Intel Clover Trail CPU/GPU and light gaming

[LogOver]

Than why are they said me that I can work for Cedar Trail, because Clover Trail has the same hardware and software? Also why Imagination want to write two different driver for the same IP (PowerVR SGX545)?

Intel doesn't offer windows 8 drivers for current PowerVR hardware (cedar trail), and current Win7 driver dosn't support Metro. So, again, it wont be the same driver.

But I have NV/TI/Qualcomm devplatform for Windows RT, and Tegra 3 has the best software support for Windows RT.

And how much actual windows RT software is there in the world? I guess, virtually zero.

 

[podspi]

So your's "everything" is basically UI? Even very weak Atom's 3150 adapter has enough power to accelerate UI.

We were talking about the user interface acceleration... My point is that 'everything' in the UI is accelerated.


BTW, I am not the same person you quoted, although if we expand your quote to include the context of zlatan's post, they also were indicating everything in the UI was accelerated, not ALL programs and operations will be accelerated (which would be awesome, but also impossible).

 

[Nemesis 1]

Heres a peek of an intel

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2216844/lenovo-ideatab-lynx-video-demo

 

[ShintaiDK]

And how much actual windows RT software is there in the world? I guess, virtually zero.

And about how much there ever will be.

 

[podspi]

And about how much there ever will be.

I think it depends on:


1) How well WinRT actually performs (UI performance-wise)

2) How easy it is to port between WP8<-->WinRT<-->Win8


I personally am hoping to pick up the Surface before year-end. The ability to sync apps between computers sounds awesome. I wish it also would sync between WP (Samsung Focus 2 in the mail), but sadly they are not at that level of integration yet...

 

[ShintaiDK]

I think it depends on:


1) How well WinRT actually performs (UI performance-wise)

2) How easy it is to port between WP8<-->WinRT<-->Win8


I personally am hoping to pick up the Surface before year-end. The ability to sync apps between computers sounds awesome. I wish it also would sync between WP (Samsung Focus 2 in the mail), but sadly they are not at that level of integration yet...

You forgot 3. How many tablets will actually use WinRT. Currently OEMs more or less only wants x86 tablets and laugh in the face of MS everytime they mention WinRT. Even if they make ARM tablets, they tend to prefer Android on them.

 

[podspi]

You forgot 3. How many tablets will actually use WinRT. Currently OEMs more or less only wants x86 tablets and laugh in the face of MS everytime they mention WinRT. Even if they make ARM tablets, they tend to prefer Android on them.

All they need is one That seems to work for Apple, anyway...



Win8-x86 tablets are 'safe' products, in that they allow OEMs to fight the tablets while staying in their safe Wintel haven. It is no surprise to me that the primarily x86 OEMs are focusing on x86-tablets. If the surface takes off (and Microsoft prices it high enough to give their own partners space to compete) I am sure others will follow.


I agree with you that OEM-adoption of WinRT is about as good as WP8, which is why Microsoft is throwing around that war chest making sure WinRT gets into the market no matter what.

 

[Olikan]

You forgot 3. How many tablets will actually use WinRT. Currently OEMs more or less only wants x86 tablets and laugh in the face of MS everytime they mention WinRT. Even if they make ARM tablets, they tend to prefer Android on them.

yep, they will choose the cheapest...and nothing beats ARM/android here

 

[ShintaiDK]

I agree with you that OEM-adoption of WinRT is about as good as WP8, which is why Microsoft is throwing around that war chest making sure WinRT gets into the market no matter what.

And it will be as successful as Windows Mobile.

 

[NTMBK]

yep, they will choose the cheapest...and nothing beats ARM/android here

Don't forget about the free MS Office installed on every WinRT device. That can make the calculation of what is "cheapest" for the business market very different.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Don't forget about the free MS Office installed on every WinRT device. That can make the calculation of what is "cheapest" for the business market very different.

WinRT Office aint Win8 Office.

I think thats a very important note. As a corporation we wouldnt touch WinRT Office if we got it for free.

 

[NTMBK]

WinRT Office aint Win8 Office.

I think thats a very important note. As a corporation we wouldnt touch WinRT Office if we got it for free.

It still opens and edits Office documents correctly.

 

[ShintaiDK]

It still opens and edits Office documents correctly.

Not if they use VBA, 3rd party addins or macros. Nor is there any Outlook for your corporate mail. Plus alot of other things....what MS refers to as: "Small number" of other missing features.

Macros, add-ins, and features that rely on ActiveX controls or 3rd party code such as the PowerPoint Slide Library ActiveX control and Flash Video Playback
Certain legacy features such as playing older media formats in PowerPoint (upgrade to modern formats and they will play) and editing equations written in Equation Editor 3.0, which was used in older versions of Office (viewing works fine)
Certain email sending features, since Windows RT does not support Outlook or other desktop mail applications (opening a mail app, such as the mail app that comes with Windows RT devices, and inserting your Office content works fine)
Creating a Data Model in Excel 2013 RT (PivotTables, QueryTables, Pivot Charts work fine)
Recording narrations in PowerPoint 2013 RT
Searching embedded audio/video files, recording audio/video notes, and importing from an attached scanner with OneNote 2013 RT (inserting audio/video notes or scanned images from another program works fine)

Mainly due to the poor ARM performance, storage limits and to conserve battery.

Not to mention it will ship with a preview edition if I aint mistaken.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Your best choice is an AMD Hondo based convertible tablet and use AMD AppZone for Android apps and GPU acceleration. You will get the best game, driver and software support. inetl is notorious for bottom of the barel graphics performance, image corruption, rendering problems, poor driver support etc, etc. If gaming is in any way part of your criteria AMD is the only way to go now and for the forseeable future.

OT

 

[Nemesis 1]

Damn I didn't even consider this! Any idea if there are any Hondo tablets in the pipeline for win8 launch?

OT

 

[Nemesis 1]

If you want good legacy experience, you may look for an AMD Hondo tablet. You will get a Brazos-like experience.
For the best Windows RT experience you may buy a Tegra 3 tablet.

OT

 

[Nemesis 1]

No one itroduced tablets based on Hondo yet. Since Hondo has 4.5W TDP (vs. 1.7W for Clover Trail) it is still unclear if we can expect fanless design. Also it has very low cpu clock so I would not expect much performance advantage ove clover trail (if any).

OT

 

[zlatan]

Intel doesn't offer windows 8 drivers for current PowerVR hardware (cedar trail), and current Win7 driver dosn't support Metro. So, again, it wont be the same driver.

Intel never offered graphics driver for PowerVR based Atoms. They just get the binary code from Imagination and create a package for it.
Why do you want a public version of the developer driver? You will have a driver when Windows 8 releases.
Also do you think that a developer can work for Clover Trail without a devplatform and documentation. I think everybody do what i did: get a Cedar Trail, and install the Clover Trail devdriver. Cedar Trail and Clover Trail uses the same IGP, with different clock.

And how much actual windows RT software is there in the world? I guess, virtually zero.

Why do I need a released Win RT software? I can write a code for testing.

 

[NTMBK]

Mainly due to the poor ARM performance

This old chestnut again? Do I really need to repost the Atom vs. Krait benchmarks?

Hadn't heard about the removal of so many features from WinRT, though. Pretty crappy move on MS' part. I wonder how much of that is due to software environment- given that VBA can have hooks into any arbitrary native code, support would require opening up the platform a lot more. (Which would be a good thing in my eyes, but I don't think that's what Microsoft want.)

Nemesis, is your keyboard stuck?

 

[Gabik123]

OK, so MS released pricing for the Surface today...and I've narrowed myself down to the Ativ Smart PC (Series 5 slate) from samsung and the Surface RT 32gb (I have another 32gb micro-SD card).

Now...I'm probably going to limit myself to win store apps. Frankly, if there is a galaxy on fire port with touch controls for win8, who needs freelancer? And hell, if rome total war works, my gaming needs are met on the x86. I doubt very much, though, that I will ever really use it for gaming - i have a desktop for that. More likley, this will be a laptop replacement and media consumption device (reading, watching netflix/hulu, downloaded video files).

The samsung has desktop mode, which is a nice perk but I don't know how much I'll actually end up using it, and it has the keyboard dock with the battery and S-Pen functionality, which I may actually use. I like the slightly bigger screen on the samsung, and its build well. And I have $75 available for use from amazon, so that knocks the tax right off.

On the other hand, the surface is still about $100 less, storage doesn't matter to me, and its build quality is almost certainly better. It comes with office, and the missing features like macros don't bug me at all - I'm a lawyer and I write alot of basic word docs, and the RT can handle that. The typing keyboard would be the way that I go.

I followed all the conversation about the graphics driver/hardware situation. Honestly, cutting through it, I'm looking at the Samsung, with keyboard dock, being $100 more than the surface RT, which is an inch smaller, no pen, half the memory. How is the tegra 3 GPU vs. the Clover Field GPU? And honestly, despite it being an atom, general performance in win8 on the ativ seems great in all the hands on videos...

I guess I'm just asking what all you guys would do

 

[Gabik123]

Intel never offered graphics driver for PowerVR based Atoms. They just get the binary code from Imagination and create a package for it.
Why do you want a public version of the developer driver? You will have a driver when Windows 8 releases.
Also do you think that a developer can work for Clover Trail without a devplatform and documentation. I think everybody do what i did: get a Cedar Trail, and install the Clover Trail devdriver. Cedar Trail and Clover Trail uses the same IGP, with different clock.


Why do I need a released Win RT software? I can write a code for testing.

How is it for basic video watching, netflix use, reading, etc?

And you said freelancer worked fine?

 

[Gabik123]

The w700 probably isn't a bad choice, an i3 with HD4k graphics is a pretty solid machine, even for light gaming. I would triple check to make sure you're getting the HD4000 and not the cut-down HD2500 though.

Its REALLY tempting...but no keyboard dock and ugly ass superfulous cradle killed it for me

 

[Gabik123]

I'd wait until you see some reviews- it's quite likely that Hondo will beat Clovertrail in performance, but the battery life is the thing to watch out for.

As others have said, 1st gen Windows 8 tablets won't be too great- both Intel and AMD are bringing out "stopgap" chips for tablets, not their A-game. If you can, I'd hang on until Valleyview and Jaguar are out. Valleyview is the first refresh of Atom's design since Atom originally came out, so I'd expect a pretty big improvement!

Honestly, I'm too much of an early adopter to wait, and I need a laptop-style device now anyways, so its the best time to get one. I've sort of changed what my expectations for use on the device will be, so I'm not sure i need the A-Game, and if its so much better, I'll just sell this tablet on craigslist to finance the new one

 

[Gabik123]

This is what it comes down to, for me...

Ativ Pros - 11.6" screen, almost the same weight as the surface, atom processor means x86 windows experience, S-Pen, keyboard + tablet only ~ $100 more than surface RT, double the memory of the surface RT, full office support, bigger app store that doesnt require ARM-conversion of apps. Real keyboard dock. Keyboard dock includes external battery pack. Custom samsung software looks useful.

Ativ Cons - Unknown real-world performance of the GPU in win8 (the tegra 3 may end up being more powerful), more expensive than surface RT + microSD card to even out the storage, bigger and heavier, its an atom processor, design quality and materials compared to surface RT

Surface RT Pros - Microsoft signature produce = lots of support, even in microsoft stores. Microsoft designed windows RT to work on the tegra 3, so better optimization. Better materials and build quality - this isn't a repurposed, bigger galaxy note tab. Office (though not the full version) is included. Amazing screen, by all accounts. Kickstand.

Surface RT Cons - Unknown ecosystem for apps (how many developers will release RT apps, how easy is it to convert apps to RT?). Smaller screen than Ativ. No included stylus means will be harder to carry one around. Keyboard doesnt include the external battery capability.

 

[Nemesis 1]

This old chestnut again? Do I really need to repost the Atom vs. Krait benchmarks?

Hadn't heard about the removal of so many features from WinRT, though. Pretty crappy move on MS' part. I wonder how much of that is due to software environment- given that VBA can have hooks into any arbitrary native code, support would require opening up the platform a lot more. (Which would be a good thing in my eyes, but I don't think that's what Microsoft want.)

Nemesis, is your keyboard stuck?

No its not . But ya see I don't like the red triangle. So I just marked OT . I wasn't complaining about them just marking them .