Intel Broadwell Thread

nenforcer · Jul 17, 2015

crashtech said:
The fastest unobtainable mainstream CPU ever produced.

Yeah it blows away the AMD A10-7870 in benchmarks - with the difference being you can actually buy an AMD A10-7870 APU in the US since the day it was announced while both the Core i7-5775C and i5-5675C are still MIA here in the US.
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LTC8K6 · Jul 17, 2015

Yes, but it looks like the 5775C is probably worth the wait, whereas the 7870K was just another Steamroller.

Sweepr · Jul 17, 2015

ShintaiDK said:
I can buy you the first 100 if you like. Just because its not on Newegg doesnt mean its not there.

It's also widely available in Japan.

crashtech · Jul 17, 2015

But in the market with the most potential customers, these CPUs are MIA. Not sure what to make of that, but it sure is a drag. I was expecting to be playing with one of these by now.

ShintaiDK · Jul 17, 2015

crashtech said:
But in the market with the most potential customers, these CPUs are MIA.

What market would that be? 🙂

When you can buy it in Asia and Europe. Then you already covered 1 and 2.

Sweepr · Jul 17, 2015

dark zero · Jul 17, 2015

The i7 is not that useful, but the i5 might get the independance against low tier NVIDIA.

Auric · Jul 17, 2015

Sweepr said:
Too bad he's using DDR3-1333 (in some tests) which definitely affects the results.

Welp, on GT2 sans eDRAM one casual benchmarck test I did betwixt 1600 and 1333 MHz (20%) resulted in scores varying 0.0-4.7% (3.3% avg) lower. So, prolly not much different in this case.

IntelUser2000 · Jul 18, 2015

ShintaiDK said:
What market would that be? 🙂

When you can buy it in Asia and Europe. Then you already covered 1 and 2.

The fact that its not available in lower class processors make no sense at all. Maximum it should be Core i5 4460 class. And then end up $240. We can probably go lower and match up with Core i3 4330 at $190. At the pricing they are at it should have had Geforce GTX 750 performance.

I can get R7 240 DDR3 on sale for $64 cdn, that's like $50 US. I can also overclock it too. Or get a Core i5 4460 + Geforce GTX 750Ti at the same price but Iris Pro 6200 pulverizing 3D performance.

Heck, no I can just buy a GTX 750Ti, and not bother spending $400+ on a CPU alone. First time I have felt where I did not need to upgrade... ever!

crashtech · Jul 18, 2015

ShintaiDK said:
What market would that be? 🙂

When you can buy it in Asia and Europe. Then you already covered 1 and 2.

I actually don't know which markets are largest but certainly Asia is going to be very big in tray CPUs. But there seems to be no good explanation to leave North America out in the cold when it is surely a large consumer of retail CPUs for sure.

ehume · Jul 18, 2015

Tock-1: i7 860 Lynnfield
Tock-2: i7 875K Lynnfield (No Tick for us low-lifes: Westmere was 6-core only; and expensive)
Tock: Sandy Bridge
Tick: Ivy Bridge
Tock-1: Haswell
Tock-2: Devil's Canyon (Broadwell was delayed. DC was interesting because it was married to Broadwell's Z87 chipset)
Tick: Broadwell (delayed; at least it was not skipped as Westmere was)
Tock-1: Skylake
Tock-2: Kaby Lake
Tick: (delayed? skipped?) Cannon Lake

The point is that we have seen this tick-tock reduplication before. One gets the impression that making CPU's cheaply enough to be affordable is hard work.

Now, I'm still waiting for AT to OC a retail Broadwell -- assuming such can be found.

frozentundra123456 · Jul 18, 2015

IntelUser2000 said:
The fact that its not available in lower class processors make no sense at all. Maximum it should be Core i5 4460 class. And then end up $240. We can probably go lower and match up with Core i3 4330 at $190. At the pricing they are at it should have had Geforce GTX 750 performance.

I can get R7 240 DDR3 on sale for $64 cdn, that's like $50 US. I can also overclock it too. Or get a Core i5 4460 + Geforce GTX 750Ti at the same price but Iris Pro 6200 pulverizing 3D performance.

Heck, no I can just buy a GTX 750Ti, and not bother spending $400+ on a CPU alone. First time I have felt where I did not need to upgrade... ever!

Strange to see people start proclaiming how poor a value proposition igps are for gaming now that Intel has a clearly superior product. The exact same reasoning also applies to AMD APUs, except less obvious because they are cheaper. But you dont get state of the art cpu performance with them either.

In any case, maybe intel is holding back so as to allow some competition to keep the regulators at bay (and to keep their margins up of course). With their current process advantage, they could release gt3e across the board, cut prices to AMD levels and still make a profit, and totally destroy what little is left of AMD's cpu business.

dark zero · Jul 18, 2015

Intel is with the US and Israel government, so they don't care about the regulators. If they want, NVIDIA will be bought

SickBeast · Jul 18, 2015

The broadwell launch was a real turkey for Intel. There is still no retail availability and the chip is a horrible overclocker, just horrible.

JM Popaleetus · Jul 18, 2015

Got sick of waiting for Broadwell-K (C). So I treated myself at Micro Center and NewEgg:

i7-5820k for $300
ASUS X99-PRO/USB 3.1 for $300
32GB G.SKILL DDR4 2400 CL15 for $200
Corsair AX1200i for $126

Plan on setting the notch to 4.0 to 4.5GHz and being plenty happy for the next 4-5 years.

dark zero · Jul 18, 2015

Broadwell is the Carrizo of Intel XD

Carrizo L on the other side... might flop Intel U trash and Atom based radioactive trash.

Sweepr · Jul 18, 2015

SickBeast said:
The broadwell launch was a real turkey for Intel. There is still no retail availability and the chip is a horrible overclocker, just horrible.

Broadwell-K is basically a socketed version of mobile Broadwell-H, few people were expecting great OCing results. Most reviewers managed at least 4.2GHz without fancy cooling which is not bad at all.

Sweepr · Jul 18, 2015

Some new Core i5 5675C tests with a dGPU. Just like the Hardware.fr review Broadwell outclasses Devil's Canyon in CPU limited games despite much lower clocks.

I think I saw Vishera somewhere. 🙂

IntelUser2000 · Jul 19, 2015

ehume said:
Tock-1: i7 860 Lynnfield
Tock-2: i7 875K Lynnfield (No Tick for us low-lifes: Westmere was 6-core only; and expensive)
Tock: Sandy Bridge
Tick: Ivy Bridge
Tock-1: Haswell
Tock-2: Devil's Canyon (Broadwell was delayed. DC was interesting because it was married to Broadwell's Z87 chipset)
Tick: Broadwell (delayed; at least it was not skipped as Westmere was)
Tock-1: Skylake
Tock-2: Kaby Lake
Tick: (delayed? skipped?) Cannon Lake

The point is that we have seen this tick-tock reduplication before. One gets the impression that making CPU's cheaply enough to be affordable is hard work.

Now, I'm still waiting for AT to OC a retail Broadwell -- assuming such can be found.

You are confusing "Refresh" with an architecture change. 875K is not an architectural change, just as Haswell Refresh is just that, a Refresh. Kaby Lake at least has an enhancement even if its minor.

Although I may be really arguing about semantics because Refresh versus 2-3% gain is really nothing. Although at least for GPU that may not be the case with the iGPU being Gen 10.

Broadwell-K is basically a socketed version of mobile Broadwell-H, few people were expecting great OCing results. Most reviewers managed at least 4.2GHz without fancy cooling which is not bad at all.

Oh come on. AMD is stuck in this situation because they bought ATI. For that they are doing pretty great aren't they?

Strange to see people start proclaiming how poor a value proposition igps are for gaming now that Intel has a clearly superior product. The exact same reasoning also applies to AMD APUs, except less obvious because they are cheaper.

Neither makes sense, at least AMD is more balanced. Still the best is elsewhere. You are going to tell me that sticking an iGPU on the two most expensive chips are because they care for you? Or something?

DrMrLordX · Jul 19, 2015

Sweepr said:
Some new Core i5 5675C tests with a dGPU. Just like the Hardware.fr review Broadwell outclasses Devil's Canyon in CPU limited games despite much lower clocks.

It's going to be hard for Skylake to overtake that lead.

dark zero · Jul 19, 2015

DrMrLordX said:
It's going to be hard for Skylake to overtake that lead.

The only way to Intel to fully lead in everything is to use only eDRAM on ALL their chips... even 32MB on a Celeron could make a BIG difference.

AMD is dead now. And nVIDIA is on Check. The mere fact to use the Broadwell i5 makes you totally independant to use the dGPU from them (up to GTX 760)... even on DX 12.

ehume · Jul 19, 2015

IntelUser2000 said:
You are confusing "Refresh" with an architecture change. 875K is not an architectural change, just as Haswell Refresh is just that, a Refresh. Kaby Lake at least has an enhancement even if its minor.
. . .

Actually, I was not citing those for examples of architectural changes, but new product lines that were used to extend the tocks. Notice that when I described the 875k, I said "No ticks for us low-lifes."

But just as Kaby Lake has an enhancement, the 875K had a movable multiplier -- something that the original Lynnfield did not have. I still have an i7 860 and an i7 875k. Overclocking them is very different, one from the other.

And Devil's Canyon was packaged in an improved TIM and can run on a Z97 chipset. That chipset was originally planned for Broadwell. That very much makes it a new product, if you consider that CPU + chipset is the product.

So we have extensions to tocks at 45nm, 22nm and 14nm. <shrug> Something we should get used to, I think.

nenforcer · Jul 20, 2015

IntelUser2000 said:
The fact that its not available in lower class processors make no sense at all. Maximum it should be Core i5 4460 class. And then end up $240. We can probably go lower and match up with Core i3 4330 at $190. At the pricing they are at it should have had Geforce GTX 750 performance.

I can get R7 240 DDR3 on sale for $64 cdn, that's like $50 US. I can also overclock it too. Or get a Core i5 4460 + Geforce GTX 750Ti at the same price but Iris Pro 6200 pulverizing 3D performance.

Heck, no I can just buy a GTX 750Ti, and not bother spending $400+ on a CPU alone. First time I have felt where I did not need to upgrade... ever!

I agree with this - Broadwell is clearly a niche product for those who want an iGP with respectable performance - but are not dedicated gamers.

i5 4460 + Geforce GTX 750Ti is clearly a better gaming build at a better price as well. I like the Broadwell chip for my parents computers - low power usage but still respectable graphics. I'm not convinced its going to be worth $366 and $276 for the i7 5775C and i5 5665C, however.

DrMrLordX · Jul 20, 2015

nenforcer said:
I agree with this - Broadwell is clearly a niche product for those who want an iGP with respectable performance - but are not dedicated gamers.

You can't deny the benefits of the eDRAM on Broadwell-C when it comes to gaming with a dGPU. Just look at the framerates posted above by Sweepr. The cheaper i5-5675C is neck-and-neck with the more-expensive i7-4790k when using a dGPU. The 5675C presumably has some headroom (up to at least 4.2 GHz) while the 4790k has much less headroom. Most 4790ks don't want to go over 4.6 GHz with air cooling or AiOs.

The i5-5675C is probably the gamer chip to get from now on, unless the i7-6700k shows up big in independent gaming benchmarks this August.

mikk · Jul 20, 2015

DrMrLordX said:
You can't deny the benefits of the eDRAM on Broadwell-C when it comes to gaming with a dGPU.

Why can't he deny that? Broadwell IPC without edram in games is still unknown. There is surely an effect but how big it is we cannot say for sure.

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