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Instead of taking sides in Green vs Red cards

Vesku

Vesku

Diamond Member
Why not talk about when we are going to see price cuts and next gen cards? I think the computer philosophy of "only upgrade when you have to" is very relevant right now. Personally, I'm trying to hold out for the 2nd gen DX11 cards.

I've heard that the next Radeons will actually be a half step because of manufacturing issues. What does nVidia have in the pipe for around the same time frame?
 
I doubt you will see anything spesific from nvidia before the soft/hard launch of their new product. IF there is a new product.

The reason for this is that i doubt nvidia wants to have another case of the Fermies.
 
The reason we can't really talk that much into the future on this forum is because nobody knows. The very very few people that do know are under NDA and can't talk about it.

Will we see price cuts when SI comes out? Possibly. I know everyone said they were waiting on price cuts when Radeon 5xxx came out, but prices didn't drop.

Will SB be much faster than 5xxx? Very Very few people know the answer, and not even they know the specific %s yet

*changed SB to SI*
 
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I never take sides when upgrading because ive owned loads of ATI and Nvidia video cards. There is only one video card I loved which was my Videologic Kyro2. PowerVR is the future 😉
 
I never was a fan of ati until I saw the ati chick in a 3d cgi and I was thinking dam she is hot. So I decided to buy radeon chips and I like them. Nvidia a beast when they have their heads together but right Now they just loosing the focus. You cannot always be on top. Competition brings better for it's customers.
 
Ben90 said:
The reason we can't really talk that much into the future on this forum is because nobody knows. The very very few people that do know are under NDA and can't talk about it.

Will we see price cuts when SB comes out? Possibly. I know everyone said they were waiting on price cuts when Radeon 5xxx came out, but prices didn't drop.

Will SB be much faster than 5xxx? Very Very few people know the answer, and not even they know the specific %s yet
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this
 
dguy6789 said:
By the time that comes out SI 2(NI?) will be a month away 😛
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Hahaha nice. I actually am not trying to predict how well future cards from either camp will do, I'm just mocking that guy because he is so clearly following one side like a religious fanatic and, as such, almost all his posts are either attacks or very blatant trolling.
 
Madcatatlas said:
I doubt you will see anything spesific from nvidia before the soft/hard launch of their new product. IF there is a new product.

The reason for this is that i doubt nvidia wants to have another case of the Fermies.
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way to show restraint and "not take sides".

I typically root for the underdog. For a long time that was daamit, now it's nvidia. maybe when nvidia regains their dominant footing I'll have 5 amd cards instead...
 
tviceman said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Robinson
I expect SI will beat the current NVDA range like a toy drum

I expect Fermi II to beat SI like range toy drum.
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I don't think so. AMD's small ball strategy has lulled nvidia into thinking that they own the single gpu higher ground forever, but with SI I think that you'll see amd getting a bit more aggressive. I fully expect 6870 to be at least as much of an improvement over 5870 as 5870 was over 4870. The only thing that we're going to see with SI (other than better perforamnce obviously) is higher temps/louder fans, though probably not as bad as fermi. In fact, we might even see the roles reversed this round with nvidia staking out a strong position in the middle ground and keeping thermals in check while amd goes for the best single gpu crown and sacrifices their heat/power advantage. If nvidia can play that card as well as amd has in the past then they'll have an advantage, though keep in mind that even at 400mm2 or so SI will still be quite a bit smaller than gtx 480.
 
bryanW1995 said:
way to show restraint and "not take sides".

I typically root for the underdog. For a long time that was daamit, now it's nvidia. maybe when nvidia regains their dominant footing I'll have 5 amd cards instead...
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What are you on about?

LOOK at your sig and then look at what you write... what are you on about?




(disclaimer, i might have missed some sarcasm, in which case it can be blamed 100% on your rather baffling starter)


back on topic --

you will apparantly see price cuts when SI is launched. SI will eat into AMDs own product lineup, obviously, but will also close to the gap on, perform on par with, or beat the best from nvidia, meaning they will cut prices aswell.

Personally, im opting for a Gainward gtx460 1g Goes like hell card for less than the standard radeon hd 5850. More than enough to enjoy most games at 1920-1080 atm.
 
bryanW1995 said:
I don't think so. AMD's small ball strategy has lulled nvidia into thinking that they own the single gpu higher ground forever, but with SI I think that you'll see amd getting a bit more aggressive. I fully expect 6870 to be at least as much of an improvement over 5870 as 5870 was over 4870. The only thing that we're going to see with SI (other than better perforamnce obviously) is higher temps/louder fans, though probably not as bad as fermi. In fact, we might even see the roles reversed this round with nvidia staking out a strong position in the middle ground and keeping thermals in check while amd goes for the best single gpu crown and sacrifices their heat/power advantage. If nvidia can play that card as well as amd has in the past then they'll have an advantage, though keep in mind that even at 400mm2 or so SI will still be quite a bit smaller than gtx 480.
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It all depends. 5850 and 5870 could become AMD's midrange when SI is released. Depending on release schedule we could see 6850 and 6870 and nothing else for a few months (all conjecture at this point of course), priced at say $349 and $299, which in turn 5870 drops to $249 and 5850 drops to $199 and the corresponding 5770 and below get a mild price drop on top of that.

Who knows though maybe SI will bring out a midrange chip first or introduce a whole family at once and make the 5870 and 5850's EOL and disappear.

It is also conceivable that in the 7 or 8 months Nvidia struggled with Fermi I, much of which involved process problems and not just design problems, was working on the next generation. So we could see "Fermi II" sooner than people think.

As to the power issue, AMD has a lot of room before it meets 470/480 power levels. I would imagine we will see them increase in power a bit but stick to making a 6970 type card in order to try to maintain the performance crown on a single card.
 
bryanW1995 said:
I don't think so. AMD's small ball strategy has lulled nvidia into thinking that they own the single gpu higher ground forever, but with SI I think that you'll see amd getting a bit more aggressive. I fully expect 6870 to be at least as much of an improvement over 5870 as 5870 was over 4870.
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I'm not trying to be negative and rain on your parade, but I don't believe AMD will make similar gains going from 5870 -> 6870 as they did going from 4870 -> 5870 and maintain their small die strategy on the same node process. Something in that equation has to give. We'll see though.
 
tviceman said:
I'm not trying to be negative and rain on your parade, but I don't believe AMD will make similar gains going from 5870 -> 6870 as they did going from 4870 -> 5870 and maintain their small die strategy on the same node process. Something in that equation has to give. We'll see though.
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The difference in the balance of the equation is that the SI engineers have had an extra year to implement and optimize their architecture over that which the Evergreen designers had.

The Evergreen team had much much less time to get acquainted with the nuances of TSMC's 40nm process tech in practice versus the models whereas the SI team had access to the same understanding of the process nuances at a much earlier phase of the SI design timeline.

It's very much the reasoning why cpu steppings can dramatically improve power-consumption. Experience with the fab reality can feed into the design cycle (not much, but still enough to make a difference).

Nothing trumps the 2x xtor budget that comes with a node shrink, but designers can do a lot of optimizations and make better use of their existing xtor budget once a node matures and a bevy of unknowns have since become knowns. (and of course this works for everyone, Nvidia included, so the advantage for SI over Evergreen can be expected for Fermi+ as well)
 
Sickamore said:
I never was a fan of ati until I saw the ati chick in a 3d cgi and I was thinking dam she is hot. So I decided to buy radeon chips and I like them. Nvidia a beast when they have their heads together but right Now they just loosing the focus. You cannot always be on top. Competition brings better for it's customers.
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Ruby was hotter when she was first introduced, looking like a redheaded Russian Pat Benatar.

They've changed her face a bit since then but she's still much better than nvidia's pixie and mermaid.

So: AMD/ATI is way ahead in the imaginary female spokesmodel race.
 
We know AMD has SI and NI in the pipeline. I'm guessing SI will be a solid upgrade over Evergreen and give us a peek at the direction AMD is heading, a bit of a preview of what to expect from NI. On the Nvidia side I haven't heard much about what is coming next. Does anyone know any rumored dates for something new from Nvidia? I imagine Fermi has used up all the physical silicon and power that can be used on 40nm. Like bryanW1995 said, there may be a bit of a role reversal with AMD having the fastest parts and Nvidia competing with aggressively priced midrange parts.
 
yasasvy said:
May be after gf106 sees the light of day.
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My apologies, I probably wasn't clear. I meant next gen from them, some new high end parts. AMD will have the efficient and well know 5xxx parts out, and in a few months SI parts should start trickling in. So I wasn't sure if Nvidia was going to release a Fermi 2, or a Fermi 1.5 like AMD's SI, seeing as 40nm looks to be the manufacturing process for these two companies for a little while yet. I wasn't sure how much Nvidia could do seeing as their GF100 is already large and power hungry compared to AMD's parts.
 
SlowSpyder said:
I imagine Fermi has used up all the physical silicon and power that can be used on 40nm.
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Consider the improvements AMD was able to make between the time they debuted the Deneb-based Phenom II X4 940 (Jan 8, 2009: 3GHz, 4 cores, 125W TDP, $275) versus the Thuban-based Phenom II X6 1090T (Apr 27, 2010: 3.2GHz, 6 cores, 125W TDP, $295).

That's 50% more cores, and at higher clockspeed (plus that 3.6GHz turbo-clock for 3 cores), all within the same power-envelope and nearly the same price-point.

You can do a lot when you have more time to become all the more acquainted with the process tech.
 
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