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Info on redundant PSU's please

C

computer

Platinum Member
Hi group. I'm not familiar with redundant PSU's and a customer asked me about one for their PC. These require a special case, correct? Or can a typical ATX case and PSU be hooked up some way to a redundant PSU?
Thanks.
 
Originally posted by: computer
Hi group. I'm not familiar with redundant PSU's and a customer asked me about one for their PC. These require a special case, correct? Or can a typical ATX case and PSU be hooked up some way to a redundant PSU?
Thanks.
Click to expand...

Are you referring to making two PSUs redundant, or the redundant style PSUs? There are both. I have used dual PSus in a system, although they weren't redundant. One PSU power the mobo & video card, and the other PSU powered all the fans, lights, and hard drives.
 
Hello, no he's not talking dual (which I also use), but real redundant. Is it possible to make two typical ATX PS's true redundant? Seems like someone would make some kind of an adapter kit where this could be done.

I just found this and it looks like a regular ATX, of course the image could be totally generic. http://www.ocmicrosupply.com/product_info.php?products_id=12

I also saw one called an "Add-on" redundant (no image and no info) and if the name is an accurate description sounds like it could be added on to an existing PC.
 
I would consider posting over the forums at jonnyguru.com. They have a lot of people over there that know a lot about PSUs. I remember seeing a lot of redundant PSUs, but I can't find them right now. I'll keep digging and see if I can't find anything. I remember finding them when my Enermax FS2300BB case had non-ATX PSU mounts, and I was trying to find a PSU for it....
 
Originally posted by: Fullmetal Chocobo
I would consider posting over the forums at jonnyguru.com. They have a lot of people over there that know a lot about PSUs. I remember seeing a lot of redundant PSUs, but I can't find them right now. I'll keep digging and see if I can't find anything. I remember finding them when my Enermax FS2300BB case had non-ATX PSU mounts, and I was trying to find a PSU for it....
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Ok thanks FMC. 😉

 
Originally posted by: Old Hippie
Are you talking running dual PSs? If so, they make an adaptor cable.
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Although that is a very handy adapter, no, please read again:
Hello, no he's not talking dual (which I also use), but real redundant. Is it possible to make two typical ATX PS's true redundant? Seems like someone would make some kind of an adapter kit where this could be done.

Unless, if that adapter cable will allow one PSU to die and the other to continue working. Will it?

 
Naa, now that I look at it, it won't because the 2nd PSU's periph connectors would have to be hooked up to the same devices.
 
Naa, now that I look at it, it won't because the 2nd PSU's periph connectors would have to be hooked up to the same devices.
Click to expand...
Now you've got me wondering. I see what you're saying, but then, what good is it?
 
Originally posted by: Old Hippie
Naa, now that I look at it, it won't because the 2nd PSU's periph connectors would have to be hooked up to the same devices.
Click to expand...
Now you've got me wondering. I see what you're saying, but then, what good is it?
Click to expand...

That cable is for running dual PSUs. The green cable that goes to the second 24 pin connector allows both power supplies to be turned on by a single switch (ie the normal power button). Without that cable, you have to mod a second switch to turn on the secondary PSU.
 
Originally posted by: Old Hippie
Naa, now that I look at it, it won't because the 2nd PSU's periph connectors would have to be hooked up to the same devices.
Click to expand...
Now you've got me wondering. I see what you're saying, but then, what good is it?
Click to expand...
(What Fullmetal said 😉 ) But if you're talking about a redundant PSU and not the adapter; the customer wants a PSU to kick it automatically if one fails. There's got to be a way to do this with some kind of an adapter.

 
Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it. The money spent on a good PSU is worth it, and spending twice that "just in case" is a bit much. Are they going for supreme up-time? Or are they just being anal (trust me--nothing wrong with that in the tech world). What are their intentions for this, and what kind of machine are they building?
 
Redundant PSU's are going to require some kind of mounting adapter. I know that some of the higher end lian-li cases will sell an optional plate to fit redundant instead of ATX PSU's. Look into the brand Zippy some high quality redundant;s. Also might want to check out 2cpu.com forums for some redundant PSU info, since most people using redundant PSU's have a 2/4 way server.

1 Warning, redundant PSU's are LOUD. Typically they have like 1-2 40mm fans at like 10-15K RPM's or something ridiculous, because they are really only used to power servers, for any kind of personal computer, buying a regular PSU from a good brand, and getting a good UPS is a much better idea.

 
Originally posted by: computer
(What Fullmetal said 😉 ) But if you're talking about a redundant PSU and not the adapter; the customer wants a PSU to kick it automatically if one fails. There's got to be a way to do this with some kind of an adapter.
Click to expand...

There is. It's loud and pricey though. We have them in Supermicro machines. They are backplane mounted - three power supplies - triple redundant such as the Super Micro PWS-0016.

You can actually pull out a power supply and swap it while the machine is running. It's designed with availability in mind, not noise or cost. 😉
 
Originally posted by: Fullmetal Chocobo
Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it. The money spent on a good PSU is worth it, and spending twice that "just in case" is a bit much. Are they going for supreme up-time? Or are they just being anal (trust me--nothing wrong with that in the tech world). What are their intentions for this, and what kind of machine are they building?
Click to expand...
Well I have to "worry about it" if the customer is asking for it. 😉 I assume he wants the PC for some kind of a "mission critical" app, like maybe a web server, don't know.

 
Thanks for the replies guys. I'm still wondering if it's possible to use two typical ATX PSU's with some kind of an "adapter".
 
Originally posted by: computer
Thanks for the replies guys. I'm still wondering if it's possible to use two typical ATX PSU's with some kind of an "adapter".
Click to expand...

You can use two ATX PSU's, but it will not be redundant, it will just be a split load.

An adapter would not work since it would have to be active. A passive one would experience some big problems if there is say 12.2 V coming from one PSU and 11.9V from the other. You would end up sending current from the higher voltage PSU to the lower one, and possibly blow one of them depending on the protection circuits.
 
Originally posted by: krotchy
You can use two ATX PSU's, but it will not be redundant, it will just be a split load.
Click to expand...
:disgust: Thanks.

An adapter would not work since it would have to be active. A passive one would experience some big problems if there is say 12.2 V coming from one PSU and 11.9V from the other. You would end up sending current from the higher voltage PSU to the lower one, and possibly blow one of them depending on the protection circuits.
Click to expand...
There are no "active" adapters?


 
Originally posted by: computer
There are no "active" adapters?
Click to expand...

Let me clarify active adapter. An active adapter would require some form of circuitry, several high power rated mosfets and sensing circuitry to ensure a continuous load. Also you would likely need to decouple every single combined pin and rail to prevent out of phase ripples and whatnot.

This could be designed and built by hand, but I suspect it would be fairly large and fairly expensive and not exactly the easiest thing to place inside a case if done this way. I have never seen an aftermarket solution for this.

Also pretty much it seems like you would need a separate circuit to combine every single rail in the PSU.
 
Search eBay/Froogle for 00068DKR Dell PSU paralleling board. There are few cases designed for dual PSUs up front - the original Stacker (STC-T01) is one. Codegen S100 was another. A number of cases have mounts for the compact redundant PSUs but you can fit the price of the Stacker case and two normal PSUs into the price of most of those.

.bh.
 
These look like they would work. I'm not clear on the dimensions though. It can't be only 3.3" high for the entire unit, that must be 3.3" high EACH? If not, then that would fit in a regular ATX case since the overall dimensions are about the same, it's a bit longer which shouldn't be a problem.
 
Originally posted by: krotchy
Originally posted by: computer
There are no "active" adapters?
Click to expand...

Let me clarify active adapter. An active adapter would require some form of circuitry, several high power rated mosfets and sensing circuitry to ensure a continuous load. Also you would likely need to decouple every single combined pin and rail to prevent out of phase ripples and whatnot.

This could be designed and built by hand, but I suspect it would be fairly large and fairly expensive and not exactly the easiest thing to place inside a case if done this way. I have never seen an aftermarket solution for this.

Also pretty much it seems like you would need a separate circuit to combine every single rail in the PSU.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I was referring to something that I could buy already made. I would think you could buy something like that.

 
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