News Intel 2Q25 Earnings

[Geddagod]

more mlid bs

The real ones remember the molecule/atom BS too lol

 

[Kepler_L2]

I don't think Intel can afford to delay DMR.
An interesting question if when DMR next is going to be. 27 means it uses GFC, 28 means unified core might be on the table.
Intel has yet to give us a product roadmap for the next few years. Since LBT became CEO, updates on the roadmap to the public have been nonexistent.

If they delay DMR it has to be a record for time-from-first-roadmap to launch date. I remember the first roadmaps with DMR being from like 2019.

 

[adroc_thurston]

I don't think Intel can afford to delay DMR.

It's not competitive (on any metrics) so delays are irrelevant.

28 means unified core might be on the table.

Unified Core is a 2029+ thing.

 

[Jan Olšan]

Earlier.

Wait a moment. How do you propose that timing is supposed to work out?

Lion Cove server officially has SMT/HT. That leaves only one tock core (Coyotte Cove iirc, damn these names) before Unified Core, iirc. If that core was designed without HT, there is no way they can add it back at this time without delaying it so much it lands later than the unified thingy.

Sounds doubtful to me. Is there any timeline of the server derivative launches?
Personally I would not expect it to be viable for any core in development that had no provisions for SMT to have it added later (except when it's added in while still in concept phase before it's too late), period.

I'd expect it's mostly fluff for outside readers of that letter. Basically trying to create a positive story out of HT re-appearing in Lion COve server (although it was always planned to and it isn't any sort of Lip Bu Tan leadership achievement).

 

[Joe NYC]

I don't think Intel can afford to delay DMR.
An interesting question if when DMR next is going to be. 27 means it uses GFC, 28 means unified core might be on the table.
Intel has yet to give us a product roadmap for the next few years. Since LBT became CEO, updates on the roadmap to the public have been nonexistent.

It seems that LBT is in process of formulating the server strategy, and he said he is looking for a new leader of that division. Looks like MJH portfolio is rapidly shrinking.

On another topic, LBT was asked more than once, (and also talked in his opening remarks) about the AI strategy, and in all cases he did not mention datacenter GPU (Jaguar Shores).

 

[igor_kavinski]

Why would They do that?

Because I'm sure they wouldn't want TSMC being the monopoly semicon fab in the world especially since it's in such a precarious geographical region. Need to at least have a backup plan until some other players like Rapidus/GloFlo fill the void left by the fall of Intel fabs.

 

[adroc_thurston]

Lion Cove server officially has SMT/HT.

Yes? No?
No.

 

[Joe NYC]

Wait a moment. How do you propose that timing is supposed to work out?

Lion Cove server officially has SMT/HT. That leaves only one tock core (Coyotte Cove iirc, damn these names) before Unified Core, iirc. If that core was designed without HT, there is no way they can add it back at this time without delaying it so much it lands later than the unified thingy.

Sounds doubtful to me. Is there any timeline of the server derivative launches?
Personally I would not expect it to be viable for any core in development that had no provisions for SMT to have it added later (except when it's added in while still in concept phase before it's too late), period.

I'd expect it's mostly fluff for outside readers of that letter. Basically trying to create a positive story out of HT re-appearing in Lion COve server (although it was always planned to and it isn't any sort of Lip Bu Tan leadership achievement).

I don't think Lion Cove is in any of the server CPUs.

 

[sandorski]

Because I'm sure they wouldn't want TSMC being the monopoly semicon fab in the world especially since it's in such a precarious geographical region. Need to at least have a backup plan until some other players like Rapidus/GloFlo fill the void left by the fall of Intel fabs.

Why would they do that though? It seems to me that the US is the one who would be more concerned with that. Intel is a US corp, currently the US is moving towards isolation, it needs Fabs far more than anyone else.

 

[jpiniero]

Def feels like once Intel runs out of money, China will either invade Taiwan or sabotage TSMC (once they steal all the IP)

Seems we are (well past the point) where Intel should spin off the fabs.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Why would they do that though? It seems to me that the US is the one who would be more concerned with that. Intel is a US corp, currently the US is moving towards isolation, it needs Fabs far more than anyone else.

Thousands of companies and especially small businesses around the world have no idea how to do their basic computing in anything other than Windows. x86 is important for at least the next decade while the transition to something better happens (IF it happens). Something happens to TSMC, AMD will be left without a good option too.

 

[jpiniero]

Thousands of companies and especially small businesses around the world have no idea how to do their basic computing in anything other than Windows. x86 is important for at least the next decade while the transition to something better happens (IF it happens). Something happens to TSMC, AMD will be left without a good option too.

I suppose Intel could just sell Raptor Lake 4eva.

 

[igor_kavinski]

I suppose Intel could just sell Raptor Lake 4eva.

Yeah that needs to be replaced almost every bad summer

 

[sandorski]

Thousands of companies and especially small businesses around the world have no idea how to do their basic computing in anything other than Windows. x86 is important for at least the next decade while the transition to something better happens (IF it happens). Something happens to TSMC, AMD will be left without a good option too.

Another US company. Also Nvidia and Apple. No nation outside the US is going to do this.

 

[gdansk]

Most of the reason for subsidizing Intel disappeared with TSMC building fabs in the US. Even a token fab would have been enough to show it can be done if needed. But all signs point to it being as effective as their Taiwan fabs, merely a bit more expensive to build.

I still think they can make it through this anyway. Spinning off the fabs is effectively the same as killing them. It should be delayed until it is completely proven there is no demand for anything they can make.

 

[adroc_thurston]

Most of the reason for subsidizing Intel disappeared with TSMC building fabs in the US. Even a token fab would be enough to show it can be done if needed but all signs point to it being as effective as their Taiwan fabs merely a bit more expensive to build.

The problem arises when China invades Taiwan and cheese Colby carpets TSMC R&D fabs in Taiwanese mainland with TLAMs.
Then you just have shells and a few lagging (formerly) competitors.

 

[gdansk]

The problem arises when China invades Taiwan and cheese Colby carpets TSMC R&D fabs in Taiwanese mainland with TLAMs.
Then you just have shells and a few lagging (formerly) competitors.

The "solution" to that would be cheaper than subsidizing Intel but is politically impossible. And probably would have had to have been made 40 years ago w.r.t. proliferation.

 

[Jan Olšan]

I don't think Lion Cove is in any of the server CPUs.

Panther Cove then, or whatever is the codename for Diamond Rapids. It's not the same as Lion but given how Intel ticks and tocks work it should be fundamentally the same core. Lion Cove was said to have optional HT last year, clearly for servers.

 

[gdansk]

Lion Cove was said to have optional HT last year, clearly for servers.

Intel design did say that but it seems the option wasn't exercised for the cat cove in DMR? And I have no idea why.

 

[itsmydamnation]

Intel design did say that but it seems the option wasn't exercised for the cat cove in DMR? And I have no idea why.

probably validation resources and to lower risk of needing new stepping's etc

 

[Geddagod]

It's not the same as Lion but given how Intel ticks and tocks work it should be fundamentally the same core.

Should be a "tock" over Lion. What you are describing is the core in PTL, cougar core IIRC?

 

[Geddagod]

It's not competitive (on any metrics) so delays are irrelevant.

Closing the gap should still be important for Intel retaining market share

Unified Core is a 2029+ thing.

Maybe giving the P-core team another opportunity at a tock lol

It seems that LBT is in process of formulating the server strategy, and he said he is looking for a new leader of that division. Looks like MJH portfolio is rapidly shrinking.

On another topic, LBT was asked more than once, (and also talked in his opening remarks) about the AI strategy, and in all cases he did not mention datacenter GPU (Jaguar Shores).

Interestingly enough, he ear marked coral rapids as a 28' or 29' product.

 

[adroc_thurston]

Closing the gap

In a different universe.
Different reality, perhaps?

Maybe giving the P-core team another opportunity at a tock lol

No.

 

[DavidC1]

Saying they need to pivot back to SMT is just a PR way of trying to appease critics.

Lack of SMT isn't a problem, lack of execution is. SMT obviously does not help with that though, because validation penalties are in every generation.

 

[adroc_thurston]

Lack of SMT isn't a problem

It is a problem in a world where AMD ships it.