Inflation skyrockets to highest level since 1990 -CNN

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
So do you want low inflation but a stagnant economy? Or do you want higher inflation and a robust economy?

Taxing the rich has nothing to do with this btw.

 

Forsythe

Platinum Member
May 2, 2004
2,825
0
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
So do you want low inflation but a stagnant economy? Or do you want higher inflation and a robust economy?

Taxing the rich has nothing to do with this btw.

So low inflation is bad for the economy and high makes it better?
 

3chordcharlie

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2004
9,859
1
81
Originally posted by: Genx87
Taxing the rich has nothing to do with this btw.

Nope - this is a question of monetary policy.

In a world of sticky wages though, guess whose 'real wage' tends to fall under inflation? It isn't the CEO;)
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Not at all.

But a lower inflation usually means your economy is sputtering and you have high interest rates. This is why the fed is constantyl moving the rates up and down trying to balance economic growth and inflation.

If they left it at an ultra low rate forever our economy would grow by leaps and bounds. But then we would see an increase in inflation to go right along with it.

 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,817
6,778
126
When money is worthless we can pay off the national debt. George is a genius.
 

3chordcharlie

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2004
9,859
1
81
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
When money is worthless we can pay off the national debt. George is a genius.

The funny thing is Heartsurgeon used to say this exact same thing, only without the irony;)

 

zephyrprime

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2001
7,512
2
81
Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
When money is worthless we can pay off the national debt. George is a genius.

The funny thing is Heartsurgeon used to say this exact same thing, only without the irony;)
There's a lot of truth to what Moonbeam is saying in fact. It's an old trick in the book for dealing with lots of national debt.

I wonder how big of a slice of the inflation is due to repatriated dollars. Foreigners have been dumping the dollar because of its declining exchange value. When those dollars come back to the US, doesn't it cause inflation?

 

3chordcharlie

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2004
9,859
1
81
Originally posted by: zephyrprime
Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
When money is worthless we can pay off the national debt. George is a genius.

The funny thing is Heartsurgeon used to say this exact same thing, only without the irony;)
There's a lot of truth to what Moonbeam is saying in fact. It's an old trick in the book for dealing with lots of national debt.

I wonder how big of a slice of the inflation is due to repatriated dollars. Foreigners have been dumping the dollar because of its declining exchange value. When those dollars come back to the US, doesn't it cause inflation?

Well a glut of motivated sellers will depress the currency WRT other world currencies, theregy raising prices (of imports directly, and to some extent of domestic goods through arbitrage).

You certainly CAN devalue and pay off debt with inflationary dollars; it's just that it's inefficient, and amounts to a tax on people holding your currency. In extreme cases it leads to complete loss of trust in the currency, and thereby to economic chaos.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,839
2,625
136
I know from my personal expenses that such things as heating oil, gasoline, health insurance and my kid's college tuitions have all been rising at rates well above the the posted national rate of inflation. The only difference (again from my personal viewpoint) between now and the "bad old days" of the 1970s is back then we could at least earn high rates of return at the bank and paychecks grew subtantially.

In today's environment of outsourcing, etc., the squeeze on the middle class is far greater than it has been in many years. When the housing market finally cycles downward (not that far off) look for a hard crash. Especially if it is coupled with baby boomers pulling money out of the stock market/mutual funds to pay for early retirement or living expenses.
 

3chordcharlie

Diamond Member
Mar 30, 2004
9,859
1
81
Originally posted by: Thump553
I know from my personal expenses that such things as heating oil, gasoline, health insurance and my kid's college tuitions have all been rising at rates well above the the posted national rate of inflation. The only difference (again from my personal viewpoint) between now and the "bad old days" of the 1970s is back then we could at least earn high rates of return at the bank and paychecks grew subtantially.

In today's environment of outsourcing, etc., the squeeze on the middle class is far greater than it has been in many years. When the housing market finally cycles downward (not that far off) look for a hard crash. Especially if it is coupled with baby boomers pulling money out of the stock market/mutual funds to pay for early retirement or living expenses.

On most of the things you list, 'inflation' is the wrong term - those are 'price increases' and are not associated, in general, with a less valuable dollar. By the same token, televisions are mUCH cheaper than even 5-10 years ago; this isn't 'deflation' it's a price decrease.

In terms of your own cost of living, at least in the short term, it doesn't matter why prices go up. In the long term under inflation ,your wages should generally increase to compensate, all else being equal (meaning the real effect is to devalue both your savings and your debts, since these are not subject to 'inflation' as they are recorded in dollars, not '1995 dollars' or some such thing.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
The core PPI, which excludes food and energy, rose only 0.3%. The 1.7% increase includes food and energy. Almost the sole cause of this latest inflation statistic was due to rising oil/gas prices, but was contributed to by lackluster harvests and the Fed raising interest rates.

Genx87 needs to go back to his economics classes. Low inflation does not necessarily mean a sputtering economy and high inflation does not necessarily mean a robust economy, nor is high inflation always caused by rising domestic consumer demand. Notice that virtually all markets reacted negatively to this news. The PPI is a measure of wholesale, not retail prices. Rising oil prices have increased costs to producers, costs that they will have to figure out how to pass down to an unwilling retail market, and that means lower corporate profits. This is bad news for the economy, not good.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Vic
The core PPI, which excludes food and energy, rose only 0.3%. The 1.7% increase includes food and energy. Almost the sole cause of this latest inflation statistic was due to rising oil/gas prices, but was contributed to by lackluster harvests and the Fed raising interest rates.

Genx87 needs to go back to his economics classes. Low inflation does not necessarily mean a sputtering economy and high inflation does not necessarily mean a robust economy, nor is high inflation always caused by rising domestic consumer demand. Notice that virtually all markets reacted negatively to this news. The PPI is a measure of wholesale, not retail prices. Rising oil prices have increased costs to producers, costs that they will have to figure out how to pass down to an unwilling retail market, and that means lower corporate profits. This is bad news for the economy, not good.

This is bad news for the economy, not good.

You have to get with the program that is 4 years old now, there is no such thing as anything "bad" for the Economy under this Regime.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: b0mbrman
Uh...people with lots of money will be hurt the most...Isn't that totally intuitive?

People with lots of debt will be happy...
You are correct, it is investors who will be hurt the most, although inflation could drive up interest rates and that could hurt debtors with adjustable rate loans (i.e. credit cards). Remains to be seen if this isn't just a brief spike though, as the increase in the core was minimal.
 

b0mbrman

Lifer
Jun 1, 2001
29,470
1
81
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: b0mbrman
Uh...people with lots of money will be hurt the most...Isn't that totally intuitive?

People with lots of debt will be happy...
You are correct, it is investors who will be hurt the most
Not those who invest in commodities ;)
 

GoPackGo

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2003
6,521
598
126
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: b0mbrman
Uh...people with lots of money will be hurt the most...Isn't that totally intuitive?

People with lots of debt will be happy...
You are correct, it is investors who will be hurt the most, although inflation could drive up interest rates and that could hurt debtors with adjustable rate loans (i.e. credit cards). Remains to be seen if this isn't just a brief spike though, as the increase in the core was minimal.

Fuel prices are starting to come down.

Gas is down to under $1.80 again...supplies are good.

Now that the election is over and if things in Iraq could get stablized maybe the prices will wall further.

Over-priced fuel is bad for everybody, even for the oil companies believe it or not.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,268
126
Yet another gift due in large part to GWB.

Make sure that we include this in the war cost.
 

Dissipate

Diamond Member
Jan 17, 2004
6,815
0
0
The Fed's Grasping Invisible Hand

by George F. Smith

As Adam Smith explains, the free market brings its wonders to the world by virtue of an invisible hand. Individuals cooperating under the international division of labor and seeking generally to satisfy their own wants end up promoting the general welfare, often without intending to or without realizing it.

Not to be outdone, government too has developed a systemic hand that is usually not seen. Unlike the market, when this hand moves, we lose. Through inflation, government snatches the market?s bounty for its own purposes, enervating our lives accordingly.

As a ?stealth tax,? inflation requires no legislation to impose, no agency to collect, and diverts responsibility for damages onto politicians? favorite whipping boys. It gives government the ability to buy almost anything for nothing, while creating endless problems that serve as a pretext for intervention. Inflation is the foundation of arrogant government and a prescription for our own demise.

Government inflates through its central bank, the Federal Reserve System, which it created in 1913. The Fed does many other things, but its foremost responsibility is to keep diluting our money supply with unbacked dollars.

To repeat: The Fed is the engine of inflation in this country. Inflation is not some curse of capitalism. It?s government policy. It is any increase in the money supply. We see this alluded to in the Fed?s charter, which calls on it ?to furnish an elastic currency.? [1] Fed Governor Ben Bernanke almost boasts about it: ?[T]he U.S. government has a technology, called a printing press (or, today, its electronic equivalent), that allows it to produce as many U.S. dollars as it wishes at essentially no cost.? [2]

If this sounds like counterfeiting, be advised that almost no one sees it that way, especially government and Fed officials. According to the MSN Encarta dictionary, a counterfeiter is a person who makes ?a copy of something, especially money, in order to defraud or deceive people.? Does that shoe fit the Fed? You decide.

The Fed?s inflation is often part of a process called ?monetizing the federal debt,? a stultifying expression describing the hocus-pocus used to cover government?s deficits. In simple language, government puts ink on pieces of paper and calls them ?securities,? in response to which the central bank puts ink on pieces of paper, calls it money, and buys the securities.

Like magic, the federal government has new money to spend ? thanks to the tooth fairy known as the Fed.

When government imposed its central bank on us in 1913, pulling money from a hat was more of a challenge than it is now. If the Fed printed too many paper tickets, people would begin to wonder if the banking system could redeem them in gold on demand, as stated on the tickets. The fear of a bank run acted as a brake on inflation.

Since inflation is the increase in the money supply, gold imposed a limit on the amount of government debt the Fed could buy, which in turn put restrictions on government spending. If gold could be eliminated, those restrictions would go away.

When the Fed was being sold to the public, its advocates told people it would prevent panics and recessions by virtue of its power to provide money and cheap credit on demand. Eight years after its inception, the country slid into a recession (1921), and after another eight years the stock market crashed. By the time a new administration took power in 1933, the economy was on its knees.

Assured the free market had failed them, a bewildered public turned to government for deliverance. On April 5, 1933 President Roosevelt issued Executive Order 6102, in which he ordered all persons to turn in their gold or face a possible 10-year prison sentence and a $10,000 fine. He gave them until April 28 to comply. [3] For this and countless other New Deal interventions, most historians regard Roosevelt as a demigod for ?saving? capitalism.

After the gold heist, dollars were no longer redeemable, at least domestically. Foreigners were allowed (though not encouraged) to swap their dollars for gold until August 15, 1971, when President Nixon repudiated the government?s redemption obligations.

With gold completely severed from the dollar, our monetary system lost its best defense against political caprice. Not surprisingly, inflation rose to double digits by 1973. As economist Ludwig von Mises tells us, the gold standard makes the supply of money depend on the profitability of mining gold. [4] The pure fiat dollar faces no obstacles to its production, other than the integrity of government and Fed officials.

Nevertheless, spokespeople for government?s monetary monopoly assure us the proliferation of unbacked dollars helps the economy. Indeed, people at the Fed, such as Governor Bernanke, refer to their inflationary practices as an ?accommodative monetary policy.? [5]

What happens when the Fed ?accommodates? us by increasing the stock of money?

First, it reduces the value of the dollar. More dollars means each one buys less, putting upward pressure on prices. Technology and improvements in production tend to push prices downward, but because of inflation fewer people can afford admission to the market?s bounty.

As a rough idea of how far the dollar has plummeted, $5,000 in 1913 had greater buying power than $95,000 in 2004. [6]

Second, a depreciating dollar discourages savings. Why put money away if it?s going to lose value? Instead, millions of investment neophytes put their funds in the stock market in an attempt to protect themselves against Fed printing presses. Has this been a successful hedge?

During the biggest bull market in history ? 1984 to 2001 ? the S&P rose 14.5 percent a year. But frequent trading by fund managers and high fees reduced the average rate of return to 4.2 percent annually. According to Vanguard group founder John Bogle, if you include the results of 2002, the average return from equities was under 3 percent per year ? less than the inflation rate. [7]

Third, new injections of money spur a tinsel prosperity, and the Fed keeps injecting new money to feed the boom. With so much borrowing and spending, prices may rise even faster than the rate of currency inflation.

As the public broods over higher prices, a semantic shift takes place. Inflation comes to mean not an increase in the money supply, but the rise in prices itself. [8] Thus, businesses that charge higher prices become the villains, while government officials that threaten price controls wear the halos. Most people have no idea what the Fed does, so government can scapegoat business and appear to be defenders of the public weal. Nor do most people understand that price ceilings create shortages, by encouraging consumption and retarding production. Shortages, in turn, bring on government-imposed quotas, which foster corruption, black markets, and violent crime.

Fourth, as the influx of dollars drives prices higher, some industries find themselves at a disadvantage with foreign competitors, tempting them to lobby Washington for protection from imports. Protective tariffs and quotas, of course, push prices up further, while sometimes sparking trade wars as other countries retaliate on American exports. And trade wars can lead to shooting wars.

In June, 1930, with the economy fighting the recession brought on by Fed monetary policies, President Hoover signed the Hawley-Smoot Tariff Act, raising tariff levels to the highest in U.S. history. Other countries immediately retaliated, markets shut down, and economic conditions worsened worldwide.

Fifth, inflation raises nominal incomes, pushing people into higher tax brackets, which increases government tax revenue. As people?s wealth goes out the window in depreciating dollars, taxes consume more of what remains.

Sixth, inflation shifts wealth from people who can?t or don?t know how to defend themselves from monetary destruction to those who can. As a simple example, a person living on a fixed income may find his buying power so depleted he sells a family heirloom to pay for an unanticipated expense. Or a bank that was part of the lending spree that helped drive prices skyward may foreclose on the homes of some of its borrowers, whose incomes were ravaged by monetary debauchery.

Seventh, Mr. Bernanke?s ?accommodative? measures keep people working much later in their careers because they cannot afford to live off their deteriorating pensions. Dollar depreciation is a huge reason why both husband and wife work in many families.

Eighth, because government often gets the new money first, it can fund controversial measures such as war and bailouts without drawing taxpayer ire. Government simply puts the funding on its charge card, prompting the alchemy of Fed debt monetization. We get the bill, of course, but this way it?s spread over everything else we buy, so we never see it itemized.

Ninth, because inflation has an uneven affect on prices, raising some faster or sooner than others, people have a hard time distinguishing illusion from reality. As cheap credit abounds, business people, investors, and cube dwellers hear the siren call of can?t-miss profit opportunities. Fortunes are made then lost, and companies find it harder to keep employees when they?re losing money.

Tenth, government may pose as the savior of a group of voters they?ve impoverished, such as the elderly, by subsidizing their medical expenses. New entitlements create the need for more revenue, which fuels more inflation, pushing the dollar closer to a complete collapse.

Eleventh, as Mises observed, ?under inflationary conditions, people acquire the habit of looking upon the government as an institution with limitless means at its disposal: the state, the government, can do anything.? [9] People today want government to ensure a democratic Middle East, universal health care, free education, a missile defense system, a guaranteed retirement income, and a trip to Mars. They want government to do all that and more.

But we can relax ? Mr. Bernanke?s printing presses stand ready to ?accommodate? these wishes.

If gold is the barbarous relic its many detractors claim it is, we might expect the Fed?s fiat currency to be a better deal. But even Fed Chairman Greenspan admits that it isn?t, telling a New York audience in 2002 that ?the price level in 1929 was not much different, on net, from what it had been in 1800. But, in the two decades following the abandonment of the gold standard in 1933, the consumer price index in the United States nearly doubled. And, in the four decades after that, prices quintupled.? [10]

Lord Keynes, the 20th Century?s guru of deficit spending, never spelled out how deficits should be financed, admitting only that increased taxation was not the answer. [11] Perhaps he had pangs of conscience about calling for inflation outright. Writing after World War I, he noted: ?There is no subtler, no surer means of overturning the existing basis of society than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose.? [12]

Iraq and terrorism dominate the news, but how little we hear about the policies nurturing these issues, one of which is government?s power to confiscate wealth with the Fed?s invisible hand.

We should wipe every trace of the Federal Reserve from our lives and allow the market to freely choose our monetary standard, which most likely would be gold. In the meantime, we should shut down Mr. Bernanke?s printing presses for good.

Text
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,839
2,625
136
Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
Originally posted by: Thump553
I know from my personal expenses that such things as heating oil, gasoline, health insurance and my kid's college tuitions have all been rising at rates well above the the posted national rate of inflation. The only difference (again from my personal viewpoint) between now and the "bad old days" of the 1970s is back then we could at least earn high rates of return at the bank and paychecks grew subtantially.

In today's environment of outsourcing, etc., the squeeze on the middle class is far greater than it has been in many years. When the housing market finally cycles downward (not that far off) look for a hard crash. Especially if it is coupled with baby boomers pulling money out of the stock market/mutual funds to pay for early retirement or living expenses.

On most of the things you list, 'inflation' is the wrong term - those are 'price increases' and are not associated, in general, with a less valuable dollar. By the same token, televisions are mUCH cheaper than even 5-10 years ago; this isn't 'deflation' it's a price decrease.

In terms of your own cost of living, at least in the short term, it doesn't matter why prices go up. In the long term under inflation ,your wages should generally increase to compensate, all else being equal (meaning the real effect is to devalue both your savings and your debts, since these are not subject to 'inflation' as they are recorded in dollars, not '1995 dollars' or some such thing.

Things must have changed since I got my economics degree a while back. I've never heard any theory that makes a distinction between "price increases" and inflation. Price increases are what cause inflation. Prices increasing faster than income IS real inflation.

I am facing very real inflation, where the costs of what I purchase are increasing much more rapidly than my wages (which, in fact, are declining in the Bush years). Your television example is a good point to indicate what I think is wrong with the over-emphasis on the general inflation index (the so-called CPI). Most people (except hobbists) buy TVs only when they need a new one-every 5-15 years. I could care less if TVs doubled in price tomorrow-I have no intention of buying one any time in the foreseeable future and if I was, and the price got prohibitive, I just wouldn't. Price increases in the "marketbasket" of what a typical consumer does buy are the only true indication of inflation that is relevant to all of us.

The current amount of damage to the economy has been masked in large part by the cheaper interest rates engineered by the Federal Reserve. A huge portion of our economy is presently funded by cash generated by mortgage refinances and home equity loans. Thirty years ago, nearly all homeowners would have their house paid off in full when they reached age 60 or so. The exact opposite is true now-most people in their fifties and sixties owe much more money on their houses now than when they bought them. We have already passed the bottom of the interest rates, which could not be driven any lower. At this delicate point, even a slowdown in home value increase (much less a downturn) will result in economic diaster.

I see the US on the cusp of a renewed and troublesome bout of inflation. If Bush destablizes things enough so that the US dollar is no longer treated as the world's basic currency (replaced by the eurodollar or something else) then the American economy will undergo a serious and fundamental decline. We will become the new Britain, post WWII.
 

Dissipate

Diamond Member
Jan 17, 2004
6,815
0
0
Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
Originally posted by: Dissipate
The Fed's Grasping Invisible Hand

by George F. Smith
The only touble is that isn't the current policy; look up the contribution of seignorage to the government budget; it's miniscule.

We already went over this before. The banks magnify by a factor of 10 any seignorage. Text