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Intel Cannonlake, Ice Lake, Tiger Lake & Sapphire rapid thread

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Dayman1225

Senior member
Aug 14, 2017
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Yea, that's why I see no point of WHL-U mere 6 months before Icelake. No sane manufacturer is going to get that over Icelake.
It kinda reminds me of now? KBL R, then CFL U. Now we have WHL U then ICL Y/U. The difference is CFL U offers a IGPU boost and 14nm++ manufacturing tech over KBL R. What does WHL U offer? Maybe it uses ICL PCH?
 

mikk

Platinum Member
May 15, 2012
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Yea, that's why I see no point of WHL-U mere 6 months before Icelake. No sane manufacturer is going to get that over Icelake.

If it is pin compatible to KBL-R OEMs should be able to replace existing KBL-R notebooks with WHL-U without much efforts. Obviously ICL requires a completely new validation task on a new platform. Cannonlake-U looks indeed canceled which is a good thing.
 
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IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
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If it is pin compatible to KBL-R OEMs should be able to replace existing KBL-R notebooks with WHL-U without much efforts.
Seriously, this doesn't work. Notebooks require significant amount of work to optimize for power consumption and performance. Even if its electrically and physically compatible between the two, the minute details may require rework. Even if that wasn't true, as a customer you still need to buy an entirely new notebook to take advantage of it.

You are expecting a notebook vendor to sell a premium device for 6 months before replacing it with a new one. There's a reason product cycles are annual. Actually, its slightly longer than 12 months, something like 13. Certain vendors take even longer to introduce a platform. There's the problem of significant overlap too.

Don't get caught up in the technicals and ignore the human side. These devices are made and designed by humans to sell to humans. Having good relationships with the people you deal with are as critical as the product itself.
 
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jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
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Yea, that's why I see no point of WHL-U mere 6 months before Icelake. No sane manufacturer is going to get that over Icelake.
It'll be closer to a year in practice I imagine. Notice the wide range of RTS for Icelake U/Y. I bet it ends up being ww20'19 or even later. Meanwhile Intel is rushing out Whiskey Lake to replace Cannonlake-U.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
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It kinda reminds me of now? KBL R, then CFL U. Now we have WHL U then ICL Y/U. The difference is CFL U offers a IGPU boost and 14nm++ manufacturing tech over KBL R. What does WHL U offer? Maybe it uses ICL PCH?
Kabylake-R features an integrated ISP which is critical for smaller Core based Tablets as it allows for higher quality webcams without the extra BoM and board area. I assume based on the timeframe Whiskey Lake U is a replacement of that.

Coffeelake-U then becomes the replacement for higher end Ultrabooks where premium graphics are needed. If they could have done it, I bet they would want to have an ISP in both, but the timeframe didn't work out. It's plausible since they want to launch 300-series chipset for Desktops early next year, that's what'll be bundled with CFL-U.

For Whiskey Lake,

the poster claims Prod ww27-34 for WHL-U, and Prod ww51'18-12'19 RTS ww07-20'19 for ICL-U. RTS for WHL-U doesn't exist, but if its planning to be released, obviously there is an RTS date. There seems to be an 8-10 weeks gap between Prod and RTS dates. Assuming 8 weeks that means,

Early August-Mid October 2018 for Whiskeylake-U launch, and Early February-Early May for Icelake-U launch. Best case scenario, we're looking at 9 months difference between the two, and worst case scenario we're looking at 3.5 months, with an average of 6 months.

Now you see why I am saying that is crazy!? Unless Whiskeylake-U offers something Icelake-U does not. No one, I mean no one will offer a WHL-U replacement as ICL-U that early when it takes a couple of months just to get the volume ramp and the marketing teams all ready. Heck, try buying a notebook right after Intel announcement. You can't get it for 2-3 months after announcement. Why not just completely ignore WHL-U and wait few more months for ICL-U? They've done that in the past. It will happen again because we, as human beings don't change, even though technology does.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,523
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I'll concede that it's a wiki page built on user input. But "pure guesswork" I don't think is an accurate depiction.
It says so on the pages...it says it may even be made up...

Preliminary Data! Information presented in this article deal with a microprocessor or chip that was recently announced or leaked, thus missing information regarding its features and exact specification. Information may be incomplete and can change by final release.
Leaked Info! Some of the information presented in this article is solely based on leaks that were published online or obtained directly by WikiChip. It goes without saying that this information could change, be incomplete, wrong, or even made up. It's highly advised to wait for an official product announcement.
 
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goldstone77

Senior member
Dec 12, 2017
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It says so on the pages...it says it may even be made up...
And if you read everything expect for the words highlighted in bold print "pure guesswork" isn't entirely accurate now is it. Time will tell how much, if any, of the information actually changes. The first picture depicted comes from Intel's own slides. The second picture of the list of processors is a mixture of leaked information, and maybe some guessing. Note" they all use hyperthreading! Let's see how that pans out.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,523
1,565
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And if you read everything expect for the words highlighted in bold print "pure guesswork" isn't entirely accurate now is it. Time will tell how much, if any, of the information actually changes. The first picture depicted comes from Intel's own slides. The second picture of the list of processors is a mixture of leaked information, and maybe some guessing. Note" they all use hyperthreading! Let's see how that pans out.
Yes, if something is made up, it has to be guesswork.

So far, there is no sign of these 9000 series chips anywhere except the rumor mill.

There is no sign whatsoever of an 8 core desktop chip from Intel, for example.

I stand by my opinion that the wikichip 9000 series pages are pure guesswork based on leaks.

If the leaks turn out to be true, that won't change the fact that right now the pages about the chips are guesswork.

I'd be delighted to see an 8 core 9700K chip in 2018.

We haven't even seen any good signs of the rest of the 8000 series lineup...
 

mikk

Platinum Member
May 15, 2012
2,626
545
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Now you see why I am saying that is crazy!? Unless Whiskeylake-U offers something Icelake-U does not. No one, I mean no one will offer a WHL-U replacement as ICL-U that early when it takes a couple of months just to get the volume ramp and the marketing teams all ready. Heck, try buying a notebook right after Intel announcement. You can't get it for 2-3 months after announcement. Why not just completely ignore WHL-U and wait few more months for ICL-U? They've done that in the past. It will happen again because we, as human beings don't change, even though technology does.

I'm sure you are wrong on this. If it's an easy change to KBL-R (same BGA package) I can see many OEMs refreshing their current KBL-R notebooks with a better CPU in time for the christmas sale. As for ICL-S it seems Intel is undecided what to do, same for CFL 8C. It looks to me they could bring CFL 8C before ICL-S but no final decision is made. There are so many Roadmap changes lately. It could depend on AMD or 10nm+ yields.
 

goldstone77

Senior member
Dec 12, 2017
217
92
61
Yes, if something is made up, it has to be guesswork.

So far, there is no sign of these 9000 series chips anywhere except the rumor mill.

There is no sign whatsoever of an 8 core desktop chip from Intel, for example.

I stand by my opinion that the wikichip 9000 series pages are pure guesswork based on leaks.

If the leaks turn out to be true, that won't change the fact that right now the pages about the chips are guesswork.

I'd be delighted to see an 8 core 9700K chip in 2018.

We haven't even seen any good signs of the rest of the 8000 series lineup...
We personally don't know where wiki chips is getting the information and/or how accurate it may be. We or I am doing the guesswork when believing the table could be represent future chips. As with anything that isn't officially announced we have to take it with a grain of sand.
 

imported_bman

Senior member
Jul 29, 2007
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If those 8-core parts are real and if they find their way into the 2018 iMacs it will be quite interesting. Combine that with the Titan Ridge Thunderbolt controller that comes with the Z390 platform and you now have a machine that kills the Mac Pro assuming you don't need ecc memory or a crazy number of cores. Could even be a decent gaming machine, albeit stuck with a 60Hz display, by using an eGPU.
 

imported_bman

Senior member
Jul 29, 2007
262
54
101
Which is exactly the point of Mac Pro?

Might as well build an actual gaming machine.
I don't know, moving from 4 to 8 cores puts the regular iMac in position where it is cannibalizing the lower end pro. Unless the thermal design of the Mac Pro is really good throttling could severely diminish the marginal utility of the 10+ core cpus over an 8 core. Ecc memory is probably only critical for a small sliver of people using the Mac Pros, maybe a bigger chunk of people will make use of the bandwidth provided by the quad channel memory. There a quite a few people that have workloads that sit somewhere between needing a lower end Mac Pro and the 4 core iMac, the introduction of a 8 core CPU in the regular iMac would change the purchasing calculus quite a bit.

An actual gaming machine will always better value than a Mac, but with an eGPU via the Titan Ridge controller a person who requires an iMac for work and that wants to game can avoid having to buy a separate gaming rig. Titan Ridge would also make it so you could use the 5k monitor while using an eGPU over Thunderbolt since it has DP1.4 with DSC.
 

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
7,436
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126
Yeah Intel's 10 should be great for every market except DIY/gaming once the yield issues are sorted out.
 

Dayman1225

Senior member
Aug 14, 2017
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521
106
Sounds about right for General Availability, I'd imagine it will be shipping to select vendors WAY EARLIER, like Skylake SP. Intel mentioned those were shipping in Nov the year before, so it'll be interesting to see when Intel commence sampling
 

Yotsugi

Golden Member
Oct 16, 2017
1,029
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it will be shipping to select vendors WAY EARLIER
Google and Amazon again, to make the chinese even more angry? They totally won't be able to ship everyone in 7+1 volumes.
Intel mentioned those were shipping in Nov the year before
That was Early Purley with some bits and pieces broken.
Besides, only Google and Amazon ever got it.
so it'll be interesting to see when Intel commence sampling
Early H1 2019?
Probs.
 

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