Insanity defense is insane

[disappoint]

How the hell is not guilty by reason of insanity a defense? If someone is insane, that's even MORE reason to lock their goofy ass up!

 

[IronWing]

Most states have gone to a "guilty but insane" verdict. You don't walk but you might avoid a death penalty in capital cases.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Generally, if someone is declared legally insane after committing a crime, they are locked up, just in a mental institution rather than the traditional penitentiary. It's not like they're just turned loose back on the street because they're nuts.

 

[Arkaign]

Generally, if someone is declared legally insane after committing a crime, they are locked up, just in a mental institution rather than the traditional penitentiary. It's not like they're just turned loose back on the street because they're nuts.

Yeap.

 

[DesiPower]

isn't there a movie where a Russian, a spy or something, challenges the American justice system by killing someone on tape and walking away uncharged, deliberately using insanity...

 

[HamburgerBoy]

isn't there a movie where a Russian, a spy or something, challenges the American justice system by killing someone on tape and walking away uncharged, deliberately using insanity...

Sounds unrealistic enough to exist. :thumbsup:

 

[crashtestdummy]

How the hell is not guilty by reason of insanity a defense? If someone is insane, that's even MORE reason to lock their goofy ass up!

You have to think about the reasons for laws and punishment. Is punishment a retribution for an act, where the victim takes something from the criminal in return for the crime committed (eye for an eye), or is it a way to prevent future crimes by presenting a set of consequences to would-be criminals and the offender that are significantly worse than the possible benefit of the crime, so causing them to re-think their actions in the future?

If it is the former, than the criminally insane should be treated like any other criminal, and punished for the sake of retribution.

If, however, punishment is meant as a way to preserve order and prevent future crimes, then punishing the insane will do no good. Other insane people will not respond to proposed negative consequences in a rational matter, and the criminal in question won't cease being insane by going to prison. By sending them to a mental hospital, however, there is a chance (however slight) that their condition can be brought under control to the point where they can be productive, unoffending citizens again.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

You have to think about the reasons for laws and punishment. Is punishment a retribution for an act, where the victim takes something from the criminal in return for the crime committed (eye for an eye), or is it a way to prevent future crimes by presenting a set of consequences to would-be criminals and the offender that are significantly worse than the possible benefit of the crime, so causing them to re-think their actions in the future?

If it is the former, than the criminally insane should be treated like any other criminal, and punished for the sake of retribution.

If, however, punishment is meant as a way to preserve order and prevent future crimes, then punishing the insane will do no good. Other insane people will not respond to proposed negative consequences in a rational matter, and the criminal in question won't cease being insane by going to prison. By sending them to a mental hospital, however, there is a chance (however slight) that their condition can be brought under control to the point where they can be productive, unoffending citizens again.

I find both your premise and your conclusions disagreeable. Execution does more than prevent other murderers from committing violent acts through fear of punishment; it prevents the initial convicted murderer from repeating his crimes. In the former case, retribution is meaningless because I don't see how one can hold a criminally insane individual to any meaningful moral standard. If said criminal is a pedophile/murderer with sub-70 IQ, he has likely little/no control over his actions and to express moral superiority through a firing squad is pretty heartless itself. The insane should be executed only if they cannot be cured.

 

[Modelworks]

I have met people that were truly insane and am amazed at the number of people that get away with the defense in court, those people are not insane they have good lawyers.

One guy I encountered was brought into a facility , locked into a seclusion room (not really a padded cell, just a room with only a mattress on the floor, nothing else) . He was calm and I even spoke to him a couple times through the windows in the door, he thought he was a werewolf and was telling everyone he was going to change that night. About 4 hours later all the staff were called to the room, the guy had removed his eyes using his fingers. That is insanity.

 

[Modelworks]

Generally, if someone is declared legally insane after committing a crime, they are locked up, just in a mental institution rather than the traditional penitentiary. It's not like they're just turned loose back on the street because they're nuts.

Actually they are locked up in a prison. Prisons have mental wards dedicated to the legally insane. Most institutions will not accept criminals and they really don't have the bed space or staffing to do so. The downsizing of mental health facilities in the USA is atrocious with an average of 30-40% too few beds.

 

[Scotteq]

I find both your premise and your conclusions disagreeable. Execution does more than prevent other murderers from committing violent acts through fear of punishment; it prevents the initial convicted murderer from repeating his crimes. In the former case, retribution is meaningless because I don't see how one can hold a criminally insane individual to any meaningful moral standard. If said criminal is a pedophile/murderer with sub-70 IQ, he has likely little/no control over his actions and to express moral superiority through a firing squad is pretty heartless itself. The insane should be executed only if they cannot be cured.

Check out a guy named Albert Fish - He was so sick that even though the jury agreed that he was clearly insane.... the jury also thought it best to put him to death anyhow.

 

[zinfamous]

How the hell is not guilty by reason of insanity a defense? If someone is insane, that's even MORE reason to lock their goofy ass up!

this is infinitely stupid.

 

[crashtestdummy]

I find both your premise and your conclusions disagreeable. Execution does more than prevent other murderers from committing violent acts through fear of punishment; it prevents the initial convicted murderer from repeating his crimes. In the former case, retribution is meaningless because I don't see how one can hold a criminally insane individual to any meaningful moral standard. If said criminal is a pedophile/murderer with sub-70 IQ, he has likely little/no control over his actions and to express moral superiority through a firing squad is pretty heartless itself. The insane should be executed only if they cannot be cured.

I'm not sure we disagree as much as you think, though perhaps I was not as clear as I could be. My first point was to highlight that the OP was approaching the question from a purely punitive perspective, that the insane person had committed a crime, and should be punished for it regardless of the circumstances.

By contrast, I don't think that's what laws and punishment are for. Punishment in modern society exists to minimize the number of criminal acts, whether by preventing future criminals by example (as I suggested) or by simply removing the presence of criminals from social existence (as you suggested). My second point is that the first part of this goal (dissuading criminals) is largely unachievable by dealing with the insane through normal criminal justice procedures, and for the second (taking them off the streets) it is equally effective to confine them to a mental institution rather than subject them to imprisonment or execution.

 

[Macamus Prime]

I heard helping out mentally ill people does not work.

Also, that psychological treatment is all fake and a scam.

Sounds like the OP is onto something,... we are ALL being fooled. By the people who do indeed commit a crime as a result of insanity AND the professionals who are out to help them!!

That does it - kill all people claiming to be insane. It's the only way to get rid of them and ensure there are only sane people in society.

 

[sactoking]

It's too bad that prison is used as a deterrence and punishment and not for rehabilitation...

 

[Jeff7]

Most states have gone to a "guilty but insane" verdict. You don't walk but you might avoid a death penalty in capital cases.

That wording definitely makes more sense.


If you want to go with multiple personality disorder though, then maybe the "not guilty by reason of insanity" thing might work.


"We did not want to kills them, precious! They likes us!"
"Kill them. Kill the jury too."

 

[IceBergSLiM]

We had a mistrial on the murder case i was on because Most of the jurors I was stuck with didn't think the guy was capable of forming specific intent to kill his brother because he was high and in the midst of a PCP induced psychosis.

(Every juror did agree It was proven through physical evidence that he had put the gun to his brothers head at point blank and shot him twice and a third time from 1 meter or so away(a fourth shot missed)....execution style...if thats not specific intent I don't know what is)


Though there was no quantitative evidence he had PCP in his system the notion that he was is based on qualitative observation by psychologist, one of which also noted to rule out malingering, he probably was high out of his mind but I don't think being high/drunk whatever removes your ability to form specific intent specifically in the case of a precise execution style slaying.

 

[cKGunslinger]

isn't there a movie where a Russian, a spy or something, challenges the American justice system by killing someone on tape and walking away uncharged, deliberately using insanity...

That movie with the guy from 300 was.. similar to your description.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

I actually defended a man who was found not guilty by reason of mental illness in a murder case here in Minneapolis last year. I know it probably sounds strange, but this he is a great guy and there is no question in my mind he would never have committed any crime but for his mental illness.

 

[LiuKangBakinPie]

Policeman here killed 6 garage employees execution style. He wiped out the whole night shift of petrol attendances. They were sitting on their knees while he shot them one by one. He was found to be insane and got sent to a psychiatric hospital for the rest of his life. He did manage to make it look like a robbery and used his private pistol instead of his duty one.

 

[IceBergSLiM]

I actually defended a man who was found not guilty by reason of mental illness in a murder case here in Minneapolis last year. I know it probably sounds strange, but this he is a great guy and there is no question in my mind he would never have committed any crime but for his mental illness.

does that mean he goes to looney bin or back on the street to kill again?

 

[LiuKangBakinPie]

does that mean he goes to looney bin or back on the street to kill again?

his mentally ill to stand trail. doesnt mean his found not guilty. if he hit the streets again it means his fit to face the music and can get convicted

 

[LookBehindYou]

Have here been verdicts where the defendant was found " not guilty by reason of temporary insanity"? Or did I just see it in a movie or make it up?