Intel Cannonlake SoC will have 4-core, 6-core and 8-core versions

[frozentundra123456]

Intel is facing a toxic mix of stiff competition with their own 4+ year old chips, dwindling consumer PC sales and escalating fab costs. The last thing they want in the consumer segment is even more cores and larger die sizes.

On the other hand, you could argue that in a stagnant market, you really need to shake things up and give the high end users a reason to upgrade. I don't think die size should be a problem. Instead of devoting half the die to igp, they could add two cores and include a minimal igp. The bigger problem is the cost of making a new die I guess. I can see how Intel would view selling server rejects as more profitable than developing a new chip, but I think if you focus too obsessively on profit at the expense of your customers, it will eventually hurt you. Maybe they should quit throwing money down the mobile rat hole and focus on performance for a while. I was hoping skylake would do this, but it just turns out to be another mobile oriented chip with the focus on Igp and power savings.

 

[DrMrLordX]

They need to compete against those 6-core Apple SoCs, right? :awe:

[/sarcasm]

Or the decacore Mediatek SoCs.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Not so tiny. See this:
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-34117120

"Intel claims something like 10% of the PC market is extreme gamers."

And that's just the "extreme" gamers, whatever that means. But it is safe to assume they are enthusiasts with really high performance hardware, that likely will benefit from and desire more cores in the years ahead. Add to that other users that use their desktop for video editing, compiling code, etc.

And how is this related to the mainstream/performance platform and 6-8 cores?

People wanting 6-8 cores buy HEDT. Its a no brainer to get quad channel and the extra PCIe lanes if you are such an "extreme gamer". You cant even get full bandwidth on a highend NVME drive on LGA1151. Not to mention the 95W issue.

Then you and whoever can keep advocating for an unbalanced platform to save 50$ on a CPU and not feeling left behind. Its not making it any better.

 

[ShintaiDK]

That makes no sense, NVLink isn't implemented in Intel CPUs, and I don't see how it could be. It's an NV technology, how in the world would Intel have any say in it?

Yep, that's not going to happen. Specially not since Intel competes with NVidia in HPC. And certainly not for the other countless reasons.

 

[Fjodor2001]

And how is this related to the mainstream/performance platform and 6-8 cores?

-What CPU do "extreme gamers" mostly buy? 4770K and friends.
-What's the difference between 4770K vs 4670K and friends? The prior has 8 threads, the latter 4. (And on Skylake the prior equivalent has a few extra 100 Mhz.)
-What does this tell us? Extreme gamers want 8 thread CPUs on mainstream platform.
-Will 8 pure cores be better than 4C/8T as currently for 8 thread loads? Yes, a lot better.

Conclusion: There is demand for mainstream 8 core CPUs among extreme gamers and similar, which account for 10-15+ percent of the desktop market, i.e. a lot.

People wanting 6-8 cores buy HEDT.

No they don't, because it's paired with an old chipset, an old uArch, an old process node, and it's over-priced (for the 8 core SKU).

I think the best thing for Intel would be to:
-Make the HEDT platform use the latest chipset, uArch, and process node. I.e. more or less as things used to be a couple of years ago.
-Price the 8 core SKU a bit lower.

But they won't do that, because they are artificially segmenting the market to protect their high margin server SKUs. And they can continue doing that until they get some competition, which we might get with Zen if we're lucky. But I know you hope that'll never happen so we'll continue getting 5% yearly performance increases and 4 cores from Intel.

 

[dark zero]

That makes no sense, NVLink isn't implemented in Intel CPUs, and I don't see how it could be. It's an NV technology, how in the world would Intel have any say in it?

It is since Nvilink is compatible with x86 (since Intel is not accepting them... They will go with AMD)

Also is an alternative to PCI only compatible to their GPU's. But their main use is the computing power... It's Intel new rival since they competes in HPC.

 

[frozentundra123456]

And how is this related to the mainstream/performance platform and 6-8 cores?

People wanting 6-8 cores buy HEDT. Its a no brainer to get quad channel and the extra PCIe lanes if you are such an "extreme gamer". You cant even get full bandwidth on a highend NVME drive on LGA1151. Not to mention the 95W issue.

Then you and whoever can keep advocating for an unbalanced platform to save 50$ on a CPU and not feeling left behind. Its not making it any better.

So now you are not really disputing the fact that there *is* a market for a hex core, huh? But why do they buy HEDT? It could be because of the platform features, but it could also be BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO OTHER OPTION!!

Basically, Intel has the market by the b***S and forces one to buy a two generation old chip just to get six cores. Nice. There is no data of course, but all else being equal, I bet a lot of power users would prefer the higher IPC of Skylake to the extra features of the HEDT platform. I have to be careful or I will start rooting for Zen, but I am already sick of the hype for that chip.

 

[ShintaiDK]

-What CPU do "extreme gamers" mostly buy? 4770K and friends.

Show me the documentation.

 

[ShintaiDK]

So now you are not really disputing the fact that there *is* a market for a hex core, huh? But why do they buy HEDT? It could be because of the platform features, but it could also be BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO OTHER OPTION!!

Basically, Intel has the market by the b***S and forces one to buy a two generation old chip just to get six cores. Nice. There is no data of course, but all else being equal, I bet a lot of power users would prefer the higher IPC of Skylake to the extra features of the HEDT platform. I have to be careful or I will start rooting for Zen, but I am already sick of the hype for that chip.

You are trying to make the LGA115x into a hexcore/octocore 140W market. While its not fitted for such.

If what you want is Skylake on HEDT. Then you should root for that.

 

[Fjodor2001]

Show me the documentation.

Otherwise I would not consider them to be "extreme" gamers, would you? If anything I guess some of them are even buying HEDT CPUs already instead.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Otherwise I would not consider them to be "extreme" gamers, would you? If anything I guess some of them are even buying HEDT CPUs already instead.

So personal speculation presented as fact?

How is your own view on others with this? Double standards again?

 

[dark zero]

People eventually will leave the big Core market to move to the Atom segment since it is enough for what they do.
So it will be a miracle if Intel adds more cores.
AMD is dead, so if Cannonlake don't add cores, nothing more will do, even more, with new materials(graphene) we might return to the single core.
Yeah a Single Core of 20Ghz graphene processor will be enough for most tasks.

 

[ComputerGuy2006]

So personal speculation presented as fact?

How is your own view on others with this? Double standards again?

Seems a lot people (including me) are less interested in HEDT due to all the reasons listed in this thread. We want more cores. Just because we do not want to invest in an old platform does not mean we do not want more cores.

Things that can use more cores:

- more and more games (including dx12 and game engines)
- vmware
- encoding
- rendering / photoshop
- chess AI and game analysis
- file compression (like 7zip)
- encryption/decryption
- OS and many apps are getting better

etc. So yes, I very much want 6 or 8 core, instead of just a 5% IPC improvement.

 

[VirtualLarry]

It is since Nvilink is compatible with x86 (since Intel is not accepting them... They will go with AMD)

Also is an alternative to PCI only compatible to their GPU's. But their main use is the computing power... It's Intel new rival since they competes in HPC.

Can you at least try to post something factual once in a while? The only CPUs that I am aware of that have announced with NVLink support, are some from OpenPOWER.

I'm not aware of anything in NVLink that is specific in any way to x86, and even if it were, how would that get implemented in the real world? Intel wouldn't, NV is a competitor. AMD wouldn't either, they're a competitor too. And NV themselves doesn't have an x86 license. Who does that leave? Via??? HA! (That would be interesting, to see their newest low-power x86-compatible CPU with an NVLink interface, with a powerful NV GPU tied to a, what, 4W CPU?)

 

[tential]

I am not defending anyone. But I look at it from a different perspective. What you ask or is that Intel makes a design, mask, production runs etc for a tiny niche of people who want a dual channel 6-8 core chip without IGP on a mainstream platform limited to 95W. See the issue?

Until software radically changes its not needed and serves no purpose for the 99.x% crowd. And they are better of with better IGP, more cache, EDRAM, integrated PCH or whatever.

No one cares. They want hexcores because they want it cheaper and more recent. Not because it's a financially viable or intelligent thing to do.

Personally I want one too. But I don't expect it to be a mainstream chip and since any chip you have is probably good enough for the foreseeable future, I have a lot of time to wait and save up until I actually want something.


Not need, WANT

 

[frozentundra123456]

You are trying to make the LGA115x into a hexcore/octocore 140W market. While its not fitted for such.

If what you want is Skylake on HEDT. Then you should root for that.

You just keep pushing HEDT, and the point you seem to be ignoring is that it is always one and sometimes (like now) 2 generations behind the mainstream. I am saying a enthusiasts want 6 cores on the best architecture on the best node.

 

[tential]

Even more hilarious people advocating for a mainstream 6 core chip while the vast majority of "extreme" gamers won't even purchase i7s with their rigs.

Lol this is why the cpu discussion is a joke, people here are stupidly out of touch with reality.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I am saying a enthusiasts want 6 cores on the best architecture on the best node.

But are they really willing to pay for it? Or do they want an "i9" (hex-core) at i5 pricing? (Granted, if you removed the IGP, it would probably cost Intel less money per die for a mainstream hex-core, than current quad-core + huge IGP.)

 

[dark zero]

Even more hilarious people advocating for a mainstream 6 core chip while the vast majority of "extreme" gamers won't even purchase i7s with their rigs.

Lol this is why the cpu discussion is a joke, people here are stupidly out of touch with reality.

And reality is now that gamers are getting less and less... And the best chip they use is a Pentium. Most people has now ARM phone or an Atom tablet.

 

[AtenRa]

You just keep pushing HEDT, and the point you seem to be ignoring is that it is always one and sometimes (like now) 2 generations behind the mainstream. I am saying a enthusiasts want 6 cores on the best architecture on the best node.

That is exactly what we want but not what we will get with no competition.

 

[AtenRa]

But are they really willing to pay for it? Or do they want an "i9" (hex-core) at i5 pricing? (Granted, if you removed the IGP, it would probably cost Intel less money per die for a mainstream hex-core, than current quad-core + huge IGP.)

As i said above, no competition no gains.

Also, until games will start to NEED more than 4 cores/threads as minimum to play them, i dont expect any 6-8 cores for the client SKUs from Intel.

 

[ShintaiDK]

That is exactly what we want but not what we will get with no competition.

Like "competition" would change anything.

Software needs to radically change. Else there so no incentive. And we can see plenty of people buying i5 over i7.

By we, how many are we talking about?

 

[ShintaiDK]

Even more hilarious people advocating for a mainstream 6 core chip while the vast majority of "extreme" gamers won't even purchase i7s with their rigs.

Lol this is why the cpu discussion is a joke, people here are stupidly out of touch with reality.

That's a very good point. :biggrin:

 

[superstition]

Ashes with a 390X on High at 1600p (PC Perspective), DX11 results in parentheses, turbo speeds next to base:

i7-6700K (4.0-4.2 GHz) = 48.7 (38.1)
i7-5960X (3.0-3.5 GHz) = 45.8 (34.9)
i3-4330 (3.5-3.5 GHz) = 40.6 (28.0)
FX 8370 (4.0-4.3 GHz) = 36.4 (23.8)
FX 6300 (3.5-4.2 GHz) = 31.8 (21.9)

The gain for that i3 over DX11 with that AMD GPU is pretty staggering. So, if even a cutting-edge DX12 RTS title is just using 2 real cores it doesn't look like heavily multi-core loading gaming is coming anytime soon. Maybe it's just this game but it doesn't look like developers, judging by Ashes, are targeting anything beyond an i3. This is probably a consequence of shrinking PC sales — making developers have to be broader (and more minimal) in their hardware targeting.

That said, a whopping 2 cores plus hyperthreading seems to be mandatory as a minimum given the stuttering issues with certain engines and the Anniversary Pentium.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Oh and BTW Shintai, if Intel is so magnanimous as to let us buy their HEDT platform, how do they reward you for purchasing the only chip with close to mainstream pricing? They nerf the PCI-E lanes. Nice. Probably not a problem now, but it could be in the future with more powerful gpus.