Thunder 57]

possible but the last 8 years of intel doesn't instill much confidence.



your technically wrong. intel skull trails with dual qx9775's were available 14 years ago. you could also plop in some xeons. it was socket lga 771. a very enthusiast board touted by intel. I knew a handful of people with more money than brains blow their money on that platform.

Don't forget about the Quadfather. What a terrible product. Hell, you could even run Athlon XP's in a dual socket motherboard, instead of paying for the MP's. That was never an advertised feature, though, for obvious reasons.

 

[A///]

Don't forget about the Quadfather. What a terrible product. Hell, you could even run Athlon XP's in a dual socket motherboard, instead of paying for the MP's. That was never an advertised feature, though, for obvious reasons.

first time im reading about this. after amd's fall with the release of core they ended up on the backburner for years until later when i tried out their hot potatoes.

 

[mikk]

6+_8 for arrow lake is interesting. either intel cannot make an 8+16 part, which is likely the reason or their new 6+8 is powerful enough to blast past a 16 full fat cores processor for a total of 14 cores and 20 threads. this isn't the likely reason giving their past performance and behaviour.

6+8 ARL-S is a replacement for 6+8 MTL-S, it's not a replacement for 8+16 ARL-S.

 

[Saylick]

I don't see how that gets interpreted to into Intel also cancels ARL-S 8P+16E & 8P+8E configurations too.

It's because WCCFTech writers are morons who get paid by the article. Once it's written and published, they move onto the next story and never bother to read what they previously wrote.

 

[igor_kavinski]

It's because WCCFTech writers are morons who get paid by the article.

They are PAID for that crap???

 

[Saylick]

They are PAID for that crap???

I suspect the pay is good to cover the basic cost of living, especially when you consider that a bunch of their staff are from India/Pakistan, but the real perks of the job are that they get to keep review samples. Yes, technically speaking the review samples are on loan from the vendor, but they usually don't ask for them back.

If your lifestyle revolves around playing PC videogames all day every day, I guess it's not a bad gig to have. I personally wouldn't do it for the long haul though, especially if you have aspirations of growing up and being an adult.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Never bothered to check their reviews before but reading this: https://wccftech.com/review/crucial...eview-this-is-what-peak-stability-looks-like/

Ugghhhh. Who wants a migraine reading crap like that???

 

[Saylick]

Never bothered to check their reviews before but reading this: https://wccftech.com/review/crucial...eview-this-is-what-peak-stability-looks-like/

Ugghhhh. Who wants a migraine reading crap like that???

Ehh, if you got a migraine reading that crap, I advise you to never ever take a look at their comment section for their hardware articles. It's a toxic cesspool of trolls where anything goes. You'll get your run-of-the-mill Intel/AMD/Nvidia fanboys along with a healthy dose of racist/politically incorrect/sexist side commentary. It's an unmitigated disaster that the WCCFTech leadership keeps intact (read: will never moderate) because they'd lose a significant portion of their viewer base if they did. It's yet another example of WCCFTech choosing money over integrity.

 

[A///]

read????? i look at his pictures and leave the site. you're not missing out on much.

 

[Exist50]

Worth posting these two here:

A Troubling Trend – Overclock.net

web.archive.org

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/6bih5e

Doesn't even scratch past the surface. I think anyone with an interest in tech who naively follows wccftech for a while begins to see the problems. Most notably, they have a habit of deleting or editing past articles to make themselves seem right all along, despite publishing some of the most blatantly nonsensical BS known to mankind.

 

[Doug S]

Why do you think Intel presented the plan that they did instead of the one you and Linus (you project will) recommend? I'm not being snarky, it's an honest question. What are the pros and cons of Intel's plan as you see it?

So Linus didn't tear them a new one like I expected (at least not that I've read) but he did have an interesting take on the "why":

Much of the X86-S spec would seem to be things that you could probably do with existing hardware, just new microcode. Which makes it easier to test out before you actually commit to hardware changes.

That would make for a very conservative (and more importantly, cheap!) path - allowing them to test it without actually spending $100M minimum to design an x86-S core, produce mask sets and fab it.

I still think it doesn't go far enough, and Linus does point out some issues with it but he seems less heated than I am about it. Maybe his expectations for Intel have been beaten down over years of frustration seeing them come out with woefully broken stuff like TSX so he figures that while x86-S might not be ideal it is at least not going to actively cause problems like some of their extensions do!

 

[moinmoin]

Patrick from STH's take on X86-S.

"To put this in perspective, two-generation old 16-bit compatibility in 2023 is like SpaceX spending time to figure out how to strap a horse saddle to a rocket flight seat. If folks still want to ride horses, they can use horses and saddles. We can look back at 16-bit compatibility through ESG-themed upcycling as we do with nostalgic equestrian pursuits.

If this were 2007-2010 when that transition was in full force, my opinion would be very different, but we are a decade to a decade-and-a-half from the transition’s major push."

Intel X86-S Streamlined 64-bit Instruction Set A Perspective

Intel released an initial X86-S simplification white paper that would remove 16-bit and 32-bit support. We say do it and explain why

www.servethehome.com

So Linus didn't tear them a new one like I expected (at least not that I've read) but he did have an interesting take on the "why"

Got a link? Couldn't find it at the usual places where I'd expect it.

 

[Geddagod]

I think anyone with an interest in tech who naively follows wccftech for a while begins to see the problems.

Can personally confirm this is true

 

[Geddagod]

The real effects of Intel's financial decline:

Intel changes packaging for Core i9-12900KS Alder Lake CPU - VideoCardz.com

Intel runs out of plastic wafers, Core i9-12900KS gets new packaging Intel Core i9-12900KS gets downgraded to ‘Tier 4’ box Intel issued PCN (Product Change Notification) for the flagship Alder Lake desktop CPU. The processor is not going EOL, but it will now ship in a new box. Intel is therefore...

videocardz.com

 

[Exist50]

Can personally confirm this is true

Yeah, and I didn't mean that to sound like a bad thing. It's very unfortunate that wccftech is so often the top result for tech rumors. And when they write so authoritatively, it's only natural for people to get duped until they have time to see it in action.

 

[Exist50]

Anyway, I'm surprised to see no comments on the other details in the leaked slide.

Let's start on the left. Is this the first time we've seen an "MX" line mentioned? Premium mobile, perhaps starting with Lunar Lake? And then there's PX, like the old references to that big GPU Arrow Lake. Maybe it's still alive. No mention of just plain old P though?

And then in the upper right, we have some even more interesting details. p1278.6 implies a further refinement/iteration of 20A/18A. Maybe they'd call it 16A? And then they bother to include the next proper shrink (p1280.2) in that legend, and yet the roadmap clearly only covers through 2026. Might imply they want to have something on the next full node shrink by the end of '26. Or they're just reusing that legend from another context. Guess that's a possibility.