Initial Llano laptops

[cebalrai]

I know HP has them. Gateway has two. Anyone else know where they can be found at this point? Specifically I'm looking for a 17" monitor on one... no luck thus far even though Llano seems perfect for such a thing...

 

[ShadowVVL]

I cant find any of them for sale. i would think dell and acer would have one.

 

[cebalrai]

I cant find any of them for sale. i would think dell and acer would have one.

hp.com and Gateway.com.

 

[hans007]

I cant find any of them for sale. i would think dell and acer would have one.

well acer owns gateway, so they sort of do.

 

[ShadowVVL]

well acer owns gateway, so they sort of do.

oh I didnt know that, I always thought Microsoft owned gateway.

hp.com and Gateway.com.

edit-ok i found it

 

[Arkaign]

If you're looking for a 17" laptop, Llano makes no sense imo.

Cpu performance is fairly bad, and against an Intel with a decent discrete CPU it's just annihilated (17" range is easy to get a good config for cheapish).

http://pcper.com/reviews/Processors/AMD-Llano-APU-Review/Performance

In short, the CPU portion is pretty bad, and the GPU portion is only good when compared to crap like HD4250 and Intel HD3000. A discrete GPU of any quality at all will rip it to shreds, and you also won't suffer with horrible performance in encoding/etc.

 

[Chiropteran]

Except a discrete GPU will give comparably terrible battery life, and cost a lot more.

 

[Arkaign]

Basically any notebook with a discrete GPU these days has switchable graphics. I have it on my DV7 17.3. The 5650 shuts off letting me use Intel HD if I want. Honestly the battery life is still pretty good even without switching to Intel. My cousin played SC2 on it for about 2 hours and I still had enough battery left to do some browsing afterwards. Shut it down with about 30% remaining.

and this one only set me back $630. 17.3" LED HD, 750GB HDD, Beats audio w/tri-reflex sub, blu-ray, aluminum casing, etc.

It's what bugs me about Llano, poor cpu performance, average gpu performance. It will get better, but the first ones really only deliver 'okay' performance in old games at low resolutions like 1280x800 or 1366x768. I can play dirt 3 at 1600x900 with no issues and it's smooth.

 

[GammaLaser]

Toshiba has them too:

http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/...oid=2000003217
http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/...oid=2000006044

 

[Arkaign]

Ughhh. That Toshiba is a great example of how bad it really is.

$779, A6-3400M, ffuuuuuuuuuu. This is not the A8 APU with the discrete GPU to help out and give a decent benchmark, it's the midrange/cheaper model with the worse integrated GPU. And at that price, what the hell.

For about 15% more $ :

http://www.excaliberpc.com/606802/as...-notebook.html

Which will eat that Toshiba w/LLano like it was going in reverse. Drastically better cpu, drastically better gpu, overall better features, and even battery life will be better (better battery) UNLESS you're trying to game while on battery. That's the only saving grace of llano at this point, you can play games at low res on battery for longer, but it will probably still be a stuttery mess a lot of the time with newer games.

 

[Rifter]

Ughhh. That Toshiba is a great example of how bad it really is.

$779, A6-3400M, ffuuuuuuuuuu. This is not the A8 APU with the discrete GPU to help out and give a decent benchmark, it's the midrange/cheaper model with the worse integrated GPU. And at that price, what the hell.

For about 15% more $ :

http://www.excaliberpc.com/606802/as...-notebook.html

Which will eat that Toshiba w/LLano like it was going in reverse. Drastically better cpu, drastically better gpu, overall better features, and even battery life will be better (better battery) UNLESS you're trying to game while on battery. That's the only saving grace of llano at this point, you can play games at low res on battery for longer, but it will probably still be a stuttery mess a lot of the time with newer games.

I completly agree, Llano needs to stick to the sub 600$ price range to compete, as in low end Llano being 400-500 and top end going for $600. Cause for 700$ you can get a SB notebook that destroys it in performance.

 

[Arkaign]

I completly agree, Llano needs to stick to the sub 600$ price range to compete, as in low end Llano being 400-500 and top end going for $600. Cause for 700$ you can get a SB notebook that destroys it in performance.

True, and the very respectable HD video performance makes it a compelling choice for little set-top media center type devices. This I think will be the ideal path for llano at present, and cheap notebooks where it will kick the butt of i3/intel hd notebooks that don't have discrete graphics at all.

Gamers though, look elsewhere. Llano is overhyped in this regard. At prices nearing $800, a 17" llano notebook is like a Corvette rocking a 2.0 i4 motor.

 

[AnandThenMan]

If you're looking for a 17" laptop, Llano makes no sense imo.

Cpu performance is fairly bad, and against an Intel with a decent discrete CPU it's just annihilated (17" range is easy to get a good config for cheapish).

http://pcper.com/reviews/Processors/AMD-Llano-APU-Review/Performance

That review gives Llano the PCPer gold award. FYI.

 

[Arkaign]

That review gives Llano the PCPer gold award. FYI.

True, but if you read the conclusion page it pretty much says its garbage.

"Llano is not AMD’s solution to its processor performance woes. The quad-core A8-3500M processor in the testbed system received benchmark scores 2 to 3 times lower than those of second-gen Intel Core i7-QM processors, and also failed to best Intel’s Core i5. "

"Even with dual graphics disabled, the APU was capable of out-performing Intel’s current HD 3000 IGP by a significant margin." <--- the only good point, along with power for HTPC use.

"It should be noted, of course, that the testbed was endowed with the quickest graphics part available on an A-series APU, which skews the results. However, those laptops shipping with less powerful APUs will be targeting price points below $600."

Basically, even the top end Llano setup still gets handily defeated by an i5 or i7 with a discrete GPU.

Given that the combo can be had for $800ish, and we're talking something with 1GB of it's own dedicated memory, it renders llano useless at prices over $600. My $630 DV7 even is a better performer.

 

[AnandThenMan]

Selective quoting FTL. I would encourage people to read the entire review themselves, and then decide.

 

[AnandThenMan]

True, but if you read the conclusion page it pretty much says its garbage.

And on this point. So you are saying that the review says the product is garbage, but then gives it a gold award? Are you sure you're not just trolling? :\

 

[Chiropteran]

When has a hot new product not been overpriced compared to the deals you can get a few months later? Comparing entry full retail price llano laptops to the best deals you can find on older laptops isn't completely fair. Just give them a few weeks and prices will drop to a competitive level.

It's like the Chromebooks. Price is stupid right now because they are new, it's the cost of being an early adopter

 

[Arkaign]

Selective quoting FTL. I would encourage people to read the entire review themselves, and then decide.

Yes people should indeed read the review. It uses the top Llano APU, and it comes up short unless you compare it to i5/i7 with Intel HD integrated video, which everyone knows sucks.

So you get a mediocre to poor cpu with a less terrible integrated GPU. Yay.

$ for $, you get much more for your money by getting an i5 or i7 with discrete GPU. Is there any other logical conclusion?

It only makes sense when comparing against cheap notebooks that don't have discrete graphics, or for HTPC, where I think it's best suited as it stands.

Honestly I think the reviewers tacked on that award just to temper the beating they gave the Llano during testing, and because it's indeed about twice as fast as the terrible HD3000. Being twice as good as crap is still crap though.

 

[AnandThenMan]

Honestly I think the reviewers tacked on that award just to temper the beating they gave the Llano during testing, and because it's indeed about twice as fast as the terrible HD3000. Being twice as good as crap is still crap though.

Ridiculous. :thumbsdown:

 

[Vesku]

HP has an A8-3500M and Radeon 6750M equipped notebook in the ~$680-700 range. Not bad for initial launch. Not 17 inch screen but has most other notebooks beat in the graphics department for the price. Anyone able to find a Sandybridge notebook with 6750m or GT 550 or similar in that price range?

Should be some good price competition for back to school sales.

 

[Inspire]

Selective quoting FTL. I would encourage people to read the entire review themselves, and then decide.

I'd like to get a Llano laptop, but I won't overpay for one. If I can get a SB laptop with a good discrete card in it for $100 more, guess which one I would buy...

Its all a question of performance and price.

 

[Arkaign]

HP has an A8-3500M and Radeon 6750M equipped notebook in the ~$680-700 range. Not bad for initial launch. Not 17 inch screen but has most other notebooks beat in the graphics department for the price. Anyone able to find a Sandybridge notebook with 6750m or GT 550 or similar in that price range?

Should be some good price competition for back to school sales.

See, now that's a deal. The Llano combined with a real discrete card like a 6750 would indeed be a compelling choice.

 

[AnandThenMan]

So you get a mediocre to poor cpu with a less terrible integrated GPU. Yay.

See, now that's a deal. The Llano combined with a real discrete card like a 6750 would indeed be a compelling choice.

But you just finished saying the CPU portion is poor or a bit better? How is faster graphics going to help? BTW, the graphics are actually really good, see the [H] review (also received a gold award).

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Yes people should indeed read the review. It uses the top Llano APU, and it comes up short unless you compare it to i5/i7 with Intel HD integrated video, which everyone knows sucks.

So you get a mediocre to poor cpu with a less terrible integrated GPU. Yay.

$ for $, you get much more for your money by getting an i5 or i7 with discrete GPU. Is there any other logical conclusion?

It only makes sense when comparing against cheap notebooks that don't have discrete graphics, or for HTPC, where I think it's best suited as it stands.

Honestly I think the reviewers tacked on that award just to temper the beating they gave the Llano during testing, and because it's indeed about twice as fast as the terrible HD3000. Being twice as good as crap is still crap though.

I've been reading this thread for a while and you're quite obviously biased.

None of the reviews use the top-end Llano APU. They use the A8-3500M, the lowest end of the A8 series. The A8-3530MX is clocked 400MHz higher and should be around 15% faster than the 3500M.

This doesn't compete with the i7, no matter what AMD would lead you to believe with their marketing BS. Based on what we know, laptops with the top-end A6-3410MX and low-end A8-3500M should land at $600. Laptops with the A6 + dedicated GPU will come in at $700, as will laptops with the A8-3530MX and no dGPU.

The CPU portion is not mediocre as all the reviews would make you believe. Based on laptop pricing, the A8-3500M and A6-3410MX compete with the Core i3 2310M, not the Core i5 2520M as the reviews lead you to believe. Therefore, the CPU disparity is not that big. The A8-3500M should "only" be 10-15% slower than the 2310M in multi-threaded apps, while the A8-3530MX should "only" be 15-20% slower.

This brings me to the GPU, which is something you seem to undermine. Intel HD 3000 is not slow for a laptop. It's around the same speed as a GeForce GT 320M, and the Radeon HD 6620G is around 2x the speed of that. What this means is that you'll be able to game at 1280x720 at Medium settings with AA in most games, which certainly isn't bad.

With an i5 or i7 with discrete GPU you can't get something better for your money, because that's out of the price range. It's not exactly fair to be comparing a $600 or $700 laptop to a $900-1000 one, not to mention you have to get one that has a bigger chassis to accommodate the dedicated GPU.

 

[AnandThenMan]

This brings me to the GPU, which is something you seem to undermine. Intel HD 3000 is not slow for a laptop. It's around the same speed as a GeForce GT 320M, and the Radeon HD 6620G is around 2x the speed of that. What this means is that you'll be able to game at 1280x720 at Medium settings with AA in most games, which certainly isn't bad.

In DX11 optimized games, it does even better. DiRT 3 can run at 8X MSAA at 1366x768, which is native rez. This is very impressive.