Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

[NostaSeronx]

I'm doubling down, Intel is going to go TSMC's 7nm and 5nm. With refreshes of those products on TSMC returning back to Intel Custom Foundry.

All these products; Tigerlake/Alderlake/Jasperlake/etc. are essentially Cedarmill products this generation. If it launches at Intel first, then it isn't a good one. While, if it is at TSMC first it will be a good one.

 

[uzzi38]

Exactly, Gracemont with IPC around Sky Lake would be pretty powerfull and IMO it's not correct to be named as LITTLE core (as ARM's LITTLE cores are typically very low IPC in-order cores). It's more like MIDDLE core: saving a lot of die space and energy while delivering 80% IPC of Sunny Cove (or 60% of Golden Cove).

8x Golden Cove (IPC +40% over SKL) + 8x cores of SKL IPC .... this thing could be pretty competitive against Zen3 and Zen4.

"Big and Bigger Compute combination" sounds like Intel marketing to me personally. I'm fairly certain I've seen it on a slide as such at some point.

 

[Spartak]

I have no idea why people on this forum keep thinking that intel will release desktop CPUs with completely different architectures fighting for the exact same customer group some mere months away from each other... your estimate makes zero sense... Rocket Lake is not happening this year and it will be a wonder if intel gets TGL out this year in any meaningful quantity.

I'm sorry but this is not my estimate nor is it a meme from this forum. All rumors / leaked info suggests a late '20 /early '21 release. Furthermore, Comet Lake is half a year late, fall is the usual release period which I'm sure you should know.

The comparison with TGL is bizarre. It's for a different category of the market (h) and it's made on a process with very well known issues.

 

[lobz]

I'm sorry but this is not my estimate nor is it a meme from this forum. All rumors / leaked info suggests a late '20 /early '21 release. Furthermore, Comet Lake is half a year late, fall is the usual release period which I'm sure you should know.

The comparison with TGL is bizarre. It's for a different category of the market (h) and it's made on a process with very well known issues.

As you wish. I'm definitely marking this post for myself. We'll talk later this year.

 

[Spartak]

As you wish. I'm definitely marking this post for myself. We'll talk later this year.

It seems you have trouble understanding the concept of a range. I said somewhere between late this year and early next year. You can come back to me if there isnt a rocket lake release by june next year.

Not sure why you get your panties so twisted over something that is expected in that timeframe by almost anyone but you.

 

[DrMrLordX]

@lobz

I think Intel will overall sell more Tigerlake-U chips than IceLake-U. That might still not be that many, and the possibility of some weird thrown-together 8c Tigerlake-H that will show up in desktop still seems a bit remote. But hey we can dream, right?

@Spartak

Comet Lake-S is indeed very late. It's surprising that Intel took so long pulling together this product when it is essentially 10c Coffee Lake. It was supposed to be out in December or so. That being said, Comet Lake-S is a pretty lackluster product, so I don't expect its delays to specifically affect Rocket Lake-S' launch. Optimists would put it in Q1 2021. The question is whether Intel will have similar problems launching Rocket Lake-S.

 

[coercitiv]

I have no idea why people on this forum keep thinking that intel will release desktop CPUs with completely different architectures fighting for the exact same customer group some mere months away from each other...

While I'm not interested to get into this CML-S & RKL-S launch window debate... let's help you get that idea quickly.

At this very moment Intel is selling 2 mobile CPUs with completely different architectures which are fighting for the exact same customer group. They were launched mere months away from each other.

Using common sense to predict Intel's future behavior is so 2015.

 

[lobz]

At this very moment Intel is selling 2 mobile CPUs with completely different architectures which are fighting for the exact same customer group. They were launched mere months away from each other

ummm.... not really? There's no ICL / TGL over 4 cores, so tell me, exactly what should be the difference between the target groups of the 6-10 core CML and the 6-8 core RKL?

Using common sense to predict Intel's future behavior is so 2015.

Nevertheless, reading this I should probably retreat and say you're right

 

[lobz]

@lobz

I think Intel will overall sell more Tigerlake-U chips than IceLake-U.

That's almost 100%.
But what's also almost 100% for me, is that it's not gonna be this year. (I mean, the number of sold TGL surpassing the number of sold ICL).

 

[jpiniero]

Apple announced new Macbook Airs, and it does appear they are using Icelake-Y.

 

[Gideon]

Apple announced new Macbook Airs, and it does appear they are using Icelake-Y.

Hmm I get the impression they are.
From the notes: https://www.apple.com/macbook-air/

Testing conducted by Apple in February 2020 using preproduction 1.2GHz quad-core Intel Core i7-based MacBook Air systems with Intel Iris Plus Graphics, 16GB of RAM, and 2TB SSD, as well as shipping 1.6GHz dual-core Intel Core i5-based MacBook Air systems with Intel UHD Graphics 617, 16GB of RAM, and 1TB SSD.

EDIT:
In the configurator they list the models. It looks they correspond exactly to the Y models:
i3-1000G4 and i5-1030G7 (and i7-1060G7 as an extra)

 

[DrMrLordX]

Are those the first IceLake-Y products to market? I had thought IceLake-Y was so rare as to be non-existant? Or was that just the top-end IceLake-U?

 

[coercitiv]

Are those the first IceLake-Y products to market? I had thought IceLake-Y was so rare as to be non-existant?

IIRC ICL-Y was rare to non-existent presumably for this very reason: reserved for some high-profile clients like Apple and MS.

 

[jpiniero]

Details for Result ID Genuine Intel(R) CPU 0000 @ 2.70GHz (4C 8T 2.69GHz/4.3GHz, 4x 1.25MB L2, 12MB L3)

ranker.sisoftware.co.uk

28W Tiger Lake U sample. 2.7 base, 4.3 turbo.

 

[mopardude87]

Leaked pricing for Comet Lake. What can I say?

Spoiler: Competition is great!

View attachment 17293Artem S. Tashkinov

It would be nice to see how Intel Core i5 10400F compares to Ryzen 5 3600.

As excited as i am for even the 4000 series thing, who knows with this human malware situation it could be pushed but overall the Comet stuff may be hotter then Hades, but at least it has a chance to clearly win in gaming where it matters most to me. If the i7 10700 does require water and if Cyberpunk2077 is good and demands more then my 7700k no issues with a 3700x. Not gonna hold my breathe and hope 4000 is on time. Ampere may be pushed till Q4 and damn it i want to rebuild this year.

 

[coercitiv]

28W Tiger Lake U sample. 2.7 base, 4.3 turbo.

4.3/3.9=1.10

“Double-digit performance gains”. This isn't funny anymore.

 

[jpiniero]

4.3/3.9=1.10

“Double-digit performance gains”. This isn't funny anymore.

The theoretical 1068G7's turbo clock is 4.1

 

[Gideon]

The theoretical 1068G7's turbo clock is 4.1

TBF the main thing that improved is multi-threaded performance

 

[coercitiv]

The theoretical 1068G7's turbo clock is 4.1

Is this product available today?

 

[jpiniero]

Is this product available today?

What laptop is going to use it will probably be announced alongside the Comet Lake Refresh launch.

 

[Exist50]

Is this product available today?

I'd assume Apple's using it in the 13" MacBook Pro, which should be updated soon.

 

[mikk]

4.3/3.9=1.10

“Double-digit performance gains”. This isn't funny anymore.

Such comments like this aren't funny anymore. If you think Icelake runs at 3.9 Ghz all the time you are deluded.

 

[coercitiv]

If you think Icelake runs at 3.9 Ghz all the time you are deluded.

You know what else is delusional? Expecting average clocks to increase considerably despite difficulties with increasing max single-core boost.

I hope they fix the i5 SKUs at least, so we don't see a repeat of the slaughter CML-U brought upon ICL-U in the value segment.

 

[ondma]

Such comments like this aren't funny anymore. If you think Icelake runs at 3.9 Ghz all the time you are deluded.

At the end of the day, that seems to me to be the biggest failure of 10nm; it doesnt appear to be any more power efficient than 14 nm. One could live with the lower clockspeeds in mobile if there was a good power savings that allowed running at sustained higher speeds, but it just doesnt seem to work out that way.

 

[naukkis]

At the end of the day, that seems to me to be the biggest failure of 10nm; it doesnt appear to be any more power efficient than 14 nm. One could live with the lower clockspeeds in mobile if there was a good power savings that allowed running at sustained higher speeds, but it just doesnt seem to work out that way.

Other parts of SOC seems to be fine expect cpu cores. If core need twice as many transistors to switch to operate it needs twice as efficient process to be at same efficiency level than it's smaller rival. Sunny Cove cores are ridiculously complex, they are totally different level than their rivals or Skylake. And they got only 18% IPC uplift from that complexity - those cores just suck.