Nvidia is demoing 4k60p on Tegra X1 at CES :
source: http://www.tomsguide.com/us/nvidia-tegra-x1-features,news-20096.html
Fluent 4k60 HEVC playback is nice. Does anyone know if the HEVC decoding support from Broadwell is a hybrid solution like Haswell or any different? MPC Home Cinema supports HEVC decoding for Haswell via DXVA2. It works quite good on my i5-4670. HSW GT2 should be easily fast enough for HEVC Up to 4k30 or 1080p60. Very low CPU utilization and GPU is running at medium load.
4k60 on the other side seems a bit too much for a HSW GT2, CPU utilization is pretty low around 20% but there is some stuttering, I guess this is caused by a too high GPU load.
frozentundra123456
Lifer
- Aug 11, 2008
- 10,451
- 642
- 126
Does anyone wonder how internet bandwidth is going to support 4K streaming? My internet slows to a crawl pretty much every evening as it is when traffic gets heavy.
ShintaiDK
Lifer
- Apr 22, 2012
- 20,378
- 145
- 106
This may help tho:
http://arstechnica.com/business/201...st-be-25mbps-and-isps-are-failing-to-deliver/
I got 100/20 here(115/30 effective), and I have no problems around the clock.
frozentundra123456
Lifer
- Aug 11, 2008
- 10,451
- 642
- 126
Interesting. I am still waiting for gigabit Google Fiber. LOL
A few cities in the US do have it though, either free or at a very reasonable price.
ShintaiDK
Lifer
- Apr 22, 2012
- 20,378
- 145
- 106
I wouldnt want google fiber tho, even if it was free.
20-25mbit should be enough for most 4K streaming. But considering the internet, how POPs work and such. I wouldnt expect any perfect experience unless you had 100mbit and 100mbit was a widely used product. And specially the last part is a key issue that will take many years. 2016 may be the first 4K TV broadcast it seems. But I cant really imagine 4K picking up broadly before 2020.
Last edited:
Essence_of_War
Platinum Member
- Feb 21, 2013
- 2,650
- 4
- 81
I wouldn't want it if it was free either, but that's mostly because free = you are the product
ShintaiDK
Lifer
- Apr 22, 2012
- 20,378
- 145
- 106
I wouldn't want it if it was free either, but that's mostly because free = you are the product
Exactly.
Eug
Lifer
- Mar 11, 2000
- 23,586
- 1,000
- 126
4k Netflix is H.265 in the 10-16 Mbps range. Not a low bitrate by any means, but not particularly high either.
My internet provider usually has no problem with this, even during peak periods. If there are any problems, it's mainly on the serving side, and I only have 25 Mbps service.
If your internet service is slowing to a crawl every evening during peak times, you probably should get a new ISP. I watch HD 1080p all the time on Netflix in peak times, and sometimes with two separate streams if my wife and/or daughter are watching at the same time. Each stream is up to 6 Mbps, so we're already talking somewhere in the range of 9-12 Mbps.
In canada here with the lack of telecommunications competition the only provider in my area is bell with a 5/1 package for an absurd amount of money (package comes with 20 GB/month which simply is not enough so I need the $30 unlimited upgrade). I don't care about 4K anything. I need better internet.
Eug
Lifer
- Mar 11, 2000
- 23,586
- 1,000
- 126
Where do you live?
I'm in Canada, but in a big city (Toronto). In my area, it's 25 Mbps up / 10 Mbps down with 300 GB usage for $39.99 on VDSL2 on TekSavvy, which uses's Bell's network. 15/1 is $32.99.
I'm on an old 25/7 line though, paying $32.99 for 300 GB usage per month.
So, while I can empathize with you about your bad internet options, that doesn't change the fact that mid bit-rate video streaming is very important to a lot of Canadians, and HEVC H.265 usage will increase, esp. since most Canadians already have access to ISPs that can provide those bitrates reliably for reasonable cost.
Even if Broadwell U can play back HD HEVC smoothly with moderate CPU usage, I think it's worth the wait for Skylake for proper HEVC hardware decoding, particularly if you plan on keeping the laptop for a long time like I do. People with laptops without hardware H.264 AVC decoders understand. With fast Core 2 Duo CPUs, 1080p H.264 can be decoded smoothly, but it just isn't ideal because of the power requirements and reduction of battery life, the impact on multitasking, and the effect on fan speed.
EDIT:
The other thing I should mention is that HEVC H.265 isn't just about 4k either. It should make lower bitrate video streaming even lower. So if you only have 5 Mbps internet access, you'll get higher quality video at 4 Mbps for example than you did before if your site and hardware support HEVC. 4 Mbps HEVC would easily support 1080p. However, the experience might not be very good if your machine doesn't have hardware H.264 decoding.
Last edited:
Atreidin
Senior member
- Mar 31, 2011
- 464
- 27
- 86
I'm not defending google here, but in this case, it isn't free. And even if I didn't want google fiber I'd still want them in my area to make competitors actually be competitive.
Arachnotronic
Lifer
- Mar 10, 2006
- 11,715
- 2,012
- 126
Eug
Lifer
- Mar 11, 2000
- 23,586
- 1,000
- 126
To continue on with this thought from my previous post...
I think the analogy here is the switchover to H.264 for video streaming. In the past, sites were using various formats that were relatively easy to decode and 480p video streaming was reasonably easy to do. Then sites like YouTube started switching over to H.264, which made decoding these video streams much harder. All of a sudden, hardware which was perfectly fine for 480p was no longer fine for 480p. It could still decode that video, but under a lot of strain. An extreme example here is my old G4 Macs which had no problem with YouTube streaming for SD content, but now is utterly useless for anything over 240p. A more reasonable example is my 2008 2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo Mac which is relatively OK with 720p H.264, but struggles a lot more with 1080p H.264 video. It can still play 1080p cleanly, but I don't dare touch anything on the computer, because it will cause the video to drop frames.
So why not just play back lower bitrate video then? Because that video is not always available.
Back in the day, people used to spend a lot of time re-encoding video from 1080p H.264 to say 720p or 640p or else to other formats so that it would play on their hardware. I did something different. As technology improved, I chose to forego that, and instead just made sure to buy hardware that included a decent hardware H.264 decoder. These days, even my old iPhones and most of my laptops don't break a sweat with 1080p H.264, because they have hardware decoders.
I think the analogy here is the switchover to H.264 for video streaming. In the past, sites were using various formats that were relatively easy to decode and 480p video streaming was reasonably easy to do. Then sites like YouTube started switching over to H.264, which made decoding these video streams much harder. All of a sudden, hardware which was perfectly fine for 480p was no longer fine for 480p. It could still decode that video, but under a lot of strain. An extreme example here is my old G4 Macs which had no problem with YouTube streaming for SD content, but now is utterly useless for anything over 240p. A more reasonable example is my 2008 2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo Mac which is relatively OK with 720p H.264, but struggles a lot more with 1080p H.264 video. It can still play 1080p cleanly, but I don't dare touch anything on the computer, because it will cause the video to drop frames.
So why not just play back lower bitrate video then? Because that video is not always available.
Back in the day, people used to spend a lot of time re-encoding video from 1080p H.264 to say 720p or 640p or else to other formats so that it would play on their hardware. I did something different. As technology improved, I chose to forego that, and instead just made sure to buy hardware that included a decent hardware H.264 decoder. These days, even my old iPhones and most of my laptops don't break a sweat with 1080p H.264, because they have hardware decoders.
ShintaiDK
Lifer
- Apr 22, 2012
- 20,378
- 145
- 106
Unfortunately it shows a problem. You have a very low cap. Even if you only used your internet connection for 4K streaming and nothing else. You would get something like 2 hours per day.
The reason why you may not feel the inverted pyramid transport structure of your ISP is perhaps due to that exact cap.
It depends on 3 factors. Enduser speed, data cap and user distribution.
Even something liek googles gbit fiber is severely limited in reality. For every 10000 users you have somewhere between 10 and 40Gbit to share.
Last edited:
Eug
Lifer
- Mar 11, 2000
- 23,586
- 1,000
- 126
Yeah, as I mentioned earlier, Netflix streams 4K HEVC at 10-16 Mbps. I have a 300 GB cap.
At 16 Mbps, that works out to 7.2 GB per hour. With a usage cap of 300 GB, that's about 42 hours. At 10 Mbps, that works out to 4.5 GB per hour. With a usage cap of 300 GB, that's about 67 hours. To take a conservative average, that 300 GB is about 50 hours of Netflix's 4k HEVC or so, or just under 2 hours a day.
However, that's only 4k.
Right now I watch 1080p HD H.264 Netflix at up to 6 Mbps (although it's often less). That works out to 2.7 GB per hour. That's about 111 hours in a month, or four hours a day. However, I don't come anywhere near that, ever.
Now, if that 1080p HD became H.265 instead, my usage would actually decrease. As mentioned, HEVC isn't just about 4k.
tl;dr
HEVC H.265 isn't just about 4k. If adopted widely, HEVC H.265 would make video streaming even MORE palatable, since it decreases 1080p bitrates as compared to H.264.
---
And HEVC H.265 WILL be adopted widely eventually. Heck, my iPad already uses it for FaceTime.
Last edited:
some benchmarks on XPS 13
http://hothardware.com/news/intel-5th-gen-core-series-performance-preview-with-dells-gorgeous-xps-13
this is so boring
http://hothardware.com/news/intel-5th-gen-core-series-performance-preview-with-dells-gorgeous-xps-13
this is so boring
This kind of GPU gain is downright pathetic with a node shrink.
The gains that qualcomm, apple, nvidia, and AMD are putting out will leave this GPU in the dust. 20% after 1.5 years is not going to cut it. At this point I'm hoping for some sort of magic driver update.
Where's the benchmark of running Far Cry 2 DX10 on qualcomm or apple? Really?
Oh and I thought that the other thread about overheating snapdragons would have taught people not to extrapolate data to infinity but I guess not.
How much does A8X improve over A7? How much does the GPU portion of S810 improve over S800?
Its a 20% gain. Its far from the gains Apple, Qualcomm, Nvidia, etc. have been pulling out on the GPU front. Saddest thing is that it has a 22-> 14 nm node shrink and a new architecture and can't do more than 20%?
ShintaiDK
Lifer
- Apr 22, 2012
- 20,378
- 145
- 106
I wouldnt draw too much conclusion yet. HD4400 on that chart for example goes from 21 to 31FPS. HD4000 goes from 20 to 25.
the best thing would be if we had a desktop version to test with to avoid any limitations or predefined settings from OEMs.
the best thing would be if we had a desktop version to test with to avoid any limitations or predefined settings from OEMs.
Last edited:
Exactly this. No system and driver infos, no comparisons with other Broadwell notebooks, only one game tested etc. Impossible to draw a final conclusion. To me it looks like Broadwell-U HD5500 suffers from low clock speeds, means most of the IPC improvements are lost. It's either a energy consumption or temperature issue, or a combination of both. There are simply not enough tests available. A poor launch. In the last years Anand did some early tests, but he is gone.
frozentundra123456
Lifer
- Aug 11, 2008
- 10,451
- 642
- 126
Well unfortunately a "poor launch" would seem to indicate to me a product that is not quite living up to expectations. It is already late, and I dont know how long we can keep making excuses for the performance based on the platform. The chip is part of the platform, and its performance has to be evaluated in that context.
That said, I think too much criticism is being made about the performance of the low TDP parts, but I was hoping for more from the 15 watt ones. I mean that was supposed to be the point of Broadwell, much better performance per watt allowing all these super thin and light devices without sacrificing performance and giving better battery life.
That Dell XPS 13 sure looks sweet though, and the performance is probably "good enough" if the battery life is outstanding as it is claimed to be.
That said, I think too much criticism is being made about the performance of the low TDP parts, but I was hoping for more from the 15 watt ones. I mean that was supposed to be the point of Broadwell, much better performance per watt allowing all these super thin and light devices without sacrificing performance and giving better battery life.
That Dell XPS 13 sure looks sweet though, and the performance is probably "good enough" if the battery life is outstanding as it is claimed to be.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 10K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 7K
-
-
Facebook
Twitter