Intel chip to include antipiracy features. Does anyone know if this is true? Just wondering.

[ElFenix]

this is one half of MS's palladium. which they say will stop viruses and crap. my arse. the biggest viruses are those email ones and this doesn't help that. this even scares consumers out of legitimate software. already MS does validation on drivers and if you don't get your driver validated a box pops up claiming all sorts of bad things will happen, even though its the newest driver from the manufacturer's site. you have no clue how bad it is until you have people calling tech support to get drivers.

 

[ripthesystem]

I just finished mailin Intel to voice my concerns/complaints over this news. I suggest that everyone follow suit.

Here is the contact list:
http://www.intel.com/feedback.htm?iid=Homepage+Header_Contact&

HTH
ripthesystem

 

[CurtCold]

Surely there will be a way to "step around" this stystem. I dunno, but I will not buy a chip that's going to be telln' everyone where I've been, or likely going. That's defenately infringing on my personal privacy. I cannot believe they are trying to pull this crap. I can stick with the system I have now for a couple of years, most anyone should be able to run their games and apps with a 2.8ghz p4 anyway. By the time this all gets implemented you could prolly go dual CPU if you had to also. So I'm not too worried about it. LINUX here I come....

 

[wfbberzerker]

if this stuff is working together with ms' palladium, i bet it doesnt even let you run alternative OSes.

 

[Macro2]

I was wondering when someone was going to AWAKEN to this.
For the technology to work it has to be a joint venture between hardware and software. Therefore those who have figured out MS is involved ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. If I recall this will be implemented in chips made by Intel starting in October.
Double edged sword of course. Increase privacy on one end but control piracy on the other. RIAA and MIAA will love it but I suspect there will be work arounds.
As far as I know AMD will be implementing the same thing so I guess it's Cyrix and/or another OS...

 

[GTaudiophile]

If it's as bad as it could be, I don't see how anyone could go working for the likes of Intel/AMD.

 

[Macro2]

More...of same...
Go ahead and buy those Intel chips in October... Hey maybe non-spy chips will sell at a premium?

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=528&ncid=52...
By MATTHEW FORDAHL, AP Technology Writer

SAN JOSE, Calif. (AP) - In the latest attempt to protect digital information from viruses and hackers, Intel Corp. will integrate advanced security features into its microprocessors and other hardware.

The security features, announced Monday at the Intel's conference for developers, will be implemented in processors as early as next year, said Paul Otellini, Intel's president and chief operating officer.

Code-named LaGrande Technology, the features will create a "vault" in which data is safely stored and processed. Intel also will secure the pathways within the computer, such as between the vault and the display or keyboard.

"It's a new level of safer computing," Otellini said during a keynote address.

The company did not release many details about LaGrande but said it will work in conjunction with other hardware and software-based security efforts such as Microsoft Corp.'s Palladium.

Such technologies will not only keep hackers and viruses from infiltrating data stored or being processed on a computer but also could lock music or video files onto a particular computer, preventing unauthorized sharing.

In other developments at the conference, Intel said it will soon start selling Pentium 4 processors with a new technology that effectively tricks software into thinking it is running on two processors instead of one.

The technology, called "hyper-threading," is already in production in processors used in servers. Otellini said it will be included in Pentium 4s running at 3 gigahertz by the end of the year.

Intel also said it will continue to boost the speed of its processors. During one demonstration, a Pentium 4 set a new speed record ? 4.7 GHz."

 

[wfbberzerker]

how is the technology supposed to discern between a hacker or virus and an online program or someone accessing your data if youre a server?

 

[Macro2]

It's bad...
There will be work arounds/mod chips etc. but it will shrink the pool of people that can actually implement these fixes and DL stuff.
That's how they plan it. A couple of years ago Intel wanted to put tracible seria; numbers on there chips but the privacy people raised so much hell they backed down. Now with the help of MS and Congress they are gonna try it again.

 

[Macro2]

It's bad...
There will be work arounds/mod chips etc. but it will shrink the pool of people that can actually implement these fixes and DL stuff.
That's how they plan it. A couple of years ago Intel wanted to put tracible seria; numbers on there chips but the privacy people raised so much hell they backed down. Now with the help of MS and Congress they are gonna try it again.

 

[ripthesystem]

Originally posted by: wfbberzerker
how is the technology supposed to discern between a hacker or virus and an online program or someone accessing your data if youre a server?

Microsoft will tell it...

What don't you Trust them?

 

[ToBeMe]

Originally posted by: ripthesystem

Originally posted by: wfbberzerker
how is the technology supposed to discern between a hacker or virus and an online program or someone accessing your data if youre a server?

Microsoft will tell it...

What don't you Trust them?

Thing is.............this isn't JUST MS...............Intel, AMD, and others are involved and have apparently all agreed (probably with much lobbying by RIAA and others) on this so the blame can not lay with MS alone..............

 

[CrazySaint]

Originally posted by: ToBeMe

Originally posted by: ripthesystem

Originally posted by: wfbberzerker
how is the technology supposed to discern between a hacker or virus and an online program or someone accessing your data if youre a server?

Microsoft will tell it...

What don't you Trust them?

Thing is.............this isn't JUST MS...............Intel, AMD, and others are involved and have apparently all agreed (probably with much lobbying by RIAA and others) on this so the blame can not lay with MS alone..............

Except that MS is running the software end of it, so MS does, in fact, tell it what's allowed and what isn't.

 

[dexvx]

Originally posted by: Macro2
It's bad...
There will be work arounds/mod chips etc. but it will shrink the pool of people that can actually implement these fixes and DL stuff.
That's how they plan it. A couple of years ago Intel wanted to put tracible seria; numbers on there chips but the privacy people raised so much hell they backed down. Now with the help of MS and Congress they are gonna try it again.

Oh please, you make it sound as if Intel started the whole thing. The processor ID in the P3 wasnt even fully implemented in the final revision because it wasnt even fully programmed. The processor ID was part of a long-since canceled (at that time) project. All the privacy groups created a fuss over nothing. Oh no... all network cards have a unique Mac address... run!!!

Besides the DMCA or whatever, Microsoft was the first to implement it on the software level with Palladium. AMD embraced it while Intel at first rejected it. Due to pressure from the various *cough RIAA MPAA Fritz Holling cough* groups, Intel later joined in with the Microsoft.

Look in other forum's threads about this subject, such as Arstechnica and hardocp.

 

[pm]

Oh please, you make it sound as if Intel started the whole thing. The processor ID in the P3 wasnt even fully implemented in the final revision because it wasnt even fully programmed. The processor ID was part of a long-since canceled (at that time) project. All the privacy groups created a fuss over nothing. Oh no... all network cards have a unique Mac address... run!!!

Actually, the unique processor serial number has been implemented in all Pentium III, Pentium 4, most newer Xeons and some newer Celerons- there's just a BIOS option to "opt-out" of the serial number being displayed which is set by default. But it's still there. See Application Note 485 for details (link).

The thing that I never understood about the "processor serial number" fuss was that RISC workstations and servers have had unique serial number ID's for literally decades, as dexvx pointed out, MAC addresses on network cards are unique and can be used as a serial number, Internet IP addresses along with the date and time are effectively serial numbers, many IA32 motherboards - particularly high-end ones- have had unique identifying serial numbers in internal registers in the chipsets for quite a while. There are a lot of ways to identify people, why make such a big fuss about the CPUID serial number? And, why, while making all this fuss about the serial number, did everyone lose focus and somehow let the DMCA slip past with all of it's lovely additions involving reverse engineering, etc.?

In the case of this technology, I can understand the concern people have. I share those concerns myself. But whether hardware support for these things is implemented, and whatever form it takes, one thing is true - that software needs to use it. I always figure that if things get too silly on the Windows platform, there's always Linux. I'm already a little unimpressed with some of the "features" in Windows XP (like when you put in a CD, it does a CDDB lookup in Microsoft's servers - while this is a service, MS now knows what CD's that I'm listening to and could sell the information). The Windows activation stuff is currently just a general annoyance, but if something were put in that interfered with my life, I'd probably just switch to Linux. About all that I currently like about Windows over Linux is the interface with my digital camera, and games. If it weren't for these two things, I'd probably ditch Windows today. Since I can't imagine all of the Linux developers implementing DRM in their software, I have some certain comfort in the fact that I have a choice in OS. I can always switch if the negatives on one outweigh the positive aspects.

 

[AnitaPeterson]

OK, time to ask this:

How long will it take for fledgling hi-tech industries in countries such as Russia or China to begin producing their own processors? Well, think about how good their hackers are, and how these countries, once they get their economies up and running smoothly, they will be powers that need to be reckoned with. We saw this in software - Croteam did Serious Sa: who in hell would've thought a that a Croatian small company would come out with two of the most sucessful FPS of all times, now even used as a benchmark? Should this scenario come true, I doubt these new processors will include all these fancy "anti-piracy" features...

While this might sound crazy now, I'm sure that in a few years building microprocessors *COULD* become an easier task than nowadays. After all, what is it that we are looking for: speed or comfort? Of course, these new chips (Crusoe, anyone?) won't be 9 nm technology, 128-bit and 4 GHz, but whatever... let's be honest for a moment: what's the average speed at which the world computes today? 800 MHz or so, if you ask me, because the world is more than the U.S. , and the upgrade cycle is slower overseas - even in North America, at the corporate and academic level, some still use Pentium-166 machines... We've seen customization become increasingly important in other fields before, so why not computers?

 

[Macro2]

RE:"Oh please, you make it sound as if Intel started the whole thing."

Sorry, I did not mean to single out Intel. OTOH, the whole scheme this time around won't work without Intel. No way.

If you work for Intel please identify yourself as such.

Mac

 

[dexvx]

I work for a utility company that was tied to Enron ( ). I volunteer (no pay) at an Intel Q&A lab just because I like screwing around with all the latest and greatest high end desktop/workstation/low-mid level server hardware. Who doesnt like messing with Cisco/Foundaries/Alectrich (or whatever) 10 gigabit fibre switches? Although the only thing the lab is missing right now is an Itanium II machine because some high end manager decided Intel has no need to validate a certain i-SCSI/gigabit adapter for the Itanium platform.

But as I recall, there was nothing to implement that Pentium III unique serial ID. That'd be like if you have Internet Capability, but never used it, which is just as good as not having it in the first place.

 

[pm]

If you work for Intel please identify yourself as such.

Intel employees are required by company policy to identify themselves clearly when discussing Intel, or the computing industry as it relates to Intel and make it clear that they are not company representatives. Violations in the past have frequently resulted in the person being fired and most people at Intel take the policy very seriously.

 

[jurzdevil]

"control the use of their products. "

that bugs the hell out of me. if i buy a chainsaw from sears they give warnings on what can injure you or say how you should use it but not control how you use it. in my mind, once you buy something its yours. i know some companies say they are selling you the rights to use the software but if you get a copy of the software its yours.

if they are going to start controlling how consumers use something they buy then they should do it for everything. not just digital stuff. so i should not be able to use my chainsaw in a manner other than directed and forget about loaning it to a friend. thats piracy.

 

[dexvx]

Originally posted by: pm

If you work for Intel please identify yourself as such.

Intel employees are required by company policy to identify themselves clearly when discussing Intel, or the computing industry as it relates to Intel and make it clear that they are not company representatives. Violations in the past have frequently resulted in the person being fired and most people at Intel take the policy very seriously.

Does that apply to green badge people too?

 

[ToBeMe]

Originally posted by: CrazySaint

Originally posted by: ToBeMe

Originally posted by: ripthesystem

Originally posted by: wfbberzerker
how is the technology supposed to discern between a hacker or virus and an online program or someone accessing your data if youre a server?

Microsoft will tell it...

What don't you Trust them?

Thing is.............this isn't JUST MS...............Intel, AMD, and others are involved and have apparently all agreed (probably with much lobbying by RIAA and others) on this so the blame can not lay with MS alone..............

Except that MS is running the software end of it, so MS does, in fact, tell it what's allowed and what isn't.

Whatever...........some people seem to have to put blame directly on a specific company all the time............especially if the company happens to be MS! Tell me...where would this all be if AMD or Intel said no?????

 

[CubicZirconia]

Originally posted by: Maggotry

Originally posted by: CubicZirconia
I was watching The ScreenSavers on techtv and they said that the next amd cpu's will have similar features.

Was that statement in reference to the hammer line of cpu's?

I believe so.

 

[pm]

Does that apply to green badge people too?

No, it doesn't. And I hadn't read your reply before posting, or I might have toned down my message so as not to worry you. Green badge employees are not employees of Intel Corp., they are contract workers. The policy applies only to "blue badge" employees... the ones with the white badges.

 

[dlance]

I think you are refering to Microsofts Palladium which has been in development for awhile..and has been a spark of much debate for sometime.

You can find more information at sites like Slashdot.org

Or here's a quick link to an article.. This month's CryptoGram from Bruce Schneier

For a low down..this technology is getting a HUGE push from the Media industry that worries about piracy and not digging further into online/broadband support since they feel it will just promote more people stealing things like movies and music