Intel Cannonlake, Ice Lake, Tiger Lake & Sapphire Rapid Thread

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Dayman1225

Senior member
Aug 14, 2017
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Anyone want to guess when Intel fully announces the Icelake/Comet Lake U lineup? Figure it would have to be soon. Sunday would be pretty petty.
No indication of it being Sunday so I highly doubt it will be. Probably sometime later this month since first Icelake laptops are scheduled to arrive in early August
 

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
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No indication of it being Sunday so I highly doubt it will be. Probably sometime later this month since first Icelake laptops are scheduled to arrive in early August
There was talk of the Dell being made available in July, but yes I do have doubts that will actually happen.
 

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
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The XPS chief has said August 2 for the Icelake XPS 13.
Ah interesting. The other angle I had was that Intel seems to like to formally announce around the time they start shipping product to OEMs. Obviously they would have to have shipped some Icelake already to meet that Aug 2nd date, but I was thinking more the date they start shipping Comet which I'm assuming won't be on store shelves until September.
 

mikk

Platinum Member
May 15, 2012
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I would have said an IFA launch in September makes sense. Or possibly it's initially really an exclusive Dell XPS launch with the global launch coming during or just before the IFA in September. Whiskey Lake-U officially launched 3 days before the IFA last year.
 

repoman27

Junior Member
Dec 17, 2018
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Intel considers Ice Lake Y and U as announced and shipping already. I imagine the sales embargo will lift some time within the next 4 weeks.

Here's what I have on my Intel calendar for the next few months:

ICL-Y 4+2, 9 W, LPDDR4X, 3x Thunderbolt 3, Sunny Cove Cores + Gen11 Graphics, 10+, ICP-LP, 10th Gen, Announced / Shipping to OEMs May 27, 2019
ICL-U 4+2, 15 W, LPDDR4X / DDR4, 4x Thunderbolt 3, Sunny Cove Cores + Gen11 Graphics, 10+, ICP-LP, 10th Gen, Announced / Shipping to OEMs May 27, 2019
AML-Y 2+2 SIPP, 5/7 W, LPDDR3 / DDR3L, Skylake Cores + Gen9.5 Graphics, 14+, SPT-LP, 8th Gen, Aug 2019
CML-Y 4+2, 9? W, LPDDR3 / DDR4, Skylake Cores + Gen9.5 Graphics, 14++, CMP-LP, 9th Gen, Aug 2019
CML-U 6+2, 25 W, LPDDR3 / DDR4, Skylake Cores + Gen9.5 Graphics, 14++, CMP-LP, 9th Gen, Aug 2019
CSL-X HCC (18C), 165 W, 4C DDR4, Skylake Cores, 14++, KBP-H?, 10th Gen, Sep 2019
CSL-W HCC (18C), 140 W, 4C DDR4, Skylake Cores, 14++, KBP-H, Sep 2019
CSL-W XCC (28C), 205 W, 6C DDR4, Skylake Cores, 14++, LWS, Announced Jun 3, 2019, Available Sep 2019
CML-S 10+2, 95 W, DDR4, Skylake Cores + Gen9.5 Graphics, 14++, CMP-H, 10th Gen, Retail Boxed Oct 2019?
CML-S 10+2, 65/95 W, DDR4, Skylake Cores + Gen9.5 Graphics, 14++, CMP-H / CMP-V, 10th Gen, Jan 2020
CML-E 10+2, 71/80/95 W, DDR4, Skylake Cores + Gen9.5 Graphics, 14++, CMP-H, Q1? 2020
CML-Y 4+2 SIPP, 9? W, LPDDR3? / DDR4, Skylake Cores + Gen9.5 Graphics, 14++, CMP-LP, 9th Gen, Apr 2020
CML-U 6+2 SIPP, 25 W, LPDDR4X / DDR4, Skylake Cores + Gen9.5 Graphics, 14++, CMP-LP, 9th Gen, Apr 2020
CML-H 10+2, 45 W, LPDDR3? / DDR4, Skylake Cores + Gen9.5 Graphics, 14++, CMP-H, 10th Gen, Apr 2020
CML-S 10+2 SIPP, 35/65/95 W, DDR4, Skylake Cores + Gen9.5 Graphics, 14++, CMP-H, 10th Gen, Apr 2020

And these are the shipping windows for various devices that have appeared in some of the more notable leaks:

Lenovo: ICL-U, X1 Yoga G4, Jun 26, 2019 (shipped with WHL-U)
Lenovo: ICL-U, X1 Carbon G7, Jun 26, 2019 (shipped with WHL-U)
Dell: ICL-U, XPS 13 2-in-1 7390 Centenario, 1st week of Aug 2019
Dell: CML-U, XPS 13 7390 Italia, 2nd week of Sep 2019
Dell: ICL-U, XPS 13 7300 Modena, 1st week of Feb 2020
Dell: CML-H, XPS 15 7500 Fiorano, 1st week of Apr 2020
Dell: CML-H, XPS 17 7700 Stradale, 1st weel of Jul 2020
Intel: CML-U, NUC9i7FNH, mid Aug 2019
Intel: CML-U, NUC9i5FNH/K, Sep 2019
Intel: CML-U, NUC9i3FNH/K, Sep 2019

There are a few question marks on my calendar:

TDP for Comet Lake-Y 4+2?

Amber Lake-Y was apparently supposed to appear in 4+2 form, but AFAICT that plan was aborted and we're left with KBL-Y 2+2 (same silicon, same PCH) but with higher clocks / TDP. The roadmaps show AML-Y SIPP parts scheduled for release Q3 2019, which I reckon will still happen, but I can't imagine they'll sprout any new cores at this point.

Intel seemed to have an X399 (CNP-H) PCH ready to go, and it seems crazy that they wouldn't pull that out for CSL-X, but it may have been spiked due to 14nm capacity issues.

The OEM roadmaps show CML-S as a Q1 2020 launch, but for the past couple years Intel has released a handful of desktop SKUs in Q4. So I wouldn't be surprised if we still see retail boxed 95W CML-S 10+2 parts in October.

Comet Lake will have a CMP-V 22nm "Value" PCH option. Does anyone know what the Comet Point PCH brings to the table otherwise?

Comet Lake Xeon E is listed as a Q1 2020 launch on the roadmaps, but it seems odd for those parts to launch before the CML-S/H SIPP parts. I would expect something more along the lines of a May launch, like CFL-E / Mehlow Refresh.

Any chance CML-Y or CML-H will get LPDDR4 support?

ICL-U isn't exactly a drop-in replacement for WHL-U, so did Lenovo do two designs for the X1 Yoga G4 and X1 Carbon G7, or did they give ICL-U a miss this time around? That might be rather telling about what sort of 10nm volume Intel can commit to at this juncture.
 

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
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The OEM roadmaps show CML-S as a Q1 2020 launch, but for the past couple years Intel has released a handful of desktop SKUs in Q4. So I wouldn't be surprised if we still see retail boxed 95W CML-S 10+2 parts in October.
Not happening, after Intel announced the 9900KS. Maybe they will be motivated now to do a 9600KS and 9700KS as well.
 

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
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Should add that Tiger Lake is coming sooner than you think, if only because the move to the chiplet model should help yields. Seems like it's going to be a mid cycle deal where the Comet Lake w/LPDDR4X will be released at the same time and then Rocket Lake U later in the year.
 

TheGiant

Senior member
Jun 12, 2017
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Should add that Tiger Lake is coming sooner than you think, if only because the move to the chiplet model should help yields. Seems like it's going to be a mid cycle deal where the Comet Lake w/LPDDR4X will be released at the same time and then Rocket Lake U later in the year.
tiger lake is same core as icelake chiplet mode or its improved icelake?
thanks
 

repoman27

Junior Member
Dec 17, 2018
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Not happening, after Intel announced the 9900KS. Maybe they will be motivated now to do a 9600KS and 9700KS as well.
9900KS is just a heavily binned CFL-SR 8+2 die. It's like the 8086K, which might have reached retail a few months earlier (June), but certainly didn't prevent Intel from releasing Coffee Lake Refresh in October. CML has new chipsets, so new boards. The 9900KS should work on Z370/Z390 boards with a firmware update.

Should add that Tiger Lake is coming sooner than you think, if only because the move to the chiplet model should help yields. Seems like it's going to be a mid cycle deal where the Comet Lake w/LPDDR4X will be released at the same time and then Rocket Lake U later in the year.
I think Tiger Lake-Y/U is coming in June or July 2020 at the earliest and will replace Ice Lake-Y/U on roughly an annual cadence, as Intel is so fond of doing. I guess as long as Intel can produce enough 10nm product, they can satisfy the customers that want LPDDR4 support for 9 and 15 W platforms with those SKUs. And CML-H at 10C has already jumped the shark so who cares about how much power the memory subsystem uses.

Rocket Lake-U is likely August 2020 and will essentially combine a 14nm CML-U 6+0 die with a 10nm GPU, presumably Xe. While it will serve various purposes for Intel, I'm not sure I'd call it a chiplet strategy, at least not in the traditional sense.
 

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
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9900KS is just a heavily binned CFL-SR 8+2 die. It's like the 8086K, which might have reached retail a few months earlier (June), but certainly didn't prevent Intel from releasing Coffee Lake Refresh in October.
True, but presumably there will be a gap between the 9900KS and Comet Lake. The gap doesn't need to be that long, but there will be a gap. And since they are saying December for the 9900KS, it's for sure not going to be until some time next year for Comet Lake.

Rocket Lake U btw apparently has 14 nm GPU and 10 nm GPU options.
 

repoman27

Junior Member
Dec 17, 2018
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True, but presumably there will be a gap between the 9900KS and Comet Lake. The gap doesn't need to be that long, but there will be a gap. And since they are saying December for the 9900KS, it's for sure not going to be until some time next year for Comet Lake.

Rocket Lake U btw apparently has 14 nm GPU and 10 nm GPU options.
9900KS is completely insignificant in terms of revenue. It's only purpose is as a halo / marketing tool, so Intel can release it whenever they feel it will provide the greatest advantage. The S platform, on the other hand, does make a difference to the bottom line, and Intel very much wants to show investors that they can reliably hit a 12-month upgrade cadence. CML-S will almost certainly launch for OEMs in Jan 2020, but Intel also needs to maintain the appearance of shipping "10th Gen" mainstream desktop parts at some point in 2019. 9900KS is irrelevant in that regard because it's 9th Gen. The production schedule for the CMP-H PCH is far more likely to determine the launch date of CML-S than anything to do with the 9900KS.

Rocket Lake-U with 14nm GPU doesn't appear on roadmaps until the start of the SIPP cycle in April 2021. Rocket Lake-H/S appear to be straight 14nm and might even be monolithic. And by that point, whatever AMD has on offer will probably be more interesting anyway, so Intel will have to resort to their usual shenanigans to create vendor lock-in somehow.
 

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
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9900KS is completely insignificant in terms of revenue. It's only purpose is as a halo / marketing tool, so Intel can release it whenever they feel it will provide the greatest advantage.
Right.. but the rumor is December. It obviously wouldn't make sense to release it if it's going to be succeeded that quickly. The shortages might be playing a role in this as well.

Edit: And it sounds like there isn't going to be a Rocket H, at least not right away. There will be higher wattage 6 core U parts (35-45W?) instead, and they are keeping the 8/10 core Comet H die on the market at the same time.
 
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repoman27

Junior Member
Dec 17, 2018
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Intel has been binning for a year to come up with a couple thousand CFL-SR 8+2 dies that will hit an all-core turbo of 5.0 GHz and can be sold at a rather high price to a handful of enthusiasts as the 9900KS. It will be succeeded by whatever Intel announces at Computex at the end of May 2020, but you can rest assured that Intel won't have a salable number of CML-S 10+2 dies that can hit 5.0 GHz on all cores for quite some time after that. CML-S as a platform represents 50 million chips that can be sold at much more reasonable prices and will go to the customers who purchase 95% of the CCG's output (i.e. the OEMs). It doesn't make sense to think that the 9900KS would influence the release schedule of CML-S in any way.

You may have noticed what AMD released today. Intel need those two additional cores stat. They will use the 9900KS in an attempt to keep blue bars at the top of the benchmark charts wherever they can for as long as possible, but it's not really a mainstream product that they can produce in volume. Clock speed is the last area where Intel still has a true lead, and they're squeezing it for all it's worth.
 
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Geekbench has new Comet Lake scores from the Dell XPS 13 7390. It's an 2.3 GHz base / 4.9 GHz boost 15 W CPU, the i7-10510U w/ single-core is 5248, multi-core is 17676.

Compare w/ Intel's fastest single-core mobile (28 W CFL-U = i7-8559U). 15 W CPUs boost to 28 W anyways so Comet Lake CPUs = Coffee Lake + longer boost + 300 MHz higher boost.

It seems like we'll just have toastier laptops in the cheap end... enough OEMs have had trouble cooling Whiskey Lake, so I doubt they'll run Comet Lake any faster.

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IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
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It seems like we'll just have toastier laptops in the cheap end... enough OEMs have had trouble cooling Whiskey Lake, so I doubt they'll run Comet Lake any faster.
The score is bad anyways. The Icelake version running at 3.5GHz performs identically.
 

mikk

Platinum Member
May 15, 2012
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Because of the much faster LPDDR4, the subscores are better for Comet Lake-U.
 

TheGiant

Senior member
Jun 12, 2017
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I think Intel just makes better clock/power management, but they cannot makes more miracles out of 14nm
but to their achievement, my surface pro 4 i5 6300U just hits 3GHz and no more, on 14nm....
what they did with 14nm is not finetuning, it is just like a full node achievement (except pure power)
anyone got their hands on that icelake? I am really interested in upgrading this surface pro and that icelake mobile looks like the best innovation in years
 

TheGiant

Senior member
Jun 12, 2017
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Don't remember seeing this here:

14nm+++! OMFG

Looks like 10nm+ is still not ready.
TDP becomes a tool to lie- AMD got to the game too but not to that much extent, yesterday google ping came to me with forbes article where 3900X has 105W......
TDP becomes the dieselgate of this computerage

they are doing what they can, not that 10C skylake core at 5GHz is bad, but the power

I remember reviews not long (2yrs) ago with eye watering comments about broadwell overclocked power of 200W
now it becomes a standard - 1800X, 2700X, 9900K, now that comet/whatever lake
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
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@ApTeM Where did you find that?

If its real, I see some intriguing details.

UHD 730 - Probably Gen "9.75" which is Gen 9 3D but with further media enhancements over Gen 9.5 that debuted with Kabylake.

7MB and 9MB L3 cache on the i3 models. Perhaps these are 6 core dies that are cut. But the numbers are just weird. Optimist in me hopes for even a slight uarch change? Cannonlake in 14nm?

Also, more lies from Intel regarding TDP. The Core i9 10800F with 65W TDP and ACT of 4.2GHz. Double that to 130W and maybe they have a chance of being right. :laughing:

At least they can't get away with this nonsense in the mobile space. That's why the Whiskey Lake parts throttle.
 
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