Insurance For Everyone DAMMIT!

[fskimospy]

So how are those "desegregated" schools working out for you? I'm sure medical care will be soooooooooooo much different though, right?

School segregation is certainly a problem in NYC but it is primarily a function of the elementary school population where people are required to attend a certain school based on their address. It's a nationwide problem, in fact. Presumably with a 'medicare for all' approach people could visit almost any hospital they choose, which would make that problem quite a bit different.

 

[glenn1]

School segregation is certainly a problem in NYC but it is primarily a function of the elementary school population where people are required to attend a certain school based on their address. It's a nationwide problem, in fact. Presumably with a 'medicare for all' approach people could visit almost any hospital they choose, which would make that problem quite a bit different.

How would it be different? The problem with both education and healthcare is the same, those with means can afford private services the poor cannot and the quality of publicly provided services will vary immensely. If a middle class or rich person doesn't like the local public school (or hospital) they'll move and the poors will be stuck. Plus an increasing number of doctors and hospitals are no longer accepting Medicaid/Medicare patients due to reimbursement rates so the poors will end up with "hospital deserts" akin to the "food deserts" they experience now. The poor don't get equivalent level of quality for almost any other publicly provided service and never have, why would we start giving them access to first class healthcare? The "universal healthcare" for the poor if it ever comes to pass will be as much a ghetto as anything else ever given to them by our government. Plus once they get their "free" healthcare the middle class will wash their hands of them and leave them to rot like we do the 1 in 3 African-American men in jail over their lifetimes nowadays.

 

[theeedude]

What's wrong with desegregated schools? Are you arguing segregated ones were better?
Health care is not rocket science, other countries have figured it out decades ago, no need to reinvent the bicycle.

 

[Mai72]

Give it to us Trump!!

Free free free health care!!!

 

[fskimospy]

How would it be different? The problem with both education and healthcare is the same, those with means can afford private services the poor cannot and the quality of publicly provided services will vary immensely. If a middle class or rich person doesn't like the local public school (or hospital) they'll move and the poors will be stuck. Plus an increasing number of doctors and hospitals are no longer accepting Medicaid/Medicare patients due to reimbursement rates so the poors will end up with "hospital deserts" akin to the "food deserts" they experience now. The poor don't get equivalent level of quality for almost any other publicly provided service and never have, why would we start giving them access to first class healthcare? The "universal healthcare" for the poor if it ever comes to pass will be as much a ghetto as anything else ever given to them by our government. Plus once they get their "free" healthcare the middle class will wash their hands of them and leave them to rot like we do the 1 in 3 African-American men in jail over their lifetimes nowadays.

So why is America magically special in that our universal health care will screw the poor while other countries don't? It never fails, any time we want to do something with government in the US conservatives believe that the country they otherwise think is the greatest is uniquely incompetent.

The problem with education and health care is not even remotely the same. One is forcibly required by address, the other is not.

 

[MustISO]

Maybe trump is planning to kill off 85% of the population so hey can easily provide healthcare to everyone who's left. PLUS, imagine all the jobs he'll bring to America to bury or burn all those bodies.

 

[agent00f]

If it's ever passed then progressives still won't be satisfied with it. There will be a "poor door" on the hospital the same way there was on this luxury condo. People with means don't let their kids go to school with the poors and they sure as hell aren't going to pay to have the poors' kids prioritized over their own in the waiting room while Buffy is waiting to get their abrasion from the polo game treated.

http://nypost.com/2016/01/17/poor-door-tenants-reveal-luxury-towers-financial-apartheid/

Is this meant as a reason not to avoid this because progressives won't be satisfied anyway? Like that's how your brain rates policy?

 

[momeNt]

So, as usual, he won't pay the private contractors and they'll go bankrupt. In this case, I guess the private contractors would be...private insurance companies? Hmm, that might actually work.

Probably didn't pay because their price was too damn high!

 

[FIVR]

It would be epic. Guy like me or sporty or sheik would praise Trump but just on this one issue. Our more conservative guys would accept it because Trump. Our Trump fluffer members would just go ape.

What are you talking about? Maybe it was different in the before times, but since I've been here you've clearly been a closet Trumper. I would say at least half of the posts I've seen you make (including the OP) are just pure concern trolling drivel meant to make Trump look semi-coherent.


Only a concern troll or an idiot would believe that Trump will create single payer healthcare.

 

[bshole]

Only a concern troll or an idiot would believe that Trump will create single payer healthcare.

I believe the statistical probability of single payer healthcare approaches one with each passing year. Eventually there will be a president that institutes it and I am firmly convinced it will happen within 30 years. The chance of single payer occurring under Trump are not absolute zero.

 

[momeNt]

What are you talking about? Maybe it was different in the before times, but since I've been here you've clearly been a closet Trumper. I would say at least half of the posts I've seen you make (including the OP) are just pure concern trolling drivel meant to make Trump look semi-coherent.


Only a concern troll or an idiot would believe that Trump will create single payer healthcare.

So you are saying The Donald is a concern troll? Insurance of everyone is consistent with his 2000 Presidential platform.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Archive/America_We_Deserve_Health_Care.htm

I’m a conservative on most issues but a liberal on health. It is an unacceptable but accurate fact that the number of uninsured Americans has risen to 42 million. Working out detailed plans will take time. But the goal should be clear: Our people are our greatest asset. We must take care of our own. We must have universal healthcare.

Our objective [should be] to make reforms for the moment and, longer term, to find an equivalent of the single-payer plan that is affordable, well-administered, and provides freedom of choice. Possible? The good news is, yes. There is already a system in place-the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program-that can act as a guide for all healthcare reform. It operates through a centralized agency that offers considerable range of choice. While this is a government program, it is also very much market-based. It allows 620 private insurance companies to compete for this market. Once a year participants can choose from plans which vary in benefits and costs.

Since 2000 he has said he wants every American insured, the equivalent of universal single payer healthcare through healthcare reform.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

What are you talking about? Maybe it was different in the before times, but since I've been here you've clearly been a closet Trumper. I would say at least half of the posts I've seen you make (including the OP) are just pure concern trolling drivel meant to make Trump look semi-coherent.


Only a concern troll or an idiot would believe that Trump will create single payer healthcare.

Hahahahaha.....hahahaha.....
You need to read more. You are absolutely wrong with your assumption.

 

[1sikbITCH]

I am genuinely curious at this point if Trump actually knows how a bill becomes a law.

Obviously not. Maybe someone could tweet this to him:

If it's ever passed then progressives still won't be satisfied with it. There will be a "poor door" on the hospital the same way there was on this luxury condo. People with means don't let their kids go to school with the poors and they sure as hell aren't going to pay to have the poors' kids prioritized over their own in the waiting room while Buffy is waiting to get their abrasion from the polo game treated.

http://nypost.com/2016/01/17/poor-door-tenants-reveal-luxury-towers-financial-apartheid/

There would still be a good showing of elitist Democrats who would love this law because they get to have their cake and eat it too. Get to proclaim how good it is and yet don't have to mingle with the swine. However I say the poor door is better than a coffin for most folks and if Trump were to make good on that it would be an epic prank on the GOP and I'd have to soften my views considerably.

 

[brianmanahan]

there's no way this will happen under trump

i don't even think it'll happen in 30 years

 

[piasabird]

You will buy my communist health Care . . . . Wha, Haa, Haa!

If something does not work get rid of it.

 

[Darwin333]

At Medicare/Medicaids historical rate of inflation we will not be able to afford it in as few as 4-6 years and I'm talking in a big way. I have yet to hear a plan that will bring down actual healthcare costs in any significant way regardless of who is paying for it.

 

[momeNt]

At Medicare/Medicaids historical rate of inflation we will not be able to afford it in as few as 4-6 years and I'm talking in a big way. I have yet to hear a plan that will bring down actual healthcare costs in any significant way regardless of who is paying for it.

Need to have price transparency of procedures so that there can be market competition for it. Right now hospitals look at bottom line P&L for determining profitability, and really do not care how much procedures cost because insurance puts no pressure on it. If there was some pressure to force pricing lower, hospitals would work towards understanding their costs, and then learn how to reduce it.

Hospitals in the US are also the equivalent of 5 star hotels vs holiday inn in other developed countries. Too much equipment, too much architectural details, drives the cost up as well.

 

[bshole]

At Medicare/Medicaids historical rate of inflation we will not be able to afford it in as few as 4-6 years and I'm talking in a big way. I have yet to hear a plan that will bring down actual healthcare costs in any significant way regardless of who is paying for it.

TRIAGE! My father-in-law died over Christmas break due to congestive heart failure at the age of 82. Funny thing was, the doctors "saved" him in back in July when his heart gave out. The six months of depression, disability, dependence and pain which he got to experience because of them "saving" him in July came at a cost north of 100K. He spent the last 6 utterly miserable months of his life in a nursing home. He was extremely upset and resentful of the doctors who "saved" him in July. He got a righteous cup of suffering because of their actions. A triage action in July would have saved taxpayers thousands of dollars and spared my father-in-law a horrific amount of suffering. TRIAGE!

They don't let you die quick anymore. They drag the fuck out of the dying process to maximize profits (and often suffering). I remember my father-in-law saying that if he had known this was how it was going to end, he would have slit his throat.. In the last few weeks, he quit taking his medicine and quit eating to speed up the dying process. Thank God that the nursing home didn't try to force the medicine or food on him, that would have been outrageous.

 

[glenn1]

TRIAGE! My father-in-law died over Christmas break due to congestive heart failure at the age of 82. Funny thing was, the doctors "saved" him in back in July when his heart gave out. The six months of depression, disability, dependence and pain which he got to experience because of them "saving" him in July came at a cost north of 100K. He spent the last 6 utterly miserable months of his life in a nursing home. He was extremely upset and resentful of the doctors who "saved" him in July. He got a righteous cup of suffering because of their actions. A triage action in July would have saved taxpayers thousands of dollars and spared my father-in-law a horrific amount of suffering. TRIAGE!

They don't let you die quick anymore. They drag the fuck out of the dying process to maximize profits (and often suffering). I remember my father-in-law saying that if he had known this was how it was going to end, he would have slit his throat.. In the last few weeks, he quit taking his medicine and quit eating to speed up the dying process. Thank God that the nursing home didn't try to force the medicine or food on him, that would have been outrageous.

Sounds like this is more a problem of lacking an advance medical directive or living will than the treatment offered. Since modern health insurance already covers so much it probably makes sense to add a benefit to cover costs for a Do Not Resuscitate order or other legal paperwork as someone may wish to have. Having the government cover trivially low-cost services like that which could save orders of magnitude more money and patient unhappiness is a worthwhile expenditure that doesn't benefit one group disproportionately at the expense of another specific group like the ACA subsidies.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Sounds like this is more a problem of lacking an advance medical directive or living will than the treatment offered. Since modern health insurance already covers so much it probably makes sense to add a benefit to cover costs for a Do Not Resuscitate order or other legal paperwork as someone may wish to have. Having the government cover trivially low-cost services like that which could save orders of magnitude more money and patient unhappiness is a worthwhile expenditure that doesn't benefit one group disproportionately at the expense of another specific group like the ACA subsidies.

Problem is if you have a directive or living will it doesn't guarantee the care giver has a copy of those documents, especially during an emergency.

 

[agent00f]

Need to have price transparency of procedures so that there can be market competition for it. Right now hospitals look at bottom line P&L for determining profitability, and really do not care how much procedures cost because insurance puts no pressure on it. If there was some pressure to force pricing lower, hospitals would work towards understanding their costs, and then learn how to reduce it.

Hospitals in the US are also the equivalent of 5 star hotels vs holiday inn in other developed countries. Too much equipment, too much architectural details, drives the cost up as well.

This is a solved problem in every other first world country through price controls. Regrettably conservatism from first principles is unconcerned about solving problems.

 

[Meghan54]

Problem is if you have a directive or living will it doesn't guarantee the care giver has a copy of those documents, especially during an emergency.

No, it's more than that. Despite people having living wills, etc., when crunch time comes, the MD invariably consults the family who, also invariably, go against the directives of said living will, rendering it useless. Have seen this happen so many times it is mind boggling. Never mind the family is just extending suffering in most cases.

 

[MongGrel]

TRIAGE! My father-in-law died over Christmas break due to congestive heart failure at the age of 82. Funny thing was, the doctors "saved" him in back in July when his heart gave out. The six months of depression, disability, dependence and pain which he got to experience because of them "saving" him in July came at a cost north of 100K. He spent the last 6 utterly miserable months of his life in a nursing home. He was extremely upset and resentful of the doctors who "saved" him in July. He got a righteous cup of suffering because of their actions. A triage action in July would have saved taxpayers thousands of dollars and spared my father-in-law a horrific amount of suffering. TRIAGE!

They don't let you die quick anymore. They drag the fuck out of the dying process to maximize profits (and often suffering). I remember my father-in-law saying that if he had known this was how it was going to end, he would have slit his throat.. In the last few weeks, he quit taking his medicine and quit eating to speed up the dying process. Thank God that the nursing home didn't try to force the medicine or food on him, that would have been outrageous.

No, it's more than that. Despite people having living wills, etc., when crunch time comes, the MD invariably consults the family who, also invariably, go against the directives of said living will, rendering it useless. Have seen this happen so many times it is mind boggling. Never mind the family is just extending suffering in most cases.

My mother-in-law is pretty much in that situation atm.

She was at the point of refusing to take her medication while in rehab, and they were going to put her in Hospice, but my wife and sister-in-law over ruled it and she has jut moved into advanced assisted living after they would not cover her in rehab anymore.

Has been about a bit of a double whammy here, had to jump through hoops 7 or so years ago with my Grandmother just trying to get her set up in assisted living, recently had to bounce around a few new things there also, but we kind of had learned the ropes a bit prior to the mother in law in that situation.