Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

[IntelUser2000]

I was comparing It against 4700U 8C8T which has disabled SMT. If you enable SMT of course the difference will increase. The graph shows 43% difference between 4700U vs 4800U in Cinebench R15.

The 1570 points in R15 drops to 1210 long term for the 4800U, while on the 4700U, it doesn't drop a whole lot.

The real test on MT workloads will be sustained performance. If its ~1000 point R15 can be sustained then they've got a competitive product even on MT.

Edit: Devices arriving in October

 

[TheGiant]

why are we discussing throughput benchmarks on U segment? who the f. renders on an ultrabook and call himself a computer enthusiant?

for me with 8th gen i7 dell xps 13 this looks like conroe jump

lets wait for moar reviews...

 

[Hitman928]

I was comparing It against 4700U 8C8T which has disabled SMT. If you enable SMT of course the difference will increase. The graph shows 43% difference between 4700U vs 4800U in Cinebench R15.

Most likely in that table the 4700u is configured for 15W and the 4800u for 25W?

 

[IntelUser2000]

@TheGiant You have a point, but they are important because it tells you whether it'll throttle or not. It's especially true on PCs, even on ultrabooks because naturally you have more productivity scenarios.

It'll especially be true on gaming as you want consistency. When they got Iris Plus with eDRAM, the devices will power throttle after few mins, losing a lot of performance, which could be noticed by the user.

Most likely in that table the 4700u is configured for 15W and the 4800u for 25W?

The difference isn't large for the 4700U.

 

[Hitman928]

Ian says to be branded as Xe, the laptop needs to use dual channel memory. Otherwise, its UHD I guess?



Eh. He made a mistake. I've seen worse mistakes, and from vendors themselves!

But which mistake was made? Was it configured for 28W and he failed to realize it was throttling on longer loads or it was configured for 17W and he thought it was configured for 28W?

 

[DrMrLordX]

for me with 8th gen i7 dell xps 13 this looks like conroe jump

Conroe was more about IPC. TigerLake seems to perform well due to much higher boost clocks.

 

[IntelUser2000]

But which mistake was made? Was it configured for 28W and he failed to realize it was throttling on longer loads or it was configured for 17W and he thought it was configured for 28W?

The latter based on model and GPU performance.

 

[dullard]

why are we discussing throughput benchmarks on U segment? who the f. renders on an ultrabook and call himself a computer enthusiant?

Everyone who's ego depends on their chosen side winning is willing to come up with extreme use cases to feel like they are in the lead. This is true for both camps. So of course, you do your heavy lifting on ultra-thin laptops! That is, until the other side is in the lead then you would never do heavy lifting on ultra-thin laptops!

 

[Hitman928]

The latter based on model and GPU performance.

Upon what known iGPU performance metrics are you basing this on?

Also, they list 2.8GHz as the base frequency which would also indicate cTDP of 28W, would it not?

 

[coercitiv]

why are we discussing throughput benchmarks on U segment? who the f. renders on an ultrabook and call himself a computer enthusiant?

So of course, you do your heavy lifting on ultra-thin laptops! That is, until the other side is in the lead then you would never do heavy lifting on ultra-thin laptops!

Funny how people revolt against throughput benchmarks on U segment but forget to acknowledge that Intel itself focuses on 25W+ TDP ultrabooks. I mean, who are these people that need 25W+ TDP in an ultrabook instead of 12-15W?! Who uses professional software of any kind or games that require 25W+ APUs and call themselves a computer enthusiasts?!

Why do we need burst power consumption of 35-50W on CPUs for mobile devices meant for loading web pages and watching YouTube?!

 

[uzzi38]

Upon what known iGPU performance metrics are you basing this on?

Also, they list 2.8GHz as the base frequency which would also indicate cTDP of 28W, would it not?

Yes. Look at the cTDP figures for the 1160G7. 15W cTDP up hase a base of 2.1GHz.

It does indeed appear TGL-U base clocks for 15W SKUs are at 28W.

 

[dullard]

Funny how people revolt against throughput benchmarks on U segment but forget to acknowledge that Intel itself focuses on 25W+ TDP ultrabooks. I mean, who are these people that need 25W+ TDP in an ultrabook instead of 12-15W?! Who uses professional software of any kind or games that require 25W+ APUs and call themselves a computer enthusiasts?!

Why do we need burst power consumption of 35-50W on CPUs for mobile devices meant for loading web pages and watching YouTube?!

If we are talking about what Intel itself mentioned, the answer is "thin-gaming, thin-creator". I don't know if those people really exist or not, but those are the people Intel is targeting with their 28W UP3 chips.

I personally think the best combination (for either Intel or AMD) would be near infinite*, near zero time burst power with low sustained power afterwards. Most tasks people do on laptops is short bursts. Get them done quickly, but then go to a low power state for the rest of the time. If your laptop has thermal headroom, why not use it to get your bursty tasks done quickly so the laptop is as snappy as possible? Have everything you do load as fast as possible, then go to a low power state as you browse the web page or watch YouTube. The best of both worlds: snappy and long battery life.

*Within thermal limits.

 

[ondma]

Everyone who's ego depends on their chosen side winning is willing to come up with extreme use cases to feel like they are in the lead. This is true for both camps. So of course, you do your heavy lifting on ultra-thin laptops! That is, until the other side is in the lead then you would never do heavy lifting on ultra-thin laptops!

That is true. What irritates me the most though, is when those posters refuse to acknowledge other users might have a different use case and therefore different metrics. And then you have the "ghz doesnt matter", which is an outright lie.

 

[TheGiant]

@TheGiant You have a point, but they are important because it tells you whether it'll throttle or not. It's especially true on PCs, even on ultrabooks because naturally you have more productivity scenarios.

It'll especially be true on gaming as you want consistency. When they got Iris Plus with eDRAM, the devices will power throttle after few mins, losing a lot of performance, which could be noticed by the user.



The difference isn't large for the 4700U.

that is my point of view on U devices
U devices have a slow response power optimised display
playing games isn't really the target segment IMO
thoughput requires different construction of devices than burst/shorter loads
I am not expecting from U book thoughput, if I did I will buy a H book

Conroe was more about IPC. TigerLake seems to perform well due to much higher boost clocks.

yep, but I am talking about low thread absolute performance, that is what I expect from Ultrabook (like mine surface pro 4)

Everyone who's ego depends on their chosen side winning is willing to come up with extreme use cases to feel like they are in the lead. This is true for both camps. So of course, you do your heavy lifting on ultra-thin laptops! That is, until the other side is in the lead then you would never do heavy lifting on ultra-thin laptops!

I am sorry to disturb your internetz but I am not enemy of the state here, I have an AMD system.....wrong try

 

[dullard]

I am sorry to disturb your internetz but I am not enemy of the state here, I have an AMD system.....wrong try

I was agreeing with you. Discussing multi-core workloads on an ultra-thin laptop is a strange use case. So, why does my agreeing with you seem to anger you?

 

[TheGiant]

I was agreeing with you. Discussing multi-core workloads on an ultra-thin laptop is a strange use case. So, why does my agreeing with you seem to anger you?

ok sorry english isn't my native language, I didn't understand it properly
nevermind agreeing or not, the througput benchmark results should be used like the low priority on the U segment IMO
the reviews are like amateurish, like with cars if
fiat 500- first bench pulling 2,5t
bmw m140i- first bench pulling 2,5t
....

nissan navara- first bench pulling 2,5t - yeah thats it

 

[dullard]

the througput benchmark results should be used like the low priority on the U segment IMO

I agree. The problem is reviewers have very limited time to review a new piece of technology. So, they have automated scripts that just run all benchmarks. Then, to be unbiased, they report their results as-is.

As a reviewer, as soon as you put in opinions, you lose credibility with readers. That is true even with valid opinions such as "Rendering on a ultra-thin laptop is not a common use case".

 

[TheGiant]

I agree. The problem is reviewers have very limited time to review a new piece of technology. So, they have automated scripts that just run all benchmarks. Then, to be unbiased, they report their results as-is.

As a reviewer, as soon as you put in opinions, you lose credibility with readers. That is true even with valid opinions such as "Rendering on a ultra-thin laptop is not a common use case".

well for me it is like this
1. data
2. KPIs
3. analysis
4. Insights

Here is no need for a reviewer to read KPI/benchmarks charts. The analysis and Insights are the valuable.

The single threaded performance of that chip is scary in U segment. I wonder what the alder lake-s (with upgraded IPC) can do on desktop.

I am interested in more "intellingent" reviews. Intel is heavily investing into open source video/render/etc engines.
If the Xe GPU has the capabilities they tell us, maybe the throughput can be achieved with combo CPU+GPU as real APU, which ofc requires the SW side.
Tigerlake H is missing, but IMO it is because it will compete with 10700K. And that is what they can't afford.
They need to release rocket lake first.

I wonder how much is the 4266MHz DDR4 limiting the Xe GPU.

 

[dullard]

Here is Samsung's first laptop with Tiger Lake (articles are dated for tomorrow):

Galaxy Book Flex 5G: Samsung’s Stunning 2-in-1 Takes 5G Connectivity to a New Level

Samsung adds 5G to its leading flexible laptop featuring Intel’s latest powerful processor, 13MP world-facing camera and sophisticated S Pen

news.samsung.com

[Infographic] Enjoy Flexible Productivity on Your Terms with Galaxy Book Flex2 5G

As the boundaries between our home and work lives continue to shift, we require devices that can support us in both our work and our play more than ever

news.samsung.com

Seems that they think 5G is the way to go with it. No real details though (such as price).

Acer is going for $699 to $999.

Acer Announces Availability of New Swift 5 and Swift 3 Notebooks Powered by 11th Gen Intel Core Processors, Swift 5 Verified as An Intel Evo Platform Notebook

Award-winning Acer Swift 5 thin-and-light laptop one of the industry’s first to have been tested, tuned and verified[1] to meet the requirements of the Intel® Evo™ platform, ensuring it meets Intel’s hardware specifications and key experience targets for consistent responsiveness, instant wake...

news.acer.com

Lenovo €899 to €1899:

The Latest Lenovo Yoga Laptops Feature New Intel 11th Gen Core Mobile Processors with Intel Iris Xe graphics - Lenovo StoryHub

Today, Lenovo reveals the thin and light Yoga laptops that will offer up to the new 11th Gen Intel® Core™ mobile processors with Intel Iris® Xe graphics.

news.lenovo.com

 

[jpiniero]

Acer Swift series: November
Asus Zenbook: October/November

That's pretty surprising. I was expecting products shipping soon, not 2 months from now. Especially since it seems like they are blowing most of their 10 nm capacity on this.

 

[mikk]

The first products should be available in a month.

 

[eek2121]

At the end of the day there are 4 primary metrics that need to be measured: performance, battery life, dimensions, and weight. Other things like the build quality of the laptop matter, but the TDP of the CPU does not. We will wait for reviews, but right now, from the few initial benchmarks and previews, it appears that Tiger Lake will be a quality, competitive offering from Intel until AMD updates mobile with Zen 3 early next year.

I don’t buy a laptop to run Cinebench. I buy it to get stuff done when I am traveling and can’t use my desktop.

 

[eek2121]

Here is Samsung's first laptop with Tiger Lake (articles are dated for tomorrow):

Galaxy Book Flex 5G: Samsung’s Stunning 2-in-1 Takes 5G Connectivity to a New Level

Samsung adds 5G to its leading flexible laptop featuring Intel’s latest powerful processor, 13MP world-facing camera and sophisticated S Pen

news.samsung.com

[Infographic] Enjoy Flexible Productivity on Your Terms with Galaxy Book Flex2 5G

As the boundaries between our home and work lives continue to shift, we require devices that can support us in both our work and our play more than ever

news.samsung.com

Seems that they think 5G is the way to go with it. No real details though (such as price).

Acer is going for $699 to $999.

Acer Announces Availability of New Swift 5 and Swift 3 Notebooks Powered by 11th Gen Intel Core Processors, Swift 5 Verified as An Intel Evo Platform Notebook

Award-winning Acer Swift 5 thin-and-light laptop one of the industry’s first to have been tested, tuned and verified[1] to meet the requirements of the Intel® Evo™ platform, ensuring it meets Intel’s hardware specifications and key experience targets for consistent responsiveness, instant wake...

news.acer.com

Lenovo €899 to €1899:

The Latest Lenovo Yoga Laptops Feature New Intel 11th Gen Core Mobile Processors with Intel Iris Xe graphics - Lenovo StoryHub

Today, Lenovo reveals the thin and light Yoga laptops that will offer up to the new 11th Gen Intel® Core™ mobile processors with Intel Iris® Xe graphics.

news.lenovo.com

Looking forward to the reviews for the Yoga 9i.

 

[itsmydamnation]

At the end of the day there are 4 primary metrics that need to be measured: performance, battery life, dimensions, and weight. Other things like the build quality of the laptop matter, but the TDP of the CPU does not. We will wait for reviews, but right now, from the few initial benchmarks and previews, it appears that Tiger Lake will be a quality, competitive offering from Intel until AMD updates mobile with Zen 3 early next year.

I don’t buy a laptop to run Cinebench. I buy it to get stuff done when I am traveling and can’t use my desktop.

You forgot heat and fan noise , a laptop that you cant use on your lap isn't great .
What im really interested to see with TGL is power usage with low thread count thats the bit where i think TGL will be behind Renior, it will beat it in ST but Renior doesnt even get close to 15W using a single thread, AMD choose to leave performance on the table here.

 

[ondma]

You forgot heat and fan noise , a laptop that you cant use on your lap isn't great .
What im really interested to see with TGL is power usage with low thread count thats the bit where i think TGL will be behind Renior, it will beat it in ST but Renior doesnt even get close to 15W using a single thread, AMD choose to leave performance on the table here.

4700u turbos to 4.1 and 4800 turbos to 4.2. Not sure how much more single thread performance they can wring out of TSMC 7nm within a 15 or even 28 watt power budget.