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Insurers pin rate hikes on health law

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Doc Savage Fan said:
So...Obama was lying that rates would go up 1% to 2% as a result of Obamacare? So...state insurance regulators are all looking the other way and rubber-stamping these 'unjustified' increases? Just corporate greed as usual...gotcha.

I know this may be a stretch for you and some others here...but maybe, just maybe...rates went up a little more than normal as a result of the healthcare legislation. I can't imagine why this is so difficult to accept....but then again...maybe I can.
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ONE insurance company says it will raise rates between 1 and 9 % for SOME of its policy holders. 1% for some, 2% for some, 9% for some, ZERO % for some (perhaps large) number. For all you know, the AVERAGE increase by this SINGLE insurance company over ALL of its policyholders could easily be 1 to 2%.

But even if this SINGLE insurance company is raising its rates by ON AVERAGE 5% "because of Obamacare," that says nothing for the insurance industry as a whole. When you add in other insurance companies that are REDUCING rates because of Obamacare or aren't increasing them or are increasing them by very small amounts, then it may well be that "1 to 2%" is an accurate figure for by how much overall rates increase solely because of Obamcare.

Doc, you're an intelligent guy. Surely you don't extrapolate to a conclusion based on a single, ambiguous statement by one insurance company.
 
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nick1985 said:
Why are Democrats not proud of the healthcare bill? I dont see any of them championing it in their campaign adds
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Because they're embarrassed that they let republicans gut it when they didn't have to. I would be. They should have run it through and told the opposition party to suck it if they couldn't get on board with what the people want. Shameful.
 
shira said:
Surely you don't extrapolate to a conclusion based on a single, ambiguous statement by one insurance company.
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One insurance company? Single, ambiguous statement? Did you read the article?

"Aetna Inc., some BlueCross BlueShield plans and other smaller carriers have asked for premium increases of between 1% and 9% to pay for extra benefits required under the law, according to filings with state regulators."
"Many carriers also are seeking additional rate increases they say they need to cover rising medical costs."

"Aetna, one of the nation's largest health insurers, said the extra benefits forced it to seek rate increases for new individual plans of 5.4% to 7.4% in California and 5.5% to 6.8% in Nevada after Sept. 23. Similar steps are planned across the country, according to Aetna.

Regence BlueCross BlueShield of Oregon said the cost of providing additional benefits under the health law will account on average for 3.4 percentage points of a 17.1% premium rise for a small-employer health plan. It asked regulators last month to approve the increase.

In Wisconsin and North Carolina, Celtic Insurance Co. says half of the 18% increase it is seeking comes from complying with health-law mandates."

"In Kansas, I don't have a lot of authority to deny a rate increase, if it is justified," said Kansas Insurance Commissioner Sandy Praeger. She recently approved a 4% increase by Mennonite Mutual Aid Association to pay for the new provisions."

"A small number of insurers have submitted plans to lower rates and cite the new mandates in the legislation as the reason. HMO Colorado, a Blue Cross Blue Shield plan owned by WellPoint Inc., wrote to state regulators saying small group rates would fall 1.8% starting Oct. 1 because of changes from the law."
 
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spidey07 said:
It's common sense and also what the insurers are saying. If you require more money out from an insurance company, then premiums must increase. Remember when Obama said the bill/law would REDUCE premiums by 2500 dollars? it was sold on reducing costs, but providing much more. That doesn't make one ounce of economic sense.
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Uhhh are you completely unfamiliar with the concept of "mandate"? Rates are supposed to go down by spreading risk among more of the population with the mandate, which hasn't gone into effect yet.
 
Doc Savage Fan said:
Hmmmm....I don't think anyone here is denying that. The rub is 'why'.
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No, what we are saying is that the trend has been they are going up for years, way before Obama and the healthcare law. All of sudden, because the rates are still going up, someone with an epeen hardon to trash their favorite political figurehead is wanting to pin all the blame on them. That, and they keep making threads over and over about it as if the more threads they make will some how magically make their claims true.

The 'rub' of what you are supposedly trying to allude to is all to easy to see. There are many minor factors and "excuses" for the price hike, but the one major reason is this. Greed. Plain and simple greed.
 
Throckmorton said:
Uhhh are you completely unfamiliar with the concept of "mandate"? Rates are supposed to go down by spreading risk among more of the population with the mandate, which hasn't gone into effect yet.
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Ahhhh...by 'mandate' do you mean that healthy young people will be forced to purchase insurance so that "greedy" insurance companies will make even more money?!?
 
Doc Savage Fan said:
Ahhhh...by 'mandate' do you mean that healthy young people will be forced to purchase insurance so that "greedy" insurance companies will make even more money?!?
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Of course they'd make more money, that's why they supported the mandate, and why it would make no sense for them to cry about having to raise rates when their profits are increasing from more low risk customers.
 
soulcougher73 said:
It has nothing to do with Obama or democrats, or even republicans. It is rising because thay is what they do. They want to make as much profit as they can at the expense of our well-being. They dont care about your or anyone. Its all pure greedy profit. Enough is never enough to these type of people.
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All the BS politics aside, this is pretty much a crock of shit. In the last couple decades more, and more people have been putting anything they can on insurance to avoid having to pay for it, everything from routine check-ups to aspirin, then have the nerve to complain because their rates go up. Insurance is a business, and was never meant to be a "credit card" for every single medical expense. Between the hospital visit for an accident I had a few years ago, physical therapy, medications, and continued care via doctors visits I have had WAY more charged to insurance than I have paid into it, between things like that, and people having insurance for a couple years, then running up hundreds of thousands in medical bills for cancer, other diseases, or injuries how is a business supposed to continue to provide a service when it's paying out more than it's taking in? Yes, I realize there's many, many healthy people that do not abuse, or use their insurance, and yes I agree that both the insurance, and medical fields need to become more efficient, but to dump all the blame on insurance companies is just dishonest.
 
HumblePie said:
No, what we are saying is that the trend has been they are going up for years, way before Obama and the healthcare law. All of sudden, because the rates are still going up, someone with an epeen hardon to trash their favorite political figurehead is wanting to pin all the blame on them. That, and they keep making threads over and over about it as if the more threads they make will some how magically make their claims true.

The 'rub' of what you are supposedly trying to allude to is all to easy to see. There are many minor factors and "excuses" for the price hike, but the one major reason is this. Greed. Plain and simple greed.
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I agree that's it's unfair to 'pin all the blame' on Obama...but the facts are the facts...a portion of the hikes we're currently seeing are related to Obamacare as a direct result of it's expected impact.

You speak of greed here and this word keeps coming up over and over again as a 'talking point'...I'm curious...what does Obamacare do to reign in all this rampant corporate "greed"? I did a quick search and found ROE's currently ranging from -47% to 25% for the industry. Would you like to see caps on profits and losses? Or just profits?
 
Throckmorton said:
Of course they'd make more money, that's why they supported the mandate, and why it would make no sense for them to cry about having to raise rates when their profits are increasing from more low risk customers.
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soulcougher73 already thinks they're making way too much money as it is...and it appears that they'll be making much more money under Obamacare. Is that the gist of it?
 
spidey07 said:
What are the profit margins of health insurance companies? How does that compare to other industries? Your argument is full of shit.
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Who knows because they are mostly private companies and they decide if they want to release numbers. Those released numbers may not even be accurate.

Doc Savage Fan said:
I agree that's it's unfair to 'pin all the blame' on Obama...but the facts are the facts...a portion of the hikes we're currently seeing are related to Obamacare as a direct result of it's expected impact.

You speak of greed here and this word keeps coming up over and over again as a 'talking point'...I'm curious...what does Obamacare do to reign in all this rampant corporate "greed"? I did a quick search and found ROE's currently ranging from -47% to 25% for the industry. Would you like to see caps on profits and losses? Or just profits?
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What facts? That's what I'm asking spidey to post. All he has posted is claims made by a few companies that are run by conservatives with his mindset of disliking obama. That and he continues to make these threads for some reason everytime another claim with no actual empirical proof is made by one of these companies.

I'm not saying that there aren't companies that are not using this law as a knee-jerk excuse to up rates and then claim that it was done because of the law instead of their own greed to use any excuse they can find and pin the blame elsewhere. That is about as close of a "fact" I've found for what the law has done to raise rates.
 
spidey07 said:
What are the profit margins of health insurance companies? How does that compare to other industries? Your argument is full of shit.
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No more then you threads are full of it. Still waiting for you to show that rates are increasing at faster rate then BEFORE the Health care Bill.
 
HumblePie said:
What facts? That's what I'm asking spidey to post. All he has posted is claims made by a few companies that are run by conservatives with his mindset of disliking obama. That and he continues to make these threads for some reason everytime another claim with no actual empirical proof is made by one of these companies.

I'm not saying that there aren't companies that are not using this law as a knee-jerk excuse to up rates and then claim that it was done because of the law instead of their own greed to use any excuse they can find and pin the blame elsewhere. That is about as close of a "fact" I've found for what the law has done to raise rates.
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FYI...most states directly regulate insurance rates and have the power to approve or deny proposed rate adjustments. Insurance companies must support these proposed rate changes based on actuarial evidence. As you can see...many States are approving the proposed rate increases. They are the ones who have the facts in front of them and make their decisions accordingly.

Please know that the State Insurance Commissioners are charged with the duty to look out for the best interests of their residents...not the insurance companies interests.
 
Yep seems something else is also going up....

Executives at health insurance giants cash in as firms plan fee hikes
http://www.latimes.com/health/la-fi-insurance-salaries-20100811,0,7386070.story

Executive pay is going up.
"Leaders of Cigna, Humana, UnitedHealth, WellPoint and Aetna received nearly $200 million in compensation in 2009, according to a report, while the companies sought rate increases as high as 39%."

That can't be right? The Health Care Bill was not passed in 2009, how were rates going up faster BEFORE the health care bill and lower after?
 
Ideologues will be ideologues:

"My side is always right, yours is always wrong"

"My side never makes mistakes that I will acknowledge or point out, your side always makes mistakes that I will never stop pointing out"

So it was and so it forever shall be.
 
Our politicians exist not to govern, but only to criticize the other side. When politicians attempt to actually govern they become unpopular.
 
Doc Savage Fan said:
FYI...most states directly regulate insurance rates and have the power to approve or deny proposed rate adjustments. Insurance companies must support these proposed rate changes based on actuarial evidence. As you can see...many States are approving the proposed rate increases. They are the ones who have the facts in front of them and make their decisions accordingly.

Please know that the State Insurance Commissioners are charged with the duty to look out for the best interests of their residents...not the insurance companies interests.
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Ah, but where did I state the greed is only on the insurance companies? Some is there, some is politicians who let them do rate hikes, and some of the greed is directly from the medical industry.

But also, even in the few places with insurance regulation for rate control, the trust for regulation is left up to them. Because of the nature of insurance is based off on variables that can change, insurance companies can do all sorts of fun "predictive" formulas to come up with a rate number based on what they think they need to charge to insure people and make profit. Point being, if no claims are ever made in a year, all money paid to them is pretty much profit. Not that this scenario will ever happen, but it is a true statement. So the basically "guess" at their risk of payouts and decide what to charge.

However, looking at many financial statements released by some insurers, there is a history of higher profit gains year after year for the past decade. Yet, even with higher profit gains, the rates are still increasing. Reminds me of the oil industry 🙁 Anyhow, you can start reading here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurance and then google for profit rates of various companies. You won't find all of them, and those you do find will more than likely surprise you. And if you get surprised by the released data you do see then think about those companies that don't release data.
 
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