Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

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eek2121

Platinum Member
Aug 2, 2005
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At similar frequencies, 8 Sunny Cove-based cores are going to be just as fast as 10 Skylake-based cores in heavy MT, and faster in everything else.
Actually, they will be much faster. Also they will: leave AMD sweating when it comes to performance. The end user sweating when it comes out to RKL, and AMD fanboys sweating when it comes to everything else!
 
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IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
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Didn't mention AMD anywhere in my post.

Rocketlake overall looks bad but will likely be a decent change from Cometlake.
 

TheGiant

Senior member
Jun 12, 2017
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Why are they using the crappy Zenbook as a comparison point? The Swift 5 with the same TDP level outperforms it by 25%. In games it can be high as 50%.



It's not just that. The Swift 5 is way better. They make completely different conclusions.

NBC is being click-baitey.
you mean this ? https://www.notebookcheck.net/Acer-Swift-5-Sneak-Peek-Preview-Tiger-Lake-iGPU-attacs-Entry-Level-GeForce.496234.0.html

far better implementatation while being much lighter than that asus crap

with current designs number of choices looks a little thin.....

no competent 3:2 laptop

HP announced their x360 in 14" instead of 13", maybe that one or dell

Microsoft looks they don't care for surface laptop 3 upgrade to renoir and tiger lake
 

Dave2150

Senior member
Jan 20, 2015
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At similar frequencies, 8 Sunny Cove-based cores are going to be just as fast as 10 Skylake-based cores in heavy MT, and faster in everything else.
Will we see the 11th gen 8 core rocket lake release this year from Intel? Alder Lake and lga 1700 still on track for 2021?
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
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Will we see the 11th gen 8 core rocket lake release this year from Intel? Alder Lake and lga 1700 still on track for 2021?
No clue. It's better to expect Rocketlake in early 2021. Alderlake maybe December.

Microsoft looks they don't care for surface laptop 3 upgrade to renoir and tiger lake.
Microsoft tends to be late, but their thermal/performance implementation happens to be top notch. No concidence there.
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
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Will we see the 11th gen 8 core rocket lake release this year from Intel? Alder Lake and lga 1700 still on track for 2021?
I used to entertain the idea of Intel making a limited availability launch for one RKL-S SKU in Nov-Dec 2020, to prevent AMD dominating the news cycles in Q4. However, if there is such a plan it may greatly depend on what AMD presents us with this month.

The safer bet is still Q1 2021.
 
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JoeRambo

Golden Member
Jun 13, 2013
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I used to entertain the idea of Intel making a limited availability launch for one RKL-S SKU in Nov-Dec 2020, to prevent AMD dominating the news cycles in Q4. However, if there is such a plan it may greatly depend on what AMD presents us with this month.
Intel can easily do that, they have mastery in paper launching of halo products. For example 10900K is still impossible to buy in my country to this day, and I had to use personal connections to snag one in July. 10980XE is MIA around the world to this day.
 

mikk

Diamond Member
May 15, 2012
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ASUS ZenBook S UX393EA i7-1165G7 8GB LPDDR4x review: https://www.ultrabookreview.com/41503-asus-zenbook-ux393ea-review/

There are three performance modes on this:
Performance – allows the CPU to run at 26+W, with fans ramping up to 41-42 dB in demanding loads and games;
Standard – allows the CPU to run at 17+W, with fans ramping up to 37-38 dB in demanding loads and games;
Whisper – limits the CPU at 10+W to favor lower fan-noise of sub 30 dB.
Performance mode also allows higher temperatures. The standard mode seems to be the same as in the Notebookcheck test, I wonder if their model didn't have a performance setting or if they just didn't use it. The Asus is going for a basic cooling system:

Asus went with a fairly basic thermal module here, with a single heatpipe and single fan
Compare this to the Slim 7 with 4800U on this site:

This IdeaPad Slim 7 implements a complex thermal module for the class, with a dual-fan, dual-radiator and a thick heatpipe on this configuration.
As for the Zenbook S UX398EA in performance mode and gaming:

As mentioned already, the Intel i7-1165G7 implementation in this chassis runs at between 22-25W in the tested titles, with the CPU averaging speeds of around 2.0+ GHz and temperatures of 78-85 degrees C, and the GPU running at 1.1 to 1.25 GHz.
In the Notebookcheck test Irix Xe was running with like 850 Mhz because they didn't use or had performance mode, therefore the UX393EA performs a lot better. Cinebench R15 Multi no drop of.
 

TheGiant

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Jun 12, 2017
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ASUS ZenBook S UX393EA i7-1165G7 8GB LPDDR4x review: https://www.ultrabookreview.com/41503-asus-zenbook-ux393ea-review/

There are three performance modes on this:


Performance mode also allows higher temperatures. The standard mode seems to be the same as in the Notebookcheck test, I wonder if their model didn't have a performance setting or if they just didn't use it. The Asus is going for a basic cooling system:



Compare this to the Slim 7 with 4800U on this site:



As for the Zenbook S UX398EA in performance mode and gaming:



In the Notebookcheck test Irix Xe was running with like 850 Mhz because they didn't use or had performance mode, therefore the UX393EA performs a lot better. Cinebench R15 Multi no drop of.
thanks
explains a lot
 

mikk

Diamond Member
May 15, 2012
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Several polish sites have tested the Acer Swift 5 i7-1165G7


Cooling system on the Swift 5: https://geex.x-kom.pl/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/wnętrze-acer-swift-5.jpg
Cooling system on the ZenBook S UX393EA: https://www.ultrabookreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/internals-3.jpg

Acer is using a basic cooling system as well for the Swift 5. edit: The Acer is using a dual-heatpipe, so it should have a slightly better cooling in theory which explains the better performance compared to the Asus UX393EA.
 
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clemsyn

Senior member
Aug 21, 2005
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Several polish sites have tested the Acer Swift 5 i7-1165G7


Cooling system on the Swift 5: https://geex.x-kom.pl/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/wnętrze-acer-swift-5.jpg
Cooling system on the ZenBook S UX393EA: https://www.ultrabookreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/internals-3.jpg

Acer is using a basic cooling system as well for the Swift 5.
Reviews look really good but are memory soldered on the motherboard for Tigerlakes? Is there a model that has a removable memory module?
 

mikk

Diamond Member
May 15, 2012
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LPDDR4x is soldered. Many of the upcoming DDR4 devices should have a removable memory module, often one is soldered and the second isn't. Ultrabookreview tested a model with only 8 GB of LPDDR4x, personally I wouldn't buy such a device. It was fine 3 years ago but not anymore.
 

TheGiant

Senior member
Jun 12, 2017
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If true, may as well just kill it and try to release Sapphire Rapids in late 2021.
IMO some clients got it already
Intel should imo focus on low thread up to 28 workstations for per thread performance
Icelake so as server products looks dead to me
 

Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
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If true, may as well just kill it and try to release Sapphire Rapids in late 2021.
Intel doesn't want to go almost another full year without something new for servers. They've been stuck on Skylake now for way too long. Even if ICL in servers is only marginally better, they need something for the market to try and stay relevant in the eyes of the customers.
 

JoeRambo

Golden Member
Jun 13, 2013
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Anyone else feel that Alder Lake is completely wrong product, that bets performance on Windows process scheduler with barely anything to show for in return? It is like AMD ZEN CCX hell, except scheduler needs time machine to know in advance characteristics of the load. And if it gets scheduled on small cores when in fact it needs performance, you pay insane cache miss price for migrating it to perf cores. ARMs LB is for phones, that care about perf/w above all, there are no workstation/server chips with such scheme.

The only scenario it could function is letting those 2 small core clusters sit completely idle unless big cluster is fully saturated ( aka Cinebench runs ). Sounds like recipe for inconsistent performance and blaming MS when in fact it is problem that is impossible to solve without time machine.

People who care about MT performance will continue to buy AMD and the rest will suffer this stupid core count war hurting performance everywhere.

Sad when horribad chiplet scheme is more heterogenous than monolithic chip and I feel this was forced on us due to stupid MT tests everywhere. AMD will destroy this product with proper 16C chips for desktop and honestly on mobile i'd take future single CCX 8C AMD without this BS.
 
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uzzi38

Platinum Member
Oct 16, 2019
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Rocket Lake launches in March 2021. Major bummer.

On the bright side, memory overclocking should be a thing on B560. Finally.
 

mikk

Diamond Member
May 15, 2012
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8+8 Alder Lake-S ES spotted. The Result ID says that it has 32T, but SiSoft does seem to read it correctly as 24T in the number of threads.

Seems that a Small Core cluster gets 1.25 MB L2 and the whole chip has 30 MB L3.

Once again it's an ADL-S based leak and this time a fully enabled 8+8 part. So it confirms the 24 threads and 30MB L3 story from Notebookcheck and Golden Cove seems to get the cache size from Tigerlake, 3MB L3 per core and 1.25 MB L2 per core. I have scrolled through the Processor Arithmetic scores and I think this is a very good score if it's running with 1.4 Ghz only.

edit: if there is no L3 for Gracemont it would result in 3.75 MB L3 per core for Golden Cove. We don't know if Gracemont gets a separate L3.
 
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