Installing crown molding. Is a rear wood base strip necessary or can I nail straight to the wall?

[StageLeft]

I think maybe the guy at Lowes didn't know much more than me, but I have some of that 45 degree molding with a big space behind. I can nail this straight to the stud behind the wall, but I am wondering if this is supposed to nail to a wooden strip that is screwed into the wall, for a super-strong base. I hate doing things wrong, so I need to be sure

 

[thirdeye]

I've always used an electric brad nailer and just shot them right into the wall. If your walls are reasonably square you should be ok like that. Mine haven't fallen down yet anyways.

 

[Jumpem]

I have always seen it nailed right to the drywall.

 

[ICRS]

If you nail the molding into the wall, won't people see the nails. Why not glue it

 

[Capt Caveman]

Just into the dry wall will be fine.

Space out nails every 18" and it's not going anywhere

 

[LikeLinus]

Originally posted by: ICRS
If you nail the molding into the wall, won't people see the nails. Why not glue it

Not if you use a finish/brad nailer or a nail set and push the nail resessed into the wood. Then you take some paintable silicon or wood putty and fill the holes. Then you paint over that and you'll never see them.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

I gotta love people that give answers without knowing enough information.

What size molding did you buy? If it is 3" or less, you can use 2.5" finish nails and go right into the 2x4 header.

3-5" is a fuzzy area. You might need to rip strips of 1" wide plywood (use 5/8" or great plywood) and nail those to the wall first then nail the crown into that.

For some 5.5" molding I put up, I actually ripped 2/4s down the middle on a 45 degreed angle then installed those first using a framing nailer. Then I used a finish nailer to instal the crown into the new pieces of 2x4. It worked out great. It's easier to just do the whole ceiling if you go this route.

So, it really comes down to what size molding you are talking about.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Originally posted by: LikeLinus

Originally posted by: ICRS
If you nail the molding into the wall, won't people see the nails. Why not glue it

Not if you use a brad nailer or a nail set and push the nail deep into the wood. Then you take some paintable silicon or wood putty and fill the holes. Then you paint over that and you'll never see them.

Exactly. I can not remember the name of it, but there is a fine paste you can use to fill nail holes. The stuff woks great. I usually just use painters caulk.

 

[DrPizza]

I recently put some up in my dining room - unfortunately, I can't answer your question because I had just put tongue & groove up on my entire ceiling. Make sure you read up on the cuts for the corners. Without much thought, people think they simply miter them at 45 degrees. Wrong. Also double check that it's 45 degree molding; when I purchased mine, I discovered that it was actually 52/38 degrees. I think I've seen you post before that you have quite a few tools - this is the perfect time to purchase a cheap compound miter saw if you don't already have one.

 

[StageLeft]

Thanks!

I will go straight into wall. This stuff is no more than about 2". I have some paneling nails but they're a smidge under 2", but I think it should be enough for a good trip into the studs. I don't have a special nailer--just these nails and a hammer. Hopefully I can hit them in hard enough that painter's caulk over top would do it (I would use lightweight spackling), unless people are sure that a hammer plus paneling nails is not going to work

DrPizza, I cheaped out and bought a $14 miter block with handsaw. In the pic it showed somebody with molding so I thought it would be ok!

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Thanks!

I will go straight into wall. This stuff is no more than about 2". I have some paneling nails but they're a smidge under 2", but I think it should be enough for a good trip into the studs. I don't have a special nailer--just these nails and a hammer. Hopefully I can hit them in hard enough that painter's caulk over top would do it (I would use lightweight spackling), unless people are sure that a hammer plus paneling nails is not going to work

DrPizza, I cheaped out and bought a $14 miter block with handsaw. In the pic it showed somebody with molding so I thought it would be ok!

Use a nailset to set the nails:
http://www.hardwarestore.com/m...ct/221010_front200.jpg

Miter cuts with crown moulding aren't really intuitive. You have to put the wood in the miter box just like it'd be against the wall, but upside down (so that the bottom of the miter box is flush against the ceiling side of the moulding.

This explains it:
http://www.askthebuilder.com/3...Losing_your_Mind.shtml

And as Dr Pizza alluded, the inside corners should be cope joints. Cut it in the miter box like you would if you were doing an inside miter joint, then use a coping saw to cut along the curved line. The other piece of wood should just be cut straight. They'll nest together.

 

[StageLeft]

Thanks mugs, all that nailset is is a heavy duty pin to push the nail in a touch further, right? Couldn't I similarly just use a much heavier duty nail or something similar?

 

[LikeLinus]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Thanks mugs, all that nailset is is a heavy duty pin to push the nail in a touch further, right? Couldn't I similarly just use a much heavier duty nail or something similar?

Not with as much ease as a nail set. Nail sets have concaved heads and it allows it to sit on the head of the nail and drive it in. Another nail has a pointed tip and it's going to be hard to strike it well enough without that point wanting to move off and you make a big hole.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Thanks mugs, all that nailset is is a heavy duty pin to push the nail in a touch further, right? Couldn't I similarly just use a much heavier duty nail or something similar?

You could try, but you'll find that the nailset works better and only costs ~$2-3.

 

[amdskip]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Thanks mugs, all that nailset is is a heavy duty pin to push the nail in a touch further, right? Couldn't I similarly just use a much heavier duty nail or something similar?

Skoorb, drive the nails close to the face of the molding and then get yourself a set of stanley nailsets to drive them in past the face. using another nail is just too cumbersome.

BTW, do you have an air compressor? An air nailer will make this job 100x easier.

 

[bctbct]

Try to nail it into the top plate or the studs. Tough project with a miter box and a hand saw. If it is going to be painted you can fix about anything but if you are staining you better invest or rent a power miter box.

best nail set ever invented

 

[LikeLinus]

Originally posted by: amdskip

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Thanks mugs, all that nailset is is a heavy duty pin to push the nail in a touch further, right? Couldn't I similarly just use a much heavier duty nail or something similar?

Skoorb, drive the nails close to the face of the molding and then get yourself a set of stanley nailsets to drive them in past the face. using another nail is just too cumbersome.

BTW, do you have an air compressor? An air nailer will make this job 100x easier.

So true about the Air Compressor. I didn't have one until I started building my workshop in May. I picked up the Porter Cable 3 gun kit (staple, finish and brad) with pancake compressor and have loved it ever since. Heck, my wife even loves it. She re-covered our breakfast area chairs with a new fabric and used the staple gun. Two thumbs up. Worth the $269!

 

[Greenman]

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004
I gotta love people that give answers without knowing enough information.

What size molding did you buy? If it is 3" or less, you can use 2.5" finish nails and go right into the 2x4 header.

3-5" is a fuzzy area. You might need to rip strips of 1" wide plywood (use 5/8" or great plywood) and nail those to the wall first then nail the crown into that.

For some 5.5" molding I put up, I actually ripped 2/4s down the middle on a 45 degreed angle then installed those first using a framing nailer. Then I used a finish nailer to instal the crown into the new pieces of 2x4. It worked out great. It's easier to just do the whole ceiling if you go this route.

So, it really comes down to what size molding you are talking about.

I hate to argue, but I've never seen crown installed in the manner you describe, and I've been a carpenter for for over thirty years. No matter how large the crown is, you nail through the edges where it sits flat to the wall. The only time you add something behind it is when you want a Victorian look, in that case a piece of base board or other shaped material is nailed to the ceiling and to the wall and the crown rests on those two pieces. It gives the impression of a much wider crown.

 

[StageLeft]

OK last question--this is going into a family room and at the end of the wall where I'm going to stop it turns a corner and enters a hallway, so instead of finishing up against a wall, it will finish against space (an outside corner). What is the general approach to finishing this end bit; do I run it straight up to the end of the wall or stop short a few inches? I will probably cap it with a thin bit of modeling ply that I shape to the end of the molding as opposed to using a "decorative" end, but not decided yet on that point.

 

[LikeLinus]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
OK last question--this is going into a family room and at the end of the wall where I'm going to stop it turns a corner and enters a hallway, so instead of finishing up against a wall, it will finish against space (an outside corner). What is the general approach to finishing this end bit; do I run it straight up to the end of the wall or stop short a few inches? I will probably cap it with a thin bit of modeling ply that I shape to the end of the molding as opposed to using a "decorative" end, but not decided yet on that point.

Self Return = I made mine where the end point is about an 1/8" of in from the wall. I then did an end piece that sits flush against the wall. That ends up with it sitting flush against the outside edge.

Ends up looking like this:

http://www.crownmoulding.com/i...ldings/self_return.jpg

Better picture: http://www.altereagle.com/2_How_to_insta/IMAG025A.JPG

See how the lower molding ends itself into the wall? That's a self ending. Now I just did that to the outside of the wall in our room.

 

[StageLeft]

Great, that is what I wanted. Guy at Lowes clearly had not heard of them, I'm afraid!

 

[drnickriviera]

i'll reinforce what mugs said. You should cope inside corners. Once you get used to it, you'll see it's far superior to miters. walls are rarely a perfect 90 degrees. It's the perfect time to add a new tool to your aresenal: the coping saw

 

[Bignate603]

Originally posted by: drnickriviera
i'll reinforce what mugs said. You should cope inside corners. Once you get used to it, you'll see it's far superior to miters. walls are rarely a perfect 90 degrees. It's the perfect time to add a new tool to your aresenal: the coping saw

That's a trick I didn't know, makes a huge amount of sense though.

 

[slsmnaz]

Originally posted by: amdskip

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Thanks mugs, all that nailset is is a heavy duty pin to push the nail in a touch further, right? Couldn't I similarly just use a much heavier duty nail or something similar?

Skoorb, drive the nails close to the face of the molding and then get yourself a set of stanley nailsets to drive them in past the face. using another nail is just too cumbersome.

BTW, do you have an air compressor? An air nailer will make this job 100x easier.

you can also go rent a cordless one from HD for about $50. Well worth the money from my experience a few months ago

 

[StageLeft]

I will pick up a coping saw. I presume that the angle I cut will have to be at least 45 degrees, too, but I saw a vid online of a guy using one and it looks not too bad and only a few bucks, so I'll use it on the insides.