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Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
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Agreed. No point in launching it in 2021 if in fact Sapphire Rapids is launching the same year. Then again, everything could be delayed. Intel doesn't have the nest track record lately.
If Sapphire Rapids is delayed like that . . . woof.

Right, but how many wafers can they dedicate to the 8 core die with yields the way they are? Seems destined to be a paper product. The 4 core version is much more useful.
TigerLake is 10SF, and we know nothing about yields of that process relative to 10nm+. It appears as though yields of 10nm+ have been pretty awful, which is why IceLake has been so slow to reach market (and some announced SKUs were completely MIA). Or in the case of IceLake-SP . . . massive delays. TigerLake is supposedly showing up in more devices and in greater quantities, but now product availability has been pushed back and I don't even know what to believe anymore.
 

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
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I think if 10SF actually improved yields (relatively speaking) Intel would have said something. I'm assuming the tooling, etc, is still the same between 10+ and 10SF. The transistor quality is just better because they are using a taller fin.
 
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eek2121

Senior member
Aug 2, 2005
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If Sapphire Rapids is delayed like that . . . woof.



TigerLake is 10SF, and we know nothing about yields of that process relative to 10nm+. It appears as though yields of 10nm+ have been pretty awful, which is why IceLake has been so slow to reach market (and some announced SKUs were completely MIA). Or in the case of IceLake-SP . . . massive delays. TigerLake is supposedly showing up in more devices and in greater quantities, but now product availability has been pushed back and I don't even know what to believe anymore.
We are getting TGL devices in a couple weeks.
 

eek2121

Senior member
Aug 2, 2005
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Right, but how many wafers can they dedicate to the 8 core die with yields the way they are? Seems destined to be a paper product. The 4 core version is much more useful.
I have a hard time believing that Intel has terrible yields for 10SF. Laptops are a mass market item, and this is a big launch for Intel. If they were having yield issues, we would get low volume releases.

The fact they are launching a complete product stack tells me the yields are there, but the capacity isn’t.
 

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
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I have a hard time believing that Intel has terrible yields for 10SF. Laptops are a mass market item, and this is a big launch for Intel. If they were having yield issues, we would get low volume releases.

The fact they are launching a complete product stack tells me the yields are there, but the capacity isn’t.
Just the opposite - they are spending the capacity. What they get out of it is what they get. Tiger Lake is going to be far far higher volume than Icelake but we are talking in relative terms. There is going to be tons of Comet Lake sold.
 

cortexa99

Member
Jul 2, 2018
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Intel need to speed up, dispite the fact 10nm wont be a savior lately due to yield problem, but 14nm++++++++ Rocketlake where are you? Desktop share will be eaten up by AMD if intel keep on sleeping....... AMD would have around 13-15% IPC advantage when Zen3 release at October.....There's no time for intel to mistaken. OMG I still have to talk about 14nm RKL in a ICL/TGL thread......
 

inf64

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2011
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Intel need to speed up, dispite the fact 10nm wont be a savior lately due to yield problem, but 14nm++++++++ Rocketlake where are you? Desktop share will be eaten up by AMD if intel keep on sleeping....... AMD would have around 13-15% IPC advantage when Zen3 release at October.....There's no time for intel to mistaken. OMG I still have to talk about 14nm RKL in a ICL/TGL thread......
There is not much they can do at this point. Their best bet is Alder Lake 8+8 and that is just because of Golden Cove cores. But that is a hybrid chip that will have a hard time beating 16C Zen3 SKU, let alone a Zen4 based 20C+ parts.
 

mikk

Platinum Member
May 15, 2012
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That wasn't even my point. TigerLake was supposed to be out in June or July. Intel whiffed by two months releasing it and even more when it comes to actual availability.
Launch window from late April: ww29-ww36

Maybe they are 1 month too late and this could have been a result of Corona.
 

Markfw

CPU Moderator, VC&G Moderator, Elite Member
Super Moderator
May 16, 2002
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Launch window from late April: ww29-ww36

Maybe they are 1 month too late and this could have been a result of Corona.
So nvidia is releasing and shipping soon (in the next 30 days) and AMD is releasing on Oct 8th (maybe). I think its not due to Corona virus....
 
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mikk

Platinum Member
May 15, 2012
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So nvidia is releasing and shipping soon (in the next 30 days) and AMD is releasing on Oct 8th (maybe). I think its not due to Corona virus....
How is it related to Tigerlake and how it disproves what I said??? Are you trying to compare a dGPU and a Retail CPU release with a mobile Soc product? Then have a look to Renoir-U which launched in January and has been available since May-June. And by the way you sound optimistic that AMD will do a hard launch on October 8th.
 

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
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You could say Intel/OEMs wanted to wait to launch Tigerlake until after BTS ends. Not because of logistical issues but because they could sell pretty much whatever they had, due to laptop demand in general.
 

LightningZ71

Senior member
Mar 10, 2017
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You aren't that far off the mark when you look at the market. Stock on any of the sub $600 laptops is nearly nonexistence in most places. Anything in the $600 - $900 market is tight as well. They could easily move every i3 and i5 Tiger Lake they manage to get into a laptop without spending a penny on advertising, even if it wasn't particularly competitive with AMD's chips. I feel that they have something with the TGL i7 units though, and those will likely be a bit pricey in retail.
 

mikk

Platinum Member
May 15, 2012
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Interesting Tigerlake read: https://medium.com/intel-tech/11th-gen-intel-core-processors-new-architectural-breakthroughs-b552fc77dce0

The results for 10nm SuperFin are stunning. We opted to go this route rather than IPC investment as we could guarantee a performance improvement to nearly all workloads — and it paid off. All IPs were designed to benefit from lower Vmins that can be translated either into ISO Freq Power Reduction: 20% — 30% (for IPs which are not Vmin floor limited) or into ISO Power Freq Improvement: 15% — 25% across the various voltage domains. In Tiger Lake, the Willow Cove core turbo frequency improved by more than 20% and achieves 4.8 GHz, with more to come, on the XLT process — incredible!
The chipset die within the Tiger Lake multi-chip package was key to achieving the extremely low modern connected standby (MCS) power in client products with integrated power delivery (FIVR). The PCH achieves deeper S0ix power states than available in previous client products, resulting in ~30% power reduction during the MCS workload. The key contributor to these results was Vnn removal, which internally removed voltage from all non-critical IPs, allowing only IPs such as CNVi, audio, and sensing to operate in these lower power states.
The new Xe-LP architecture increases the execution unit (EU) count from 64 to 96 and delivers an architectural improvement in Cdyn of 30–40%.

30-40% architectural performance improvement from Xe LP over Gen11 says Intel. LPDDR5 support is coming in 2021.
 

inf64

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2011
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Judging by the comments WC will not have any significant IPC improvements, maybe low single digits due to cache restructuring. The clock bump is impressive though, finally they are getting back to 14nm levels (or close).
 

A///

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Feb 24, 2017
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Think I read somewhere, rumor that is, RKL-S is going to boost to 5.5 Ghz max boost on a core or two for their high end parts, 8 cores that is.
 
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ondma

Golden Member
Mar 18, 2018
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Think I read somewhere, rumor that is, RKL-S is going to boost to 5.5 Ghz max boost on a core or two for their high end parts, 8 cores that is.
Seems unlikely. I thought RKL was expected to boost lower than Comet Lake due to being a backport of a core that was not designed for 14nm.
 

Exist50

Member
Aug 18, 2016
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Think I read somewhere, rumor that is, RKL-S is going to boost to 5.5 Ghz max boost on a core or two for their high end parts, 8 cores that is.
I believe I remember that "rumor" you're referring to. It was just someone on a Chinese forum speculating about what Intel could do, or what they wanted Intel to do. Not an actual leak.
 
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vstar

Member
May 8, 2019
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Judging by the comments WC will not have any significant IPC improvements, maybe low single digits due to cache restructuring. The clock bump is impressive though, finally they are getting back to 14nm levels (or close).
Yup, I think it was somewhere around +3-5% IPC over ICL, but we will have to wait for more reviews to figure this out.
 

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
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Seems unlikely. I thought RKL was expected to boost lower than Comet Lake due to being a backport of a core that was not designed for 14nm.
Based upon the leaked Geekbench score, RKL can hit 5 Ghz but ST could end up being still slower than the 1165G7 because the IPC is lower.
 
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LightningZ71

Senior member
Mar 10, 2017
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What I find more interesting about Tiger Lake is not the top of the stack i7, but the i5 and i3 products. I suspect that they will be very competitive with the comparable AMD products in almost every area.
 

ondma

Golden Member
Mar 18, 2018
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Based upon the leaked Geekbench score, RKL can hit 5 Ghz but ST could end up being still slower than the 1165G7 because the IPC is lower.
Max turbo for the 1165G7 is 4.7, but can it maintain that, even in sustained single threaded benchmarks?
 

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