Installing Linux Mandrake onto a RAID 0

[scottws]

Ok, I have two Maxtor 40 GB drives set up in RAID 0. Windows XP is installed on a partition ~76 GB in size. I have 4 GB unpartitioned, where I was going to install Linux. My EPoX 8K5A2+ has a Highpoint 372 RAID controller. I located and downloaded a Linux open source driver for this controller (there was no Mandrake version), and put it on a floppy.

I tried installing Linux-Mandrake, but at the File System part of the installation, I guess it looks at my hard drives to see how they're set up. Well, since they are in RAID 0, it can't find them, and assumes they are corrupt. The installation just will not continue at this point. It just gets stuck here. There has to be a way to install Mandrake into a hardware RAID. Any ideas?

BTW, I don't want to run in software RAID, so don't bother suggesting that.

 

[scottws]

Please...

 

[cleverhandle]

The RedHat installation lets you supply a driver disk before installation - perhaps Mandrake is similar, but I don't know. If not, you won't be able to install onto the array. If you have a spare disk, it's possible to install to the spare, then move the system to the array later. You have to have a pretty good idea of what you're doing, though.

 

[sechs]

I believe that you'll need to compile a kernel with the driver included.

According to my sources, Linux and Highpoint light controllers, like the 372, do not get along.

 

[manly]

FYI, commodity onboard (and separate) RAID controllers such as Highpoint or Promise are not really hardware RAID. You should call it fake RAID or hardware-assisted RAID at best.

Anyhow, Promise provides rudimentary support for their RAID controllers in Linux. I.e. they offer binary only modules for older kernels. I seem to recall Highpoint does the same, except they're even more out of date/touch.

The bottom line is no stock Linux distro AFAIK will support fake RAID out of the box. Newer Linux kernels/distros/installers will support the chipset as ATA controllers though, but not with a *cough* RAID array.

There may be others, but the only manufacturer I've repeatedly heard of that makes *good* IDE RAID controllers is 3ware. I'm pretty sure 3ware RAID controllers are well supported by Linux, although I'm not sure who wrote the drivers (probably 3ware).

 

[cleverhandle]

Originally posted by: manly


Anyhow, Promise provides rudimentary support for their RAID controllers in Linux. I.e. they offer binary only modules for older kernels. I seem to recall Highpoint does the same, except they're even more out of date/touch.

That was the old days - there are drivers for both of these in the standard kernel now. I'm not sure if the kernel drivers support the Highpoint 372 RAID functions, though.

The bottom line is no stock Linux distro AFAIK will support fake RAID out of the box.

RH almost does - you just need the driver disk, which might even be included with the distro (?). Not sure if you want to call that "out of the box" or not.

 

[manly]

Well ain't I behind the times. I don't understand why you'd need a separate disk from Red Hat though; the installer either supports a device in its install image or it doesn't. Extra modules disks generally would provide 3rd party support, no?

It's still fake RAID though.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: manly
Well ain't I behind the times. I don't understand why you'd need a separate disk from Red Hat though; the installer either supports a device in its install image or it doesn't. Extra modules disks generally would provide 3rd party support, no?

It's still fake RAID though.

No, its still raid. Bios assited software raid. So fake hardware raid maybe

 

[scottws]

That sucks. Even the "most newbie friendly" Linux distro is a pain in the neck, then. Haven't RAID controllers (software, hardware-assisted, or hardware) been around for awhile. Didn't Mandrake 9.0 just come out not long ago. Even their newest OS is archaic.

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: scottws
That sucks. Even the "most newbie friendly" Linux distro is a pain in the neck, then. Haven't RAID controllers (software, hardware-assisted, or hardware) been around for awhile. Didn't Mandrake 9.0 just come out not long ago. Even their newest OS is archaic.

Doesn't sound fair to blame Highpoint/Promise's unability/unwillingness to provide drivers, or even provides specs so someone else can write a driver, on the Linux vendors, does it?
How do you expect Mandrake to supply drivers when Highpoint neither supplies drivers nor documentation?

If anything, Highpoint/Promise sucks for not even handing out docs.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Sunner

Originally posted by: scottws
That sucks. Even the "most newbie friendly" Linux distro is a pain in the neck, then. Haven't RAID controllers (software, hardware-assisted, or hardware) been around for awhile. Didn't Mandrake 9.0 just come out not long ago. Even their newest OS is archaic.

Doesn't sound fair to blame Highpoint/Promise's unability/unwillingness to provide drivers, or even provides specs so someone else can write a driver, on the Linux vendors, does it?
How do you expect Mandrake to supply drivers when Highpoint neither supplies drivers nor documentation?

If anything, Highpoint/Promise sucks for not even handing out docs.

Forget it, he sounds like a troll.

 

[scottws]

Originally posted by: Sunner

Doesn't sound fair to blame Highpoint/Promise's unability/unwillingness to provide drivers, or even provides specs so someone else can write a driver, on the Linux vendors, does it?
How do you expect Mandrake to supply drivers when Highpoint neither supplies drivers nor documentation?

If anything, Highpoint/Promise sucks for not even handing out docs.

Maybe so. But I had found a driver for the RAID controller. The problem was that Mandrake's installation process doesn't allow you to install third party drivers. Or if it does, it makes it very difficult to do so.

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Forget it, he sounds like a troll.

I was just frustrated. I just gave up and reformatted my drive with one large partition for Windows, no unpartitioned space. I was looking forward to trying out Linux. Oh well.

Thanks anyway people.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: scottws

Originally posted by: Sunner

Doesn't sound fair to blame Highpoint/Promise's unability/unwillingness to provide drivers, or even provides specs so someone else can write a driver, on the Linux vendors, does it?
How do you expect Mandrake to supply drivers when Highpoint neither supplies drivers nor documentation?

If anything, Highpoint/Promise sucks for not even handing out docs.

Maybe so. But I had found a driver for the RAID controller. The problem was that Mandrake's installation process doesn't allow you to install third party drivers. Or if it does, it makes it very difficult to do so.

Try one that does. Or follow my advice at the bottom.

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Forget it, he sounds like a troll.

I was just frustrated. I just gave up and reformatted my drive with one large partition for Windows, no unpartitioned space. I was looking forward to trying out Linux. Oh well.

Thanks anyway people.

Buy quality hardware. RAID 0 sucks. HPT/Promise suck. 3ware rocks.

 

[Bremen]

Buy quality hardware. RAID 0 sucks. HPT/Promise suck. 3ware rocks.

Give it up n0c, some people just can't get it through their heads that calling something raid dosn't make it so (many just don't want to acknowledge they've been had). For instance, I used to work at a coffee bar and it boggles the mind how many people actually believe wawa sells cappuccino.

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: Bremen

Buy quality hardware. RAID 0 sucks. HPT/Promise suck. 3ware rocks.

Give it up n0c, some people just can't get it through their heads that calling something raid dosn't make it so (many just don't want to acknowledge they've been had). For instance, I used to work at a coffee bar and it boggles the mind how many people actually believe wawa sells cappuccino.

Well, actually it is RAID, it's just lousy RAID.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Bremen

Buy quality hardware. RAID 0 sucks. HPT/Promise suck. 3ware rocks.

Give it up n0c, some people just can't get it through their heads that calling something raid dosn't make it so (many just don't want to acknowledge they've been had). For instance, I used to work at a coffee bar and it boggles the mind how many people actually believe wawa sells cappuccino.

WTF is wawa?

 

[cleverhandle]

Convenience store - think 7 Eleven or White Hen. Little bit weirder, though.

 

[scottws]

Ok, so Highpoint RAID sucks. I didn't know.

What makes a true hardware RAID like 3ware better? Is it faster? Less prone to error? What?

 

[scottws]

Whoa. I just looked at a 3ware RAID controller on Newegg. $400. I think I'll stick with my fake/hardware-assisted Highpoint RAID.

And no one answered my question. What are the benefits of a standalone, true hardware RAID controller over Highpoint RAID?

 

[cleverhandle]

There are much cheaper 3ware controllers out there. I believe there used to be a simple one for RAID 0/1/10/0+1 with only two ATA100 channels for about $125. The expensive ones that have 4+ channels and do RAID 5 are overkill for a home system.

The 3ware controllers are just plain faster than the Highpoint/Promise ones. Could be more efficient firmware, better drivers, or just the effect of not relying on the CPU to do the calculations - don't know. But check out Storage Review if you want to get ideas of the speeds.

 

[n0cmonkey]

I like the fact the hardware does the work and all the software does is interact with the hardware. Its not exactly the same with the software raid controllers (I may be saying this wrong though...). So in theory, I could remove an, for example, adaptec scsi raid controller from a Windows machine and throw it in a Linux machine and not lose the data. With the Promise controllers (for example) the software isnot necessarily compatible between Linux and Windows. As in the Linux software creates the raid differently and addresses it differently or something, so I may not be able to mount that raid array in Linux if it was created in Windows.

 

[Bremen]

I don't know if you're familiar with winmodems, but the concept is the same. Instead of having the card do RAID, it is done by the CPU via software emulation. For all intents and purposes those highpoint/promise cards could be considered just plain vanilla ATA controllers (with a few added quirks). The software then emulates a RAID environment (this is also why these cards don't do RAID 5, the CPU can't do the calculations fast enough).

The linux kernel already does this BTW, in fact I've heard that using linux raid emulation is faster than using the highpoint/promise card as if it was a RAID card :0) Could be just hot air though.

What makes a true hardware RAID like 3ware better? Is it faster? Less prone to error? What?

Since you're not using the proc it is faster. Of course for simple RAID's like 0 and 1 the calculations are rather simple, but some people don't want to waste a single proc cycle if they don't have too :0)

 

[Bremen]

EDIT: double post

 

[cleverhandle]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
...With the Promise controllers (for example) the software is not necessarily compatible between Linux and Windows. As in the Linux software creates the raid differently and addresses it differently or something, so I may not be able to mount that raid array in Linux if it was created in Windows.

That last part isn't true. I've had both Windows and Linux installed on the same Promise array before, and Linux can read the whole disk, including Windows-created partitions, just fine. Windows, of course, won't read the Linux partition, but it does recognize it's existence in disk management.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: cleverhandle

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
...With the Promise controllers (for example) the software is not necessarily compatible between Linux and Windows. As in the Linux software creates the raid differently and addresses it differently or something, so I may not be able to mount that raid array in Linux if it was created in Windows.

That last part isn't true. I've had both Windows and Linux installed on the same Promise array before, and Linux can read the whole disk, including Windows-created partitions, just fine. Windows, of course, won't read the Linux partition, but it does recognize it's existence in disk management.

Its less "not true" and more "out of date". I wasnt aware Promise opened their specs and whatnot allowing open source drivers to be written an compatible with the rest of the drivers.