Input on LCD Brands Plz!

[FinsterBaby]

All,

I have decided to purchase a LCD for my home PC and after extensive searching, I need some input/comments on the brands I am looking at. The ones I am leaning towards are:
- Viewsonic VE700
- NEC 1760V
- Hitachi CML175

The reason I am looking at these are price, video response (all 16ms) and what I have read online.

Please correct me if wrong but, from what I read the important things are video response (for playing games), contract ratio (for viewing dark areas) and Analog/DVI connections (seems like reviews [Toms Hardware] now say DVI s not that important).

Since information on LCD's seems fuzzy I turn to you to guide me. ALL input is welcomed!

THANKS in advance!
K

 

[Kingofcomputer]

remove Viewsonic from the list first.

 

[heliomphalodon]

I disagree vehemently with those who would claim that DVI is not important.

 

[Gosharkss]

Originally posted by: heliomphalodon
I disagree vehemently with those who would claim that DVI is not important.

And I disagree with those who claim that DVI is important.

The myth that DVI (digital) does not need to be converted to (analog) is just that, a myth. On a analog system, the Ramdac (chip that generates the video signal on the VC) has been integrated into the graphics controller chip for years now. Adding DVI means adding a DVI transmitter chip to the VC and a DVI receiver chip in the monitor.

In order to transmit the digital data from the VC in true digital, the graphics chip must have DVI outputs and the video cable would need to have a single wire for each bit. If this were true the cable would need to contain more than 27 wires. You can imagine how thick this cable would be. DVI converts the parallel data to a number of digital serial channels. Depending on the interface used (DVI-I or DVI-D) the number of serial channels varies. The serial bit steam is then converted back on the monitor side, and the signal must be sampled using the pixel clock just like it is in the analog interface.

Even monitors with a DVI interface convert to analog at the LCD driver level. The digital signal must be converted to an analog in order to achieve the 16M colors. If LCD was pure digital only eight colors, would be achievable. In order to generate the 16M colors each red, green and blue cell must be capable of stepping through 256 shades this is an analog function. In fact, most LCDs maintain the video signal in analog form through to the pixel drivers (NEC was the most notable producer of these).


The analog interface is taking a bad rap due to poorly designed video cards IMHO. In my studies it is virtually impossible to tell the difference between a properly designed analog interface and DVI.

I?m not arguing with those who notice a big difference however what they don?t realize is not all-analog video interfaces are the same. Many IMHO poorly designed video cards use RF filters on the analog video lines to reduce RF emissions. There are many ways to reduce RF emissions without these RF circuits hanging on the video lines. These circuits add capacitance to the video signals increasing the rise and fall time of the signal. These slower rise and fall times create soft edges especially on text or sharp black to white and white to black transitions. Thus the DVI connection will look better.

It is not the fact that you are using the analog interface it is the fact that the design of the analog interface that you have may be a poor one compared to others with much better designs.

 

[BoomAM]

Hi,
A couple of things.
The Hitachi TFT is called the CML174SXW, or CML174SXWB. not 175
Its an excellent monitor. I have one, i use it in games all the while, and there are none of the problems normally associated with TFTs with it.
DVI vs VGA. In truth, and has been proven, there is very very little difference between the image quality of the two. However, VGA does a few more colours than DVI i think, but this isnt noticeable, at all.

 

[heliomphalodon]

Thanks, "gosharkss", I think you made my point for me.

As things stand right now, a display is likely to look better when the DVI interface is used.
This means that DVI is important.

 

[Gosharkss]

Originally posted by: heliomphalodon
Thanks, "gosharkss", I think you made my point for me.

As things stand right now, a display is likely to look better when the DVI interface is used.
This means that DVI is important.

Only if you have a poor video card! If you have a good video card it makes no difference at least none that people can actually see.

 

[FinsterBaby]

All,

Thanks for all the feedback.

-Gosharkss, thanks for the info on DVI. I have concluded that the LCD I go with will have DVI.
-BoomAM, I was reading through older posts that you posted and that's what made me look into Hitachi. Good to see you are still happy with yours.

One thing I still can't figure, if video response is so important and 16ms is the best they make, why do some manufactures sell LCD's that have EXACTLY the same specs expect for the video response (one is 16ms and the other is 25ms) but the LCD with 25ms cost more than the one with 16ms?

Again, thanks for all your help!!!!

 

[Kingofcomputer]

The current 16ms LCD mon use taiwanese made panel, lower cost, so lower selling price, positioned as a entry to mid-end mon.
Some of the older 25ms or above LCD mon use japanese or korean made panel, higher cost, so higher selling price, positioned as mid to high-end mon.

 

[Gosharkss]

Originally posted by: Kingofcomputer
The current 16ms LCD mon use taiwanese made panel, lower cost, so lower selling price, positioned as a entry to mid-end mon.
Some of the older 25ms or above LCD mon use japanese or korean made panel, higher cost, so higher selling price, positioned as mid to high-end mon.

Where the panel is made has little bearing on the price, since most of the Japanese companies have LCD plants in Taiwan and China anyway. Also panel prices throughout the manufacturing sector are regulated closely by the panel manufactures. Rarely do they differ by more than a few dollars.

It really boils down to supply and demand and how much the manufacture paid for the panel on the day it was built. It also has to do with inventory. If a manufacture has inventory of the older panel bought at a higher price they are not very willing to take a loss.

 

[slpaulson]

Add NEC LCD1760NX to that list.
It's also based on the same panel as the other 16ms LCDs, but cheaper.

Planar also has one, but it has speakers built in.

Also with the hitachi you can't do a lot of adjustments if you're using DVI. With the two above you can.

 

[Ferocious]

I got a Dell LCD with my Dell system....and a 9700 Pro card.

For the first week or so I was using the analog connector....forgetting about the DVI connector that was NOT factory installed but which came in the box.

I went ahead and put the DVI connector on....and am using that now.

But honestly I noticed no difference between the two.

 

[Slickone]

I've read a few people mention they've experienced some blurring from motion in gaming even with 16ms LCD's. To be complete safe, should I wait until they get even faster? How long might that be? Or will they not?
Also excuse my ignorance, I've never compared an LCD beside a CRT while viewing a decent picture (stores always have some crap picture or video showing), but LCD's don't have as picture as crisp or colors as vibrant as a good CRT do they? Seems I've read this.

I recently happened to be wondering about video card RF filters myself and how the Nvidia cards suffered from poor filtering that was supposed to be corrected with the GF4. I asked about it here.

 

[ProviaFan]

Originally posted by: Gosharkss

Originally posted by: heliomphalodon
Thanks, "gosharkss", I think you made my point for me.

As things stand right now, a display is likely to look better when the DVI interface is used.
This means that DVI is important.

Only if you have a poor video card! If you have a good video card it makes no difference at least none that people can actually see.

Given that the majority of the people around here have nvidia-based video cards, I think we now can see the reason why DVI is pretty important to them.

If you're using a Matrox or built-by-ATI video card, I think what Gosharkss is saying is accurate.

 

[Slickone]

^
Any more feedback LCD and gaming?

 

[FinsterBaby]

All-

Thank you everyone for your input, it helped me in making the decission to go with an LCD monitor. I have choosen to go with the NEC Multisync LCD1760NX. The reasons I choose this monitor are:
-video response time of 16ms.
-Digital DVI connection
-NEC name, been using them at job (30,000+ Desktops) and have been happy with service and reliability.
-Price! Best bang for the buck (from what I can tell). Was looking to stay under $500 and did just that.

If anyone wants to know how the monitor works out feel free to write me.
THANKS!!!

 

[Banditbanger]

I have NEC 1760NX and it's excellent. Movies, games, office, Photoshop - you name it. No comparison with CRT (I had a Philips 19'' brilliance before NEC) whatsoever. Your eyes will thank you everytime you sit in front of the screen.

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

While we're on the subject, when can we expect 16ms panels >17"?

 

[Mr.IncrediblyBored]

Originally posted by: KnightBreed
While we're on the subject, when can we expect 16ms panels >17"?

Nobody knows?

 

[Schadenfroh]

the best looking lcds i have seen are Samsungs, dont know about reliability tho.

 

[BoomAM]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
the best looking lcds i have seen are Samsungs, dont know about reliability tho.

IMO, the best looking LCDs are the Hercules ones. Problem is, they have crap specs for a gaming TFT.

 

[warmonger]

Originally posted by: Banditbanger
I have NEC 1760NX and it's excellent. Movies, games, office, Photoshop - you name it. No comparison with CRT (I had a Philips 19'' brilliance before NEC) whatsoever. Your eyes will thank you everytime you sit in front of the screen.

That's funny. My eyes thank me every time I sit in front of my 22" Mitsu CRT running at 1600*1200 and 100hz. After getting used to that, 85hz is almost painful in comparison. Not to mention the overall color rendition is so much better than most flat-panels.

 

[Guspaz]

In Anandtech's own reviews, DVI has reduced various artifacts significantly.

I can say from personal experience that, if anything, a digital connection will reduce interference brought on by the cable; I have a Viewsonic A90 (CRT), and perhaps I just have a lot of interference here, but depending on the cable's position, I see lots of ghosting and such.