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Innocent man apparently executed

B

Bumrush99

Diamond Member
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This is why I'm against the death penalty. Granted some scumbags deserve to die, but if cases like this are proven the entire system should be suspended.

One innocent human life is a price too high to pay for "justice". It could happen to any one of us.

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Note - All posts from a thread in OT on this topic have been moved to this thread.

AnandTech Moderator
 
I agree we should use caution in cases like this, but when dealing with crimes where there is absolutely no doubt I believe the death penalty is approriate. Maybe we should just up the reasonable doubt standard? When dealing with cases like Tim McVeigh, or most of the serial class killers that standard is far surpassed.
 
Originally posted by: Uhtrinity
I agree we should use caution in cases like this, but when dealing with crimes where there is absolutely no doubt I believe the death penalty is approriate. Maybe we should just up the reasonable doubt standard? When dealing with cases like Tim McVeigh, or most of the serial class killers that standard is far surpassed.
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To some extent I agree with you. Perhaps only in cases that have solid DNA evidence and/or several non related witnesses. Police coercion seems to be very commom in cases like this. People directly involved in the commision of a crime that are offered deals to testify should not hold the key to someones life.
 
Originally posted by: Uhtrinity
I agree we should use caution in cases like this, but when dealing with crimes where there is absolutely no doubt I believe the death penalty is approriate. Maybe we should just up the reasonable doubt standard? When dealing with cases like Tim McVeigh, or most of the serial class killers that standard is far surpassed.
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This argument really seems like 'well, we still need to execute someone'.

I don't get it - why?
 
Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
Originally posted by: Uhtrinity
I agree we should use caution in cases like this, but when dealing with crimes where there is absolutely no doubt I believe the death penalty is approriate. Maybe we should just up the reasonable doubt standard? When dealing with cases like Tim McVeigh, or most of the serial class killers that standard is far surpassed.
Click to expand...

This argument really seems like 'well, we still need to execute someone'.

I don't get it - why?
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Maybe there is a part of me that wants some finality? I'm sure most of us would like to see Osama dead, everyone is cheering in the Zargawi thread? What about the people who go on serial rampages? IMO these people are never going to be reformed and have inflicted so much damage on humanity, they literaly deserve to be put to death. If my family or myself was affected directly I would even volunteer to pull the trigger myself.

Now this doesn't mean I believe in the death penalty for all cases, just in those where there is absolutely no doubt. Video, dna, multiple non related witness accounts, etc would meet my definition.

 
Originally posted by: Uhtrinity

Maybe there is a part of me that wants some finality? I'm sure most of us would like to see Osama dead, everyone is cheering in the Zargawi thread? What about the people who go on serial rampages? IMO these people are never going to be reformed and have inflicted so much damage on humanity, they literaly deserve to be put to death. If my family or myself was affected directly I would even volunteer to pull the trigger myself.

Now this doesn't mean I believe in the death penalty for all cases, just in those where there is absolutely no doubt. Video, dna, multiple non related witness accounts, etc would meet my definition.
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But we're fully capable of simply not letting people who can't be reformed back on the streets; it's hard to think that the death penalty accomplishes anything related to justice, given this.

I wouldn't mind seeing Osama dead either, but I recognize that this is not a feeling rooted in justice, but in revenge; I don't see any way to justify the state as having a right to extract revenge.
 
Originally posted by: Uhtrinity
I agree we should use caution in cases like this, but when dealing with crimes where there is absolutely no doubt I believe the death penalty is approriate. Maybe we should just up the reasonable doubt standard? When dealing with cases like Tim McVeigh, or most of the serial class killers that standard is far surpassed.
Click to expand...

Sir, if you are able to build a system that would be 100% infallable, I would indeed support the death penalty.

Edit: Do bear in mind that your very fallable system in place today already costs more money than just keeping them alive forever.
 
Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
Originally posted by: Uhtrinity

Maybe there is a part of me that wants some finality? I'm sure most of us would like to see Osama dead, everyone is cheering in the Zargawi thread? What about the people who go on serial rampages? IMO these people are never going to be reformed and have inflicted so much damage on humanity, they literaly deserve to be put to death. If my family or myself was affected directly I would even volunteer to pull the trigger myself.

Now this doesn't mean I believe in the death penalty for all cases, just in those where there is absolutely no doubt. Video, dna, multiple non related witness accounts, etc would meet my definition.
Click to expand...

But we're fully capable of simply not letting people who can't be reformed back on the streets; it's hard to think that the death penalty accomplishes anything related to justice, given this.

I wouldn't mind seeing Osama dead either, but I recognize that this is not a feeling rooted in justice, but in revenge; I don't see any way to justify the state as having a right to extract revenge.
Click to expand...

Would you rather have your tax dollars used to keep a man alive that is responsible for the deaths of thousands?

What has happen is tragic, but I have no problem with the death penatly.
 
Cantu was poor, a minority, and lived in a state that didn't give a poo about justice. Granted, it was that wrinkled bag (Ann Richards) that facilitated this travesty . . . not the death penalty loving buffoon that followed her. Richards was probably trying to bolster her "tough on crime" credentials at the time.
 
Sort of sounds like the case of the 1000's of INNOCENT Iraqi's that we have killed -

rose.gif
 
Originally posted by: Uhtrinity
Maybe there is a part of me that wants some finality? I'm sure most of us would like to see Osama dead, everyone is cheering in the Zargawi thread? What about the people who go on serial rampages? IMO these people are never going to be reformed and have inflicted so much damage on humanity, they literaly deserve to be put to death. If my family or myself was affected directly I would even volunteer to pull the trigger myself.
Click to expand...
It's always easy to argue from the margins. Defending the dealth penalty on the basis of absolutely UN-representative, no-doubt, extreme killers is not a valid argument for the death penalty. The vast majority of capital cases are not black and white. Preserving the option to apply the death penalty in extreme cases guarantees that it will be MIS-applied in many, many other cases.

The death penalty should be banned in the U.S.
 
I'll accept the death penalty when the justice system is 100% perfect, until then we are all humans and we make fusk ups, so there should always be an option for pardons
 
The death penalty is OK. It's the court system that has forgotten the "Beyond reasonable doubt" part that is broken. Tell the DA that if one of his is convicted and later reversed, he has to do the rest ot the penalty. That would go a long way toward fixing the system.
 
That's the only reason I'm against the death penalty. Rarely can we be 100% sure of guilt. If we could be, I'd have no problem with killing murderers.
 
Originally posted by: Kibbo86
Originally posted by: Uhtrinity
I agree we should use caution in cases like this, but when dealing with crimes where there is absolutely no doubt I believe the death penalty is approriate. Maybe we should just up the reasonable doubt standard? When dealing with cases like Tim McVeigh, or most of the serial class killers that standard is far surpassed.
Click to expand...

Sir, if you are able to build a system that would be 100% infallable, I would indeed support the death penalty.

Edit: Do bear in mind that your very fallable system in place today already costs more money than just keeping them alive forever.
Click to expand...

Giving someone the chair is more expensive than say, paying $70,000/yr to keep them imprisoned? for what? 40 years?

Id like to see your side of the argument that the death penalty doesnt dramatically reduce the cost of keeping the scum of the human race off the streets.
 
I've said for years that the death penalty must be abolished so long as the rich, famous, and powerful are exempt from it.

If that guy would have either been rich, famous, or powerful........he'd be alive today.

 
This was quite a while ago people. When this guy was executed DNA testing and other forensic methods were in their infancy. Each year as technology grows the chances of this type of thing happening decreases significantly. The courts failed in this case but what do you expect when witnesses and co-defendants outright LIE? This is Texas so don't hold your breath because the death penalty isn't going anywhere....we execute more people a year than any other state and I for one agree with the practice.
 
Originally posted by: Tab
Would you rather have your tax dollars used to keep a man alive that is responsible for the deaths of thousands?

What has happen is tragic, but I have no problem with the death penatly.
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1. Yes.
2. OBL is a special case.
3. Executions don't save money in a legal system with presumption of innocence and exhaustive appeals to examine due process.
 
I am young and British, and many would probably brand me a whiny, left-wing, liberal hippie. However, I consider the death penalty very important for a few reasons; Firstly, detterrents often work much better than rehabilitation. This is pretty much a given, and I consider it a "necessary evil." Secondly, rehabilitation is not only less effective, it is also much more costly, as a "pansy left-wing liberal" I would much rather that money be spent on national health care and education instead of criminals who may or may not commit crimes again once they're released.

However, the case of wether someone truely is guilty/innocent is always a problem. The death penalty should only ever be used in cases where there is undeniable proof, and it's beyond all reasonable doubt, that the person in question is guilty, and in the case of this news article it would truely be a shame if that young man was put to death for something he did not do.
 
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