Intel Broadwell Thread

[frozentundra123456]

Personally, I grew up on windows, and still don't like android in anything larger than a phone. So I would love to see x86 take a larger share of the mobile market. Unfortunalely Intel was so late to the game in this market that android has become firmly entrenched, and the vast majority of the market is happy with that. I could see Intel making headroads with atom running android, but I am afraid the core devices are always going to be an expensive niche market, and gains from that market will mostly come at the expense of desktops and conventional laptops, rather than taking market share from android.

 

[Sweepr]

I'd really like something like a premium 2-in-1 with a high resolution 12'' screen, Core M, a proper keyboard and solid build quality. I see Core M as a way of bringing the performance of the Core line to new form factors. It might also find its way to some premium Android tablets, let's see how that plays out.

 

[Arachnotronic]

I'd really like something like a premium 2-in-1 with a high resolution, 12'' screen, Core M, a proper keyboard and solid build quality. I see Core M as a way of bringing the performance of the Core line to new form factors. It might also find its way to some premium Android tablets, let's see how that plays out.

I want a Core M MacBook Air.

 

[Fjodor2001]

I hope we'll see a lot of Broadwell-M based pure Ultrabooks, and not only these 2-in-1 devices. 2-in-1 seems like a desperate attempt for Intel to enter the tablet space, by hooking them onto laptops where Intel already is established.

 

[Phynaz]

Convertibles aren't very good. I could get behing the dockable systems though.

 

[mikk]

anybody know where we can get this presentation?

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/CPU-H...-Y-Veroeffentlichung-1135058/galerie/2254434/


There are all slides.

 

[Khato]

Personally, I grew up on windows, and still don't like android in anything larger than a phone. So I would love to see x86 take a larger share of the mobile market. Unfortunalely Intel was so late to the game in this market that android has become firmly entrenched, and the vast majority of the market is happy with that. I could see Intel making headroads with atom running android, but I am afraid the core devices are always going to be an expensive niche market, and gains from that market will mostly come at the expense of desktops and conventional laptops, rather than taking market share from android.

Agreed, the majority of Core-M devices are going to be taking the place of a 'normal' windows laptop/desktop because they actually can. The question there is whether the availability of such is going to put another nail in the 'premium' Android/Apple tablet market or not - why spend $400+ on a tablet that can't do anything more than the ~$200 ones when you can buy a $600 Core-M 'tablet' that can replace your laptop/desktop for most purposes?

I'm not certain what the answer to that is going to be. But it does seem to be a reasonable strategy on Intel's part to break into the tablet market. Because I don't see how the combination of Baytrail and Merrifield offering premium performance for value cost and Core-M in the high end doesn't marginalize the Android/Apple premium tablets... and that class of 'premium' tablets is the only segment where Intel doesn't have the among the best options available.

 

[Fjodor2001]

when you can buy a $600 Core-M 'tablet' that can replace your laptop/desktop for most purposes?

Except that you can't unfortunately, because it lacks a proper keyboard, mouse and large display compared to a desktop PC.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Agreed, the majority of Core-M devices are going to be taking the place of a 'normal' windows laptop/desktop because they actually can. The question there is whether the availability of such is going to put another nail in the 'premium' Android/Apple tablet market or not - why spend $400+ on a tablet that can't do anything more than the ~$200 ones when you can buy a $600 Core-M 'tablet' that can replace your laptop/desktop for most purposes?

I'm not certain what the answer to that is going to be. But it does seem to be a reasonable strategy on Intel's part to break into the tablet market. Because I don't see how the combination of Baytrail and Merrifield offering premium performance for value cost and Core-M in the high end doesn't marginalize the Android/Apple premium tablets... and that class of 'premium' tablets is the only segment where Intel doesn't have the among the best options available.

The main problem I see for intel is they have almost zero presence in the phone market, and dont even have a production chip with an integrated modem in shipping devices. And as phones get larger and more powerful, I could actually see the tablet market declining, or at least growing much more slowly. So they were late to both phones and tablets, are making some headway into tablets, which may be already past the most rapid growth phase, and still dont have a really competitive phone chip. So it basically comes down to the only reason to go Intel is x86. There is a market for that, but I fear it will not penetrate the mass consumer market, especially since both iOS and android are firmly entrenched.

 

[Khato]

Except that you can't unfortunately, because it lacks a proper keyboard, mouse and large display compared to a desktop PC.

While I do understand your point it's merely a technicality in the same fashion of a desktop PC doesn't necessarily come with a keyboard, mouse, and a large display either. Only difference is that a desktop PC is almost useless without them while a tablet functions just fine. The point of such being that there is no reason whatsoever why you can't set that Core-M tablet down on a 'docking station' which drives a display via wireless display, keyboard and mouse via bluetooth, and charges either wired or wireless. (Could even provide airflow to allow for sustained maximum turbo.)

The main problem I see for intel is they have almost zero presence in the phone market, and dont even have a production chip with an integrated modem in shipping devices. And as phones get larger and more powerful, I could actually see the tablet market declining, or at least growing much more slowly. So they were late to both phones and tablets, are making some headway into tablets, which may be already past the most rapid growth phase, and still dont have a really competitive phone chip. So it basically comes down to the only reason to go Intel is x86. There is a market for that, but I fear it will not penetrate the mass consumer market, especially since both iOS and android are firmly entrenched.

Given that I see little point in anything beyond my Moto G for a smartphone I won't claim to have the best idea of where precisely the smartphone market is going. It certainly could continue down the path of increasing size and power and become the primary personal computing device. Or it could become almost exclusively a connectivity device that pairs to your other devices. That future depends in part upon how much more power scaling we get out of process improvements and/or energy storage methods. So yeah, pure speculation as to how that will play out.

Regardless, I wouldn't agree that the only reason to go Intel is x86. While I know that the market share doesn't reflect such, I don't know what reason there is to buy a non-Intel tablet currently, unless you want the junk available below the ~$100 price point. Sure for smartphones they're still out of the game, and if you for some reason want a $300-$400 Android tablet you can get better performance from a Tegra K1. But other than that?

 

[Arachnotronic]

Regardless, I wouldn't agree that the only reason to go Intel is x86. While I know that the market share doesn't reflect such, I don't know what reason there is to buy a non-Intel tablet currently, unless you want the junk available below the ~$100 price point. Sure for smartphones they're still out of the game, and if you for some reason want a $300-$400 Android tablet you can get better performance from a Tegra K1. But other than that?

I own a couple of Intel based tablets (ASUS MeMO Pad 7 and Dell Venue 8) and while they were a pretty decent value for what I paid for them ($149 and $199, respectively), neither comes close to the experience that my iPad Mini with Retina Display ($399, admittedly) was able to deliver.

I also can't run Dead Trigger 2 on either tablet without experiencing either barely-playable performance (MeMO Pad 7) or severe rendering artifacts (Venue 8).

Windows based Intel tablets are smooth, but the app ecosystem is very limited. The only game that I like on my Dell Venue 8 Pro is Stupid Zombies 2. Haven't powered that thing on in months.

 

[Sweepr]

I also can't run Dead Trigger 2 on either tablet without experiencing either barely-playable performance (MeMO Pad 7) or severe rendering artifacts (Venue 8).

Strange, BT-T should be able to run this game just fine. My old non-Retina iPad mini ran it pretty well with the remarkably inferior A5 though my current iPad mini Retina delivers a better experience. Admittedly, after comparing some popular mobile titles @ Android (S801 phone) and iOS (A7) I did notice most games are better optimized for Apple stuff, despite theorically similar/better graphics performance from the Android camp.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Strange, BT-T should be able to run this game just fine. My old non-Retina iPad mini ran it pretty well with the remarkably inferior A5 though my current iPad mini Retina delivers a better experience. Admittedly, after comparing some popular mobile titles @ Android (S801 phone) and iOS (A7) I did notice most games are better optimized for Apple stuff, despite theorically similar/better graphics performance from the Android camp.

Dead Trigger is based on the Unity Engine, so it has to use binary translation, AFAIK.

 

[TreVader]

I don't know what reason there is to buy a non-Intel tablet currently, unless you want the junk available below the ~$100 price point.

Really?


This is because you bought a T100 and it's the only thing you've ever loved that truly, truly loved you back?


O, intel you are
my everything, my
core, and bay Trail T

 

[Khato]

Really?


This is because you bought a T100 and it's the only thing you've ever loved that truly, truly loved you back?

Uhhh, no. The last tablet I bought was an HP Touchpad during their fire sale for the fun of it which at least had some limited use once I switched it to Android. Since then I've merely played with what tablets my friends have purchased as well as seen what they use them for.

I own a couple of Intel based tablets (ASUS MeMO Pad 7 and Dell Venue 8) and while they were a pretty decent value for what I paid for them ($149 and $199, respectively), neither comes close to the experience that my iPad Mini with Retina Display ($399, admittedly) was able to deliver.

Out of curiosity, which Dell Venue 8? I'd assume the more recent one? In which case I'd be quite disappointed that hardware which should be on par with that iPad Mini is being brought low by the software mess of Android.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Out of curiosity, which Dell Venue 8? I'd assume the more recent one? In which case I'd be quite disappointed that hardware which should be on par with that iPad Mini is being brought low by the software mess of Android.

Merrifield version with 1920x1080 display.

 

[Roland00Address]

Merrifield version with 1920x1080 display.

Let me start by saying I hope you like your tablet.

Oh this pisses me off I did not know they had a more uptoday "high end Android Model" while stilling selling their dual core baytrail atoms. It pisses me off they have a 1920x1200 screen with baytrail but it is the dual core baytrail and it only has 1 GB of ram. So close but so far. And this is in the $200+ market

 

[Arachnotronic]

Let me start by saying I hope you like your tablet.

Oh this pisses me off I did not know they had a more uptoday "high end Android Model" while stilling selling their dual core baytrail atoms. It pisses me off they have a 1920x1200 screen with baytrail but it is the dual core baytrail and it only has 1 GB of ram. So close but so far. And this is in the $200+ market

If it weren't for the Unity engine compatibility problems it'd be fine for what I want to do with it, but sadly, they are there.

 

[witeken]

Unity will support x86:

http://anandtech.com/show/8409/unity-adds-native-x86-support-for-android

 

[Arachnotronic]

Unity will support x86:

http://anandtech.com/show/8409/unity-adds-native-x86-support-for-android

I saw that and think this removes one of the large barriers to broader x86 adoption on Android (since Unity is so popular).

Seeing Intel trying to push an alternative architecture into a very high-volume, consumer-oriented space is pretty exciting. Not too many times in history has such a direct push succeeded, but there's actually a legitimate shot that x86 can be an important architecture on Android over time.

EDIT: That being said, this doesn't help users today

 

[meloz]

...

 

[Homeles]

Only twice as big. Kepler is 16X as big as one A15.

Pay no attention to Nvidia's Tegra die shots. They are complete fabrications.

 

[witeken]

Interesting, source?

 

[Arachnotronic]

They are complete fabrications.

All chips are fabricated.

Har, har...

 

[Khato]

Interesting, source?

That NVIDIA 'die shots' are just pretty fictitious drawings which don't necessarily bear any resemblance to actual silicon? I'd cite a source of NVIDIA's comparison between their dual and quad core K1 versions - http://images.anandtech.com/doci/7622/Screen Shot 2014-01-06 at 6.16.46 AM.png - along with common sense. Namely, take a close look at the CPU cores and compare them between A15 and Denver... notice how the Denver cores are using the exact same texture, just stretched to take up ~2x the horizontal space? There's also the amusing notion that the companion core A15 uses 1/4 the area of a normal one.