Intel admits "Speed Alone isn't Enough"

[microAmp]

Intel Rethinks Chip Performance: Speed Alone Isn't Enough

In short they are talking about their Centrino.

PALO ALTO, Calif. -- For years, Intel Corp. (NasdaqNM:INTC - News) has had a simple message: Faster chips equal better computer performance.
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Now the message from the world's largest processor maker is changing, at least when it comes to notebook computing. Chip speed, as measured by megahertz or gigahertz, is only one factor when comparing laptop performance.

Intel executives offered this new outlook Wednesday at a forum for computer developers in San Jose. To illustrate the point, Vice President Anand Chandrasekher ran a demonstration that showed the company's new 1.6 GHz Centrino chip outperformed its 2.4 GHz Pentium 4 mobile chip when handling video and Adobe System Inc.'s (ADBE) Photoshop software.

In designing Centrino for notebooks and to increase battery life, "we really had to do things differently," he said.

To many observers, the demonstration was evidence that Intel's focus on raw power was changing. "In the past, it's been speed, speed, speed," says Richard Doherty, director of Envisioneering Group, a market research firm.

Instead, the demonstration legitimizes what competitors Advanced Micro Devices Inc. (NYSE:AMD - News) and Apple Computer Inc. (NasdaqNM:AAPL - News) have been saying: that megahertz or gigahertz doesn't matter as much as overall system performance, says Tim Bajarin, president of consulting firm Creative Strategies Inc., "especially when it comes to mobile computing."

Competitors were quick to try to capitalize.

"This a great example of Intel following AMD's lead," said John Crank, senior brand manager at Advanced Micro Devices Inc. "Intel is completely taking a page from AMD's book."

AMD has argued since October 2001 that it unfair to compare its slower Athlon with Intel's faster Pentium solely based on speed. "The idea here is to find the optimal balance" between how fast a chip's internal clock ticks -- its raw speed -- and how much work it can process during each stroke, Mr. Crank said.

But the analysis of the new Centrino is more complex. The chip may still have competitors running to catch up.

Design changes Intel brought to Centrino help move data more quickly in and out of a chip's core, and they shut off unneeded circuits to save battery power. Centrino also comes with companion chips to provide wireless network connections.

The company "may be ahead of the curve for a while," says Mr. Doherty.

It also may have to wrestle with questions about the new way it compares computer performance. "I don't believe that (it) is a new position from Intel," argues Mr. Chandrasekher. The company has long stressed system performance with its chips for servers, or big network computers, he said.

When pitting one Pentium against another, "the right way to compare performance is clock speed," he says. However, when comparing chips from two different families -- Centrino and Pentium, for instance -- the right way is to run a software application and see how they do, he admitted.

 

[mee987]

now lets see if they decide to use some kind of PR rating. either that or they will have to do some informative advertising. consumers are stupid.

 

[Baronz]

Originally posted by: mee987
now lets see if they decide to use some kind of PR rating. either that or they will have to do some informative advertising. consumers are stupid.

I doubt it, that would make everything extremely confusing for people who don't know what they're looking at.

You'd have the Xp2400+ at 2ghz or the "PM 2400+" at 1.6 ghz. Maybe AMD will beat intel at their own game

 

[dullard]

So what is new?

1) The Pentium was released at 66 MHz when the 486 was running at 100 MHz. Intel said frequency isn't everything.
2) The Celeron has the same frequency as a P3 or P4 yet the Celeron runs much slower. Intel never said frequency is everything.
3) The Itanium was released at 1 GHz when P4 chips were well above that frequency. Intel said frequency isn't everything.
4) Need I go on?

Now Centrino comes along - Intel will again say frequency isn't everything. Duh, that is what Intel has said all along. It is just fanboys who claim Intel says it when they cannot give any links.

 

[mee987]

links? show me links where intel said frequency isnt everthing on those 3 occasions you listed.

and on the celeron -- i think most of the general public doesnt know how much crappier these are than the p4's. thats what got the whole thing started about intel selling mhz instead of speed.

 

[Ilmater]

Originally posted by: dullard
So what is new?

1) The Pentium was released at 66 MHz when the 486 was running at 100 MHz. Intel said frequency isn't everything.
2) The Celeron has the same frequency as a P3 or P4 yet the Celeron runs much slower. Intel never said frequency is everything.
3) The Itanium was released at 1 GHz when P4 chips were well above that frequency. Intel said frequency isn't everything.
4) Need I go on?

Now Centrino comes along - Intel will again say frequency isn't everything. Duh, that is what Intel has said all along. It is just fanboys who claim Intel says it when they cannot give any links.

Good point. I think the problem for AMD has been that Intel is basically a household name. They try to use PR numbers to counteract this, but that isn't their real problem. Anyone puting a system together themselves knows how AMD performs compared to Intel. Any company that builds computers knows how they perform versus Intel. However, the average consumer will probably NEVER know how AMD CPUs compare to Intel CPUs. They will never spend the time reading benchmarks and such to know how they perform. So, the only way AMD can gain market share goes back to the main vendors and advertisement. All those ridiculous Intel commercials solidify their place in the moron's mind (read: most consumers). When somebody like my mom (or anyone else in my family fo rthat matter) would go to buy a computer, if it weren't for me, they would get an Intel computer unless there was a significant difference in price AND a good salesman that could convince them of the quality of AMD. Otherwise, they just assume that, if they want the best, they should go with Intel. So, they'll look for that ridiculous Intel Inside logo and won't buy anything without it. When Dell computers ship with AMD processors, THEN you'll see AMD becoming a REAL competitor to Intel. Consumers will say, "Hey, Dell is really big. Intel must not be the only CPU manufacturer out there."

What really confuses me about the swarm of interest around this subject is its obviousness (is that a word?). Did you people not know that this was the case? Did it somehow become true because Intel said so? No. As dullard pointed out, this has always been the case. And I have to agree with dullard about the fanboy mentality as well. It's as if you're claiming some kind of victory over Intel. Who are you kidding? Intel is laughing right now because it can say whatever it wants and its sales won't fluctuate any more or less because of it. The only market share AMD can gain right now are all the people who post in forums like these but still buy Intel. Dell isn't going to start shipping PCs with AMD CPUs in them because of this "admission" by Intel, so AMD doesn't benefit AT ALL from this statement, and neither does anyone else.

The most puzzling thing is why this article was worded like it was. Intel "rethinks" chip performance? You mean to tell me that Intel didn't know that different IPCs were possible with different cores?

 

[NFS4]

Bah, nothing to get worked up over

 

[microAmp]

That kind of reminds me, what ever happened with that lawsuit against Intel about clock speeds/performace on the Celerons?

 

[EdipisReks]

Originally posted by: mee987
and on the celeron -- i think most of the general public doesnt know how much crappier these are than the p4's.

you'd be surprised. when i worked as a computer salesman, very computer illiterate people would say (sic) "don't you be given me no celeron, i want the Pentatium only". this was back when celerons were p3 cored, too.

 

[mee987]

but there are also quite a few people that dont know that their are other cpu's available. they think intel=pentium=processor. its like they know what a car is, they know its an automobile, but they dont know that there are also these things called "trucks".

 

[codehack2]

Originally posted by: motoamd
That kind of reminds me, what ever happened with that lawsuit against Intel about clock speeds/performace on the Celerons?

Any lawyer that takes this case falls into the same category as the a-hole(s) representing the gargantuans suing McDonalds over the fact that they can't stop stuffing cheeseburgers & shakes down their pie-hole. There is a place for people like this... I haven't determined exactly where it is, but I'm leaning towards France.

CH2

 

[DannyBoy]

"Vice President Anand"

err... is that?

 

[mee987]

anand is a common first name... somewhere. our anand = Anand Lal Shimpi

 

[DannyBoy]

AnAnd is a comon First name :Q:Q

Id never heard it before I came here!

 

[Ophir]

Originally posted by: codehack2

Originally posted by: motoamd
That kind of reminds me, what ever happened with that lawsuit against Intel about clock speeds/performace on the Celerons?

Any lawyer that takes this case falls into the same category as the a-hole(s) representing the gargantuans suing McDonalds over the fact that they can't stop stuffing cheeseburgers & shakes down their pie-hole. There is a place for people like this... I haven't determined exactly where it is, but I'm leaning towards France.

CH2

Amen! You know, I can't really think of a better place ...

 

[Ilmater]

Originally posted by: MrFiTTy
AnAnd is a comon First name :Q:Q

Id never heard it before I came here!

Yeah, I've heard it a lot recently. One of the consultants at work is named Anand, and I think it's pronounced "on" like on and off.

Originally posted by: codehack2

Originally posted by: motoamd
That kind of reminds me, what ever happened with that lawsuit against Intel about clock speeds/performace on the Celerons?

Any lawyer that takes this case falls into the same category as the a-hole(s) representing the gargantuans suing McDonalds over the fact that they can't stop stuffing cheeseburgers & shakes down their pie-hole. There is a place for people like this... I haven't determined exactly where it is, but I'm leaning towards France.

CH2

LOL. That's funny, but don't damn anyone to live in France, that's just wrong. Nobody should be put through that.

However, the case IS NOT about Celerons. The case is because the P4s get much lower IPC (instructions per clock) than their P3 predecessors, but were marketed as being faster. I think they have an incredibly strong case. My parents bought a 1.4GHz P4 back when they first came out, and I hadn't been in the grove of things for awhile, so I didn't know either. That thing just barely chugs along with 512MB of PC800 RDRAM, a 7200RPM hard drive and a decent graphics card. I think that people are totally justified in bringing up that lawsuit, and I hope to God they win. F*** Intel and their marketing b.s. It's about time someone gets called out for false advertising. Too much of it goes overlooked.

I actually saw an article on the suit quite some time ago and it brought up a lot of the advertisements that were being contested, and they really are flat-out lies. I think that if you looked into this case closely, you'd agree.

Oh, and speaking of that McDonald's case, that is the most offensive thing I've ever seen. Man I hate lawyers. And yet I wish I were one. Isn't the world funny?

 

[majewski9]

Originally posted by: dullard
So what is new?

1) The Pentium was released at 66 MHz when the 486 was running at 100 MHz. Intel said frequency isn't everything.
2) The Celeron has the same frequency as a P3 or P4 yet the Celeron runs much slower. Intel never said frequency is everything.
3) The Itanium was released at 1 GHz when P4 chips were well above that frequency. Intel said frequency isn't everything.
4) Need I go on?

Now Centrino comes along - Intel will again say frequency isn't everything. Duh, that is what Intel has said all along. It is just fanboys who claim Intel says it when they cannot give any links.

I think he meant Pentium 4's creation was based entirely for speed and not performance. Intel was losing the war with AMD with their p6 arch. If you can remember the willmette core then you should know what I am talking about. Athlon XP made mince meat out of the old wilmy for that matter TBird was also rock em sock em to the p4. Even pentium 3 was revamped for more life and pushed the p4 out of several sectors. A 20 stage pipeline was definately helpful for this creation of a ghz monster. True Intel has never said more mhz = better but heck they just might as well have said that, when they released the Willmette pentium 4.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: majewski9

Originally posted by: dullard
So what is new?

1) The Pentium was released at 66 MHz when the 486 was running at 100 MHz. Intel said frequency isn't everything.
2) The Celeron has the same frequency as a P3 or P4 yet the Celeron runs much slower. Intel never said frequency is everything.
3) The Itanium was released at 1 GHz when P4 chips were well above that frequency. Intel said frequency isn't everything.
4) Need I go on?

Now Centrino comes along - Intel will again say frequency isn't everything. Duh, that is what Intel has said all along. It is just fanboys who claim Intel says it when they cannot give any links.

I think he meant Pentium 4's creation was based entirely for speed and not performance. Intel was losing the war with AMD with their p6 arch. If you can remember the willmette core then you should know what I am talking about. Athlon XP made mince meat out of the old wilmy for that matter TBird was also rock em sock em to the p4. Even pentium 3 was revamped for more life and pushed the p4 out of several sectors. A 20 stage pipeline was definately helpful for this creation of a ghz monster. True Intel has never said more mhz = better but heck they just might as well have said that, when they released the Willmette pentium 4.

you do realize that the p4 architecture was being designed well before AMD's athlon was released, right?

anyway, mhz is like engine rpm, its not even half the equation

 

[imgod2u]

<FanboyMode>What? That's crazy talk, everyone knows that Intel designed a processor in the 6 months between the 1 GHz Athlon's release and the release of the P4 Willamette. They did it purposely to hike MHz and they sacrificed IPC to do it! Because microprocessors aren't complex things, there are 2 numbers, MHz and IPC, the Athlon has 9 and the P4 has 6. It couldn't possibly be the case that performance and hence, IPC (since MHz is static) varies with different software. And they did it in 6 months because AMD beat them to 1 GHz. Processors can be designed, tested and fabricated in mass volume in that short of time and everyone knows it!</FanboyMode>

Update: I keep getting the feeling I need to put a disclaimer in here: this was sarcasm.

 

[BFG10K]

Speed has never been the issue for laptops, weight, power requirements, heat and other similar things have been on the top of the list of concerns.

Intel's comments are hardly groundbreaking.

 

[Krk3561]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
anyway, mhz is like engine rpm, its not even half the equation

Thats a great way to put it, theres so many other factors that affect performance