News Instacart is firing every employee who voted to unionize

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brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
25,992
23,792
136
Indeed, I have to agree with you on this. We need to get back to our roots and learn from the barons of capitalism that made the United States a great country. The Chinese seem to have this figured out so wtf is taking us so long?
So back to the gilded age and robber barons? We already have an income distribution that looks like the gilded age.
 
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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,452
9,837
136
Im not sure what you're saying here. The Chinese capitalists abuse their workers. The Chinese workers, from what I've read, have started to demand more.

Workers in america fought for decades to unionize, and capitalists fought them for every inch. By the end of the 60's more than 70% of workers were union members.

Capitalists formulated a plan to end that, and it worked fabulously. Outsource labor to a foreign country with tons of cheap labor.
They also got union members to vote for a very anti-union platform, because they hate civil rights more than they love their own rights.
 
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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,452
9,837
136
Which doesn't make much sense at all to me either. Right now they dump all the cost of buying and maintaining a fleet of cars, as well as the liability of piloting them onto their contractors. They've outsourced basically all of the costs already. Assuming they some how built their own fleet of self driving cars they'd lose even more money. And they couldn't even blame the auto accidents on the rubes driving the cars anymore since that would be Uber as well.
Most of these companies only make sense if they become monopolies and necessities, allowing them to charge whatever they want. However they've all been setup in industries with low barriers of entry and industries that have strong inelastic demand curves.

Basically, their business models suck and they'll never be worth their inflated market share.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
31,493
9,824
136
How do you believe their action is being misconstrued?

Is the thread title untrue?
hmmm, i do recall greenman saying that "biden has been president for a day, 400k americans dead" was a technically accurate and acceptable headline (assuming the headline was real in the first place)
 

Toastedlightly

Diamond Member
Aug 7, 2004
7,212
5
81
Not that I want to be considered a robber baron, but I can't say that 10 union members were specifically targeted. They layoffs involved 2,000 total workers. It may have been a coincidence that the 10 unionized employees were all at a store that may have moved to its own curbside model.

I'm all for holding businesses accountable, but is this really what the initial story sold it as?

"
Instacart is firing every employee who voted to unionize
The layoffs are hitting 10 unionized workers in Skokie, Illinois, in addition to [1,990 other] Instacart employees
"
Added my own detail to the headline.
 

Scarpozzi

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
26,389
1,777
126
Since they were fighting for things like vacation time and health insurance, it's pretty pathetic that a company with 10000 employees isn't providing that. This is why I support medicare for all, in a capitalist society, there's no expectations of the employer. Add mandatory vacations to the list now. Earned PTO is fine, but it should be expected. Legislate if necessary.
I somewhat agree with you, but how many hours do those employees actually work? I was under the assumption they were paid by the job and not by the hour. The company is likely insulated since it's a service industry like Uber/Lyft drivers... They likely have so many employees because the market requires that kind of workforce to handle the number of orders divided by a part-time commitment by most of their workers. I'm sure there are some that spend countless hours picking groceries from shelves or using the curbside pickup networks to save time and snag orders.

When you think about the skillset it takes to use a picklist to grocery shop for people, and drive the groceries to their house....it likely doesn't even require high school education. Why do they deserve extended benefits (not being cruel here, but suggesting the business may not generate as much money as is required to provide those benefits without more tangible order requirements by Instantcart to pay for them) I'm not sure what instant-cart costs because I've not used them before, but have seen that they thrive most in markets where most people don't own cars. (ie. Big cities or resort cities where people are in condos/hotels with no rental vehicles) In both cases, people are willing to pay for the delivery fees because it's cheaper, more convenient, and possibly faster than renting a car or using public transportation. Of course, as I suggested with Kroger, there are many other competitors in the space, including Amazon. Prime Now and Whole Foods are taking a chunk out of the market, In-sourced delivery options and a greater curbside offering makes this a rocky place to invest. Unless you go with the companies that own the distribution too... Vertical integration is where it's at....that's also where employees will likely get more benefits if they want them.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
31,493
9,824
136
I somewhat agree with you, but how many hours do those employees actually work? I was under the assumption they were paid by the job and not by the hour. The company is likely insulated since it's a service industry like Uber/Lyft drivers... They likely have so many employees because the market requires that kind of workforce to handle the number of orders divided by a part-time commitment by most of their workers. I'm sure there are some that spend countless hours picking groceries from shelves or using the curbside pickup networks to save time and snag orders.

When you think about the skillset it takes to use a picklist to grocery shop for people, and drive the groceries to their house....it likely doesn't even require high school education. Why do they deserve extended benefits (not being cruel here, but suggesting the business may not generate as much money as is required to provide those benefits without more tangible order requirements by Instantcart to pay for them) I'm not sure what instant-cart costs because I've not used them before, but have seen that they thrive most in markets where most people don't own cars. (ie. Big cities or resort cities where people are in condos/hotels with no rental vehicles) In both cases, people are willing to pay for the delivery fees because it's cheaper, more convenient, and possibly faster than renting a car or using public transportation. Of course, as I suggested with Kroger, there are many other competitors in the space, including Amazon. Prime Now and Whole Foods are taking a chunk out of the market, In-sourced delivery options and a greater curbside offering makes this a rocky place to invest. Unless you go with the companies that own the distribution too... Vertical integration is where it's at....that's also where employees will likely get more benefits if they want them.

Because we as a society agree that there is a fundamental dignity to labor, no matter how skillful or skillless, and that the objective of humanity is not simply economical output but an enriching human experience. Which means living wages, adequate time off, and universal healthcare.

Obviously society isn't at that viewpoint and agreement yet. That's where I'd like it to be though.
 

Scarpozzi

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
26,389
1,777
126
Because we as a society agree that there is a fundamental dignity to labor, no matter how skillful or skillless, and that the objective of humanity is not simply economical output but an enriching human experience. Which means living wages, adequate time off, and universal healthcare.

Obviously society isn't at that viewpoint and agreement yet. That's where I'd like it to be though.
Yes. The problem though always goes back to the ability for an individual corporation (or let's say a guy that starts an his own LLC) to pay those costs and not go into debt. Universal Healthcare would potentially make that possible. In particular, getting Insurance companies and hospital administration waste out of the picture would go a very long way. Billions of dollars are funneled away from the patients AND actual providers in those networks. It's nuts.

I'm all for humanity. I just ask the question...if you paid an individual $10 to spend 30 minutes grocery shopping and delivering your groceries to you and 100% of that money goes to them (before taxes). How many deliveries would they have to make per day to have a living wage and pay for their benefits? 30 minutes shopping plus 30 minutes driving...maybe doing 2 orders and collecting $20/hour, not counting gas expenses and wear & tear on the car...I'm trying to figure out how they could even make that work financially unless they lived with their parents and drove someone else's car. What does InstantCart make per delivery? Flat rate or do they markup all products? (I really don't know and only sort of care) I still think the market is going to provide the consumer with cheaper options from better compensated employees and Instant Cart will only work in major cities where you have 100% competition and extreme rural situations (no competition) effectively.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,004
19,444
136
I somewhat agree with you, but how many hours do those employees actually work? I was under the assumption they were paid by the job and not by the hour. The company is likely insulated since it's a service industry like Uber/Lyft drivers... They likely have so many employees because the market requires that kind of workforce to handle the number of orders divided by a part-time commitment by most of their workers. I'm sure there are some that spend countless hours picking groceries from shelves or using the curbside pickup networks to save time and snag orders.

When you think about the skillset it takes to use a picklist to grocery shop for people, and drive the groceries to their house....it likely doesn't even require high school education. Why do they deserve extended benefits (not being cruel here, but suggesting the business may not generate as much money as is required to provide those benefits without more tangible order requirements by Instantcart to pay for them) I'm not sure what instant-cart costs because I've not used them before, but have seen that they thrive most in markets where most people don't own cars. (ie. Big cities or resort cities where people are in condos/hotels with no rental vehicles) In both cases, people are willing to pay for the delivery fees because it's cheaper, more convenient, and possibly faster than renting a car or using public transportation. Of course, as I suggested with Kroger, there are many other competitors in the space, including Amazon. Prime Now and Whole Foods are taking a chunk out of the market, In-sourced delivery options and a greater curbside offering makes this a rocky place to invest. Unless you go with the companies that own the distribution too... Vertical integration is where it's at....that's also where employees will likely get more benefits if they want them.

So you think there should be a subset of humans that no matter how hard they work, because it does not require education, should have below living wages, zero vacation and no healthcare.

You are a bad hombre.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
37,734
18,004
146
I somewhat agree with you, but how many hours do those employees actually work? I was under the assumption they were paid by the job and not by the hour. The company is likely insulated since it's a service industry like Uber/Lyft drivers... They likely have so many employees because the market requires that kind of workforce to handle the number of orders divided by a part-time commitment by most of their workers. I'm sure there are some that spend countless hours picking groceries from shelves or using the curbside pickup networks to save time and snag orders.

When you think about the skillset it takes to use a picklist to grocery shop for people, and drive the groceries to their house....it likely doesn't even require high school education. Why do they deserve extended benefits (not being cruel here, but suggesting the business may not generate as much money as is required to provide those benefits without more tangible order requirements by Instantcart to pay for them) I'm not sure what instant-cart costs because I've not used them before, but have seen that they thrive most in markets where most people don't own cars. (ie. Big cities or resort cities where people are in condos/hotels with no rental vehicles) In both cases, people are willing to pay for the delivery fees because it's cheaper, more convenient, and possibly faster than renting a car or using public transportation. Of course, as I suggested with Kroger, there are many other competitors in the space, including Amazon. Prime Now and Whole Foods are taking a chunk out of the market, In-sourced delivery options and a greater curbside offering makes this a rocky place to invest. Unless you go with the companies that own the distribution too... Vertical integration is where it's at....that's also where employees will likely get more benefits if they want them.

Sure, which is why I'm saying that if we're gonna treat people as lesser than, then society picks up the tab for it. Corporate welfare needs to end. If a corporation is sitting on a pile of cash because they're capitalizing on cheap labor, then we need to tax corporations more.
 
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