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Inherited a CPU, need building advice

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brblx

brblx

Diamond Member
Mar 23, 2009
5,499
2
0
that looks really good. as for ram, just buy something well-reviewed that fits your speed requirements. mushkin, gskill, kingston, ocz, and others have a lot of choices that would all work. i'd probably try and find solid 1.8v ram to run 4x2gb, ddr2 800 would be fine with your unlocked cpu, but i'd go with 1066 if you want to have more fsb to play with (up to 533mhz, as opposed to 333mhz stock).

you shouldn't worry about the psu, most the bad reviews on newegg seem pretty lame, other than a couple of DOA's. both it and the signature are made by the same OEM, though (it's delta), and have shown themselves to be well-constructed. and it won't break a sweat with the components you're using.
 
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czarnybaran5150

Member
Jul 16, 2009
50
0
61
Originally posted by: brblx
that looks really good. as for ram, just buy something well-reviewed that fits your speed requirements. mushkin, gskill, kingston, ocz, and others have a lot of choices that would all work. i'd probably try and find solid 1.8v ram to run 4x2gb, ddr2 800 would be fine with your unlocked cpu, but i'd go with 1066 if you want to have more fsb to play with (up to 533mhz, as opposed to 333mhz stock).

you shouldn't worry about the psu, most the bad reviews on newegg seem pretty lame, other than a couple of DOA's. both it and the signature are made by the same OEM, though (it's delta), and have shown themselves to be well-constructed. and it won't break a sweat with the components you're using.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the vote of confidence, I really appreciate your insight into all of this.

With all of the different types of RAM I'm just totally clueless. I would like to get the best stuff for this particular set up, but I don't know what "the best" is.

Could please link me a couple ideas? I'd really appreciate it.
 
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elconejito

Senior member
Dec 19, 2007
607
0
76
www.harvsworld.com
The one brblx linked to is the one I'm running. 8GB, currently at 900Mhz (450FSB). I have no complaints, and in general I'm a fan of G.Skill.

Having said that, there are *tons* of options. I'd go for 1066 speed RAM so you don't have to worry about maxing it out if you increase the FSB too far. The above mentioned manufacturers are all solid. Look for the lowest timings and voltages at 1066 at a price you're comfortable paying.

For the hard drive the WD 1TB Black is very solid choice. The 640GB Black is just a little smaller, a just a little slower, but about $30 cheaper.

If you aren't feeling really comfortable with the CP850, then don't go for it. The Signature is a REALLY REALLY nice PSU, it's just way more than you need. There are several other choices around $100-150 including Corsair, Antec, PC Power & Cooling giving 650-800w of power that are also very high quality. Having said that... There is no price on your peace of mind :)
 
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czarnybaran5150

Member
Jul 16, 2009
50
0
61
Elconejito,

Thanks for the input. I?m willing to budget $200 for some good RAM. If that were your budget what would you get? (I apologize for asking but 1.) I?m a work so I can?t surf around and look (I?m not trying to be lazy here), and 2.) you know way more about this than I do and I value your recommendations)

Brblx, that you for your suggestion as well!
 
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elconejito

Senior member
Dec 19, 2007
607
0
76
www.harvsworld.com
No problem, I just did a quick search and here's what I got. Note, I'm not an expert, by any means. And like I said before there are tons of good options.

In addition to the one that Brblx posted (which I have and like), here are some other options by price. I think you'll be hard pressed to spend $200 on DDR2 RAM.

-OCZ Reaper 4GB (OCZ2RPR10664GK) ~$70 - I've used this in another build (for a friend's work comp) and liked it.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820227289

-G.Skill PI 4GB (F2-8800CL5D-4GBPI) ~$65 - low voltage (1.8-1.9V, rated for 1100mhz)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820231194

-Mushkin 4GB (996599) ~$62
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820146785

-Kingston HyperX T1 (KHX8500D2T1K2/4G) ~$60
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820104098
 
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czarnybaran5150

Member
Jul 16, 2009
50
0
61
Thanks for the recommendations and thanks for putting up with me;)

I guess ideally what I'm looking for is RAM that will be good out of the gate without necessarily overclocking. I will overclock, but I don't want to have to push my RAM immediately just to make computer work well.

So the performance increase from DDR2 to DDR3 isn't worth the extra money then?
 
zerogear

zerogear

Diamond Member
Jun 4, 2000
5,611
9
81
With your LGA775 board, DDR3 wouldn't work either way. But performance is close, so it isn't worth it unless you're talking about the higher end DDR3s, which last time I saw, were still hovering around 180-250$.

RAM, I recommend G.Skill, Mushkin, and Corsair. Generally I look at warranty more than anything else when going for RAM modules
 
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elconejito

Senior member
Dec 19, 2007
607
0
76
www.harvsworld.com
Originally posted by: czarnybaran5150
Thanks for the recommendations and thanks for putting up with me;)

I guess ideally what I'm looking for is RAM that will be good out of the gate without necessarily overclocking. I will overclock, but I don't want to have to push my RAM immediately just to make computer work well.

So the performance increase from DDR2 to DDR3 isn't worth the extra money then?
Click to expand...

Ahhhh, i see. Any of them will work. More than likely, they will default to 1066 speeds. If not, you just go in and change the memory divider in the BIOS to set it manually to 1066. No overclocking involved.

The 1066Mhz speeds will come in handy when you eventually overclock and you will have greater flexibility in what you can set your FSB to. As an example, if you run your memory 1:1, then you can push your FSB all the way to 533Mhz (from 333mhz!) and the RAM will be fine.

DDR3 for the most part is at most *marginally* faster than DDR2. Most of the time the difference is negligible. Unless you get crazy expensive very high speed DDR3 RAM then you might see a few percentage points.

Two articles, one from anand and the other from xbit labs both conclude that at the same Mhz there is very little difference. [Note: both articles are from 2007 when DDR3 launched. Speeds topped out at about 1333mhz].

Then go check this article from Anand in June of this year "Memory Scaling on Core i7 - Is DDR3-1066 Really the Best Choice?". Up to 40% better in synthetic benchmarks, but it didn't translate into realworld applications.

To quote from the article "Once again, as we moved to real-world applications, those impressive synthetic benchmark improvements did not translate into results that would justify spending three times as much for a memory kit for most people. We had mixed with certain applications like WinRAR producing a 20% improvement from DDR3-1066 C7 to DDR3-1866 C7 while several applications showed minor performance improvements under 2%. If your primary job is to compress and archive files for a living, then the expenditure for fast low latency memory is justifiable."

If you were building an i7 platform, then yes DDR3 all the way baby. Or an AMD AM3 socket build. Otherwise, nice fast DDR2 is the way to go. Get it while it's still cheap. The price has nowhere to go but up from here.
 
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czarnybaran5150

Member
Jul 16, 2009
50
0
61
Again, thank you for all of the great info and links to articles. Very very helpful stuff.

So, I think this might be it. The only problem I have now is that the video card I want is estimated to be availble on 7/21 and the sale stuff I'm getting ends on 7/20.

So should I just place 2 seperate orders (because I do like the video card, I plan on crossfiring eventually, plus is has 2 fans on it), or should I get different video card?

The whole system now is just a little over $1,000.

Budget Computer Build

MOTHERBOARD
GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3P LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813128358
$134.99
$114.99 after rebate

HEATSINK + FANS

Prolimatech Megahalems + Noctua NF S12B FLX Fan

http://www.heatsinkfactory.com...halems-cpu-cooler.html

$83.98

CASE & POWER SUPPLY

Antec Signature CP-850

Antec P183

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...?ItemList=Combo.208555

$225.45



RAM: 8 Gigs

(2) G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1100 (PC2 8800) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-8800CL5D-4GBPI - Retail

$64.99 x 2 = $129.98


VIDEO CARD:

ASUS ATI Radeon 4890

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814121308

$190.00 after rebate

WINDOWS VISTA HOME PREMIUM 64

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16832116677

$109.99


DVD DRIVE

Sony DVD CD Burner

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16827118030

$32.00

HARD DRIVE
Western Digital Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drives - OEM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16822136284

$99.00


 
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czarnybaran5150

Member
Jul 16, 2009
50
0
61
elconejito, so I ran by your DDR memory analysis by a friend of mine and here's what he said (he's also the same perons who suggested the aformentioned parts above).

"Well, X48 overclocks somewhat better than a p45. DDR3 way back when it first came out wasnt worth it over ddr2, as it had high latencies. But now, you can get 1600mhz ddr3 for relatively cheap, at good latencies. Plus, if you ever go crossfire...X48 is electrically x16/x16, while P45 is electrically x8/x8 (not as relavent now as it will be with the 5xxx radeons though, and also it can bottleneck it if your running at anything higher than 1280x1024).

Your thoughts on this?
 
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elconejito

Senior member
Dec 19, 2007
607
0
76
www.harvsworld.com
Originally posted by: czarnybaran5150
elconejito, so I ran by your DDR memory analysis by a friend of mine and here's what he said (he's also the same perons who suggested the aformentioned parts above).

"Well, X48 overclocks somewhat better than a p45. DDR3 way back when it first came out wasnt worth it over ddr2, as it had high latencies. But now, you can get 1600mhz ddr3 for relatively cheap, at good latencies. Plus, if you ever go crossfire...X48 is electrically x16/x16, while P45 is electrically x8/x8 (not as relavent now as it will be with the 5xxx radeons though, and also it can bottleneck it if your running at anything higher than 1280x1024).

Your thoughts on this?
Click to expand...
Well, just to be clear... it isn't "my" analysis, I'm just a guy on a forum :)

Having said that, if you look at the article from Anand (the last one i linked) they are comparing DDR3 from 1066 all the way up to 1866 (which is past the 1600 your friend is recommending). In synthetic benchmarks, just measuring bandwidth (reads/writes/copies) there are HUGE gains. But most of the application benchmarks show small performance gains and some apps show zero improvement. That quote I had above is from the author of the article.

I'm not trying to hate on DDR3. It's just for a socket 775 chip I don't see much benefit to it. Your original RAM choice was $260. Versus $130 for DDR2. That's double the cost (not including different motherboard) for a few percent improvement.

If you were getting an i7 or PhenomII, then definitely get DDR3 and don't look back.

See the benchmarks for yourself, and look around at other sites to see what the difference is between the two memory types. As the saying goes "Who you gonna believe? Me or your own eyes?"

As for the other stuff, X48 is supposed to overclock better in general than P45. But the UD3P/UD3R stands toe-to-toe, and bests many X48 boards. It's very easy to get mid to high 400s with a Quad, 500+ if you're lucky. And mid to high 500s with a dual. There are a few people on the intranetwebs running 600+ with exotic cooling. I don't know about you, but I think getting that kind of performance from a $130 mobo is pretty good.

I will say if you go crossfire you'll get better performance from an X48. Can't argue with that unless you say maybe 8x8 on a P45 is "good enough". I've always been a single GPU kind of guy (I game very little), so personally I wouldn't notice the difference. Someone else can probably weigh in on that topic.

My $0.02 is if you really want to spend the cash (potentially a couple hundred), I'd use the difference to pickup an SSD, or go ahead and get the 2nd card in crossfire already and enjoy that from day 1.
 
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czarnybaran5150

Member
Jul 16, 2009
50
0
61
[/quote]
Well, just to be clear... it isn't "my" analysis, I'm just a guy on a forum :)

Your feedback through all of this has been invaluable. I appreciate the detailed responses from you, and everyone else.:thumbsup:

As for the other stuff, X48 is supposed to overclock better in general than P45. But the UD3P/UD3R stands toe-to-toe, and bests many X48 boards. It's very easy to get mid to high 400s with a Quad, 500+ if you're lucky. And mid to high 500s with a dual. There are a few people on the intranetwebs running 600+ with exotic cooling. I don't know about you, but I think getting that kind of performance from a $130 mobo is pretty good.

I will say if you go crossfire you'll get better performance from an X48. Can't argue with that unless you say maybe 8x8 on a P45 is "good enough". I've always been a single GPU kind of guy (I game very little), so personally I wouldn't notice the difference. Someone else can probably weigh in on that topic.

This is where I'm a little torn. I intend on crossfiring in the future. So if I spend the extra $75 on the mobo, and it means I can take full advantage of x16 crossfiring in a year or so when the second GPU comes down in price, then I would like to do that, especially if I'm already spending $1,000 or so bucks.

So with that said, here's an X48 Gigabyte card which seems to also come with a 750 gig hardrive.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813128332

OR in the alternative, should I get a nicer video card than the one I'm getting and stick with the UD3P?

I had been thinking about an SSD, but (again) had no clue what to pick.

Sorry for all of the questions.
 
brblx

brblx

Diamond Member
Mar 23, 2009
5,499
2
0
the hdd is a 5400rpm, i believe, i wouldn't use that as your boot drive. with the price of the 1tb wd black or samsung f1, i'd rather go with the foxconn board. ddr3 will get cheaper, but you're going to max that board with 4x2gb. the difference between ddr2 and ddr3 is maybe 50 bucks, so you might as well go that route if you truly want to. it's $50 for the slim chance of a performance increase. considering i've seen people spend $50 for absolutely nothing, it's not that bad. :p

but personally i'd pick the gigabyte p45 just because it's a more proven platform and as stated the performance increase in gaming is minimal to null. neither is really going to help from 'upgradibility' standpoint, at this time you should just assume that if you can get 2 years out of a rig you'll need a new mobo when you upgrade. the level of performance you'll be getting is pretty of EOL for LGA775.
 
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nsafreak

Diamond Member
Oct 16, 2001
7,093
3
81
Originally posted by: czarnybaran5150

Well, just to be clear... it isn't "my" analysis, I'm just a guy on a forum :)

Your feedback through all of this has been invaluable. I appreciate the detailed responses from you, and everyone else.:thumbsup:

As for the other stuff, X48 is supposed to overclock better in general than P45. But the UD3P/UD3R stands toe-to-toe, and bests many X48 boards. It's very easy to get mid to high 400s with a Quad, 500+ if you're lucky. And mid to high 500s with a dual. There are a few people on the intranetwebs running 600+ with exotic cooling. I don't know about you, but I think getting that kind of performance from a $130 mobo is pretty good.

I will say if you go crossfire you'll get better performance from an X48. Can't argue with that unless you say maybe 8x8 on a P45 is "good enough". I've always been a single GPU kind of guy (I game very little), so personally I wouldn't notice the difference. Someone else can probably weigh in on that topic.

This is where I'm a little torn. I intend on crossfiring in the future. So if I spend the extra $75 on the mobo, and it means I can take full advantage of x16 crossfiring in a year or so when the second GPU comes down in price, then I would like to do that, especially if I'm already spending $1,000 or so bucks.

So with that said, here's an X48 Gigabyte card which seems to also come with a 750 gig hardrive.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813128332

OR in the alternative, should I get a nicer video card than the one I'm getting and stick with the UD3P?

I had been thinking about an SSD, but (again) had no clue what to pick.

Sorry for all of the questions.
Click to expand...

If you're going to wait as much as a year before adding another card to a Crossfire setup then it isn't going to be worth it. By the time you add the second card there will be a single card solution that either outperforms or equals your dual card setup. If you intend to go with a Crossfire setup then the absolute most time I would wait to get the card would be about 1-2 months. I should also note that for the most part you won't see an improvement in performance unless you're gaming at a very high resolution with Crossfire if you're using something like a 4890.

For the most part I agree with what elconejito posted as well.

 
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czarnybaran5150

Member
Jul 16, 2009
50
0
61
but personally i'd pick the gigabyte p45 just because it's a more proven platform and as stated the performance increase in gaming is minimal to null. neither is really going to help from 'upgradibility' standpoint, at this time you should just assume that if you can get 2 years out of a rig you'll need a new mobo when you upgrade. the level of performance you'll be getting is pretty of EOL for LGA775.
Click to expand...


Brblx, I can't argue with this logic at all. I'll just stick with your original recommendation. Thanks!

[/quote]If you're going to wait as much as a year before adding another card to a Crossfire setup then it isn't going to be worth it. By the time you add the second card there will be a single card solution that either outperforms or equals your dual card setup. If you intend to go with a Crossfire setup then the absolute most time I would wait to get the card would be about 1-2 months. I should also note that for the most part you won't see an improvement in performance unless you're gaming at a very high resolution with Crossfire if you're using something like a 4890.

For the most part I agree with what elconejito posted as well[/quote]

Nsafreak, thanks for the response. A 4890 is exactly what I was going to buy. But if I decide to not crossfire in the future, should I get a better card? Ca you recommend one? Or have I topped out in the "bang for your buck" category with the ATI Radeon 4890?
 
BTRY B 529th FA BN

BTRY B 529th FA BN

Lifer
Nov 26, 2005
15,194
403
126
Overclocking with 4x2gb sticks will stress any board no matter what. You will hit a NB wall or RAM wall before you find your CPU limit/wall.

EDIT: O and 2ms response, 50000:1 contrast, 1080p HD, HDMI, same price no-brainer. + free shipping

EDIT 2: Another Great LCD but in funky orange. 99% same specs cept it can display 1900x1200 instead of 1900x1080. And it's brightness is 400 cd/m2 compared to 300 cd/m2 ...what ever that means.

Personally, i'd stick with the LG in my first edit :)
 
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nsafreak

Diamond Member
Oct 16, 2001
7,093
3
81
For a single card solution currently your best bang for the buck is a GTX 285. If you really want to go with a dual card setup though what I would recommend getting now would be a pair of GTX 275s. They can be found fairly regularly at a good price and a pair actually do make a good bang for the buck performer without costing too terribly much.
 
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czarnybaran5150

Member
Jul 16, 2009
50
0
61
Originally posted by: nsafreak
For a single card solution currently your best bang for the buck is a GTX 285. If you really want to go with a dual card setup though what I would recommend getting now would be a pair of GTX 275s. They can be found fairly regularly at a good price and a pair actually do make a good bang for the buck performer without costing too terribly much.
Click to expand...

Nsafreak, thanks for the response. First, if I decide to go with my current board (gigabyte ud3p) isn't a dual setup pointless since the board cannot take full advantage of a x16 dual card setup?

If I did go for the one card setup would you go with the GTX 285 over the Radeon 4890? If so, could you please recommend one (with a link) from newegg? Plus, wouldn't it be better to use one good card over two mediocre cards? (less heat, less clutter?)

Thanks!
 
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