Inflation hurts the poor more, IFS says.

[matt0611]

Your bill of credit is an invalid argument as that is something prohibited by the States but not prohibited for the USG. As pointed out in the text, that argument is expressio unius est exclusio alterius and therefore not applicable to the USG.

Funny, diamonds are, effectively, worthless. They have a constrained supply met with artificial demand driven by DeBeer's marketing campaign. Gold has about the same type of value, although the supply is more naturally constrained. The demand is set by a historical marketing campaign. Both examples are purely a psychological construct.

I do find it funny that you want to cherry pick the Constitutional articles to suit your own goal, although both sections do not prohibit paper currency, as highlighted in that paper written by a person far smarter than you are. If it were unconstitutional, why don't you go and sue the Fed and be the first (and smartest) person in history to be successful. Do it, I double dog dare you.

Lol yes, I will go ahead and devote my life to taking the fed to court over something the courts couldn't give less of a shit about. The constitution went out the window a long time ago. Too late now.

 

[soccerballtux]

Why not? Everything falls under "promoting the general welfare" these days.

Hey look, another clown who didn't take a con-law class either, or even bothered to read the article above. But hey, YouTube is a fine place to gain well-rounded historically and intellectually rooted basis for Constitutional application and interpretation.

It's kinda like the healthcare bill, or planned parenthood. Just define whatever you want as something that "promotes the general welfare" and the media will buy it.

 

[soccerballtux]

gold is a shitty inflation hedge, always has been, always will be.

You don't have to worry about minorities becoming majorities in your neighborhood and bringing violence and drugs, you don't have to worry about the housing market going bust, you don't have to worry about the market taking a down turn, it's still going to be worth something substantial in anything but a post-apocalyptic world-- and thus you can store wealth in it and not really *worry* about losing it to risks that you don't want to expose yourself to. It might not pace with inflation but I don't consider that a risk in the same way that investing a 30 year Treasury right now is.

This is the "safe from risk" aka "keeping it out of the system" that they don't want people doing, because that means you aren't putting your faith in "them" (TPTB).

 

[LegendKiller]

It's kinda like the healthcare bill, or planned parenthood. Just define whatever you want as something that "promotes the general welfare" and the media will buy it.

There is a solid Constitutional construct for fiat currency, as shown already. It doesn't need to go under general welfare. Notice how matt gave up? It's because he can't argue effectively against something that's been settled decades ago.

As far as the historical construct of gold - I couldn't give two shits whether it was supported in Mesopotamia or from the first tribes of ancient Africa. Man once believed the universe revolved around earth, that sea monsters ate ships and the earth was flat. Misguided historical psychology is misguided psychology, period.

 

[matt0611]

There is a solid Constitutional construct for fiat currency, as shown already. It doesn't need to go under general welfare. Notice how matt gave up? It's because he can't argue effectively against something that's been settled decades ago.

As far as the historical construct of gold - I couldn't give two shits whether it was supported in Mesopotamia or from the first tribes of ancient Africa. Man once believed the universe revolved around earth, that sea monsters ate ships and the earth was flat. Misguided historical psychology is misguided psychology, period.

Yes, we all know how the supreme court ruled captain obvious.
Too bad that doesn't change the constitution or the facts though.

Your only argument was that to "coin ~= to print", which has already been addressed.
If you twist and mangle words enough and you can make the constitution say anything you want though.

Even setting aside the legality / constitutionality of it (and getting the thread somewhat back on topic), the arguments against fiat still stand.

 

[BoberFett]

I thought this thread was about the effects of inflation policy and how it actually harms the poor?

Thread divert successful.

 

[matt0611]

I thought this thread was about the effects of inflation policy and how it actually harms the poor?

Thread divert successful.

Lol, its an Anarchist420 thread, thats what these are meant for

 

[jhu]

LeBron James sucks

 

[DucatiMonster696]

I've said that many times, people just don't seem to get it. Not sure why they don't pick something else as their sound-money basis, like Titanium or Palladium or even uranium. Something with actual value, not just what the market thinks it's worth for jewelry.

Ummmm....Gold has a lot more uses outside of jewelry. Maybe you should unplug your computer and find out.

 

[fskimospy]

Yes, we all know how the supreme court ruled captain obvious.
Too bad that doesn't change the constitution or the facts though.

Your only argument was that to "coin ~= to print", which has already been addressed.
If you twist and mangle words enough and you can make the constitution say anything you want though.

Even setting aside the legality / constitutionality of it (and getting the thread somewhat back on topic), the arguments against fiat still stand.

It never ceases to amaze me how often people on the internet say something to the effect of 'I don't care what the Supreme Court says, I know how the Constitution works'.

 

[Abwx]

The Swiss have a completely different economy and is very socialist.

France is hardly "doing better" than the US. The Euro is structured specifically for France and Germany to the detriment to every other country in the EU. France's GDP growth is far lower than the US during most periods. That's the offshoot of their socialist system.

What's funny is that you use two very socialist societies to back up your arguments against monetary situations. One is in a very un-mises currency regime, another is highly socialist with very high top marginal tax brackets. The Nordic countries are also doing reasonably well, but they are very socialist also with very high tax rates. Funny...

France and Switzerland are socialist states ?....

What you fail to understand is that in these countries , capitalists
entities are so powerfull that they can prevent anyone from entering
a market, thus the higher tax rate than in the US.

In that respect , market access , the US is more socialist than any
european country...

 

[soccerballtux]

As far as the historical construct of gold - I couldn't give two shits whether it was supported in Mesopotamia or from the first tribes of ancient Africa. Man once believed the universe revolved around earth, that sea monsters ate ships and the earth was flat. Misguided historical psychology is misguided psychology, period.

Your opinion has no effect on what the rest of the world and history seems to have already decided about gold's value. You are in the extreme minority that would say it's nothing more than academically fiat.

 

[Thump553]

Your opinion has no effect on what the rest of the world and history seems to have already decided about gold's value. You are in the extreme minority that would say it's nothing more than academically fiat.

Got a chuckle out of that-goldnut claiming the vast majority of modern economic thought (and 100% of its practice) is "in the extreme minority."

Gold nuts live in the past, but with rosy glasses on, convenently ignoring all the problems caused by a gold standard.

To get this somewhat on topic, inflation is about #19 in the top twenty economic problems we are facing. Deflation is far more likely. If this was 1975 we should be concerned about inflation but it is an insignificant problem in the real USA today.

 

[Anarchist420]

Although I think it's silly to think gold is fiat when its value is subjective, while fiat is fiat because it has an objective value forced by the law, I agree with LK on the Constitutional issues. The Antifederalists didn't frame the Constitution, the Federalists did. The Federalists, National Republicans, Anti-Masonics, and Henry Clay Whigs were the party of paper money.

In short, the gold and silver clause was a limitation on the states, not the Federal government. The first and 2nd Central banks printed more notes than they had silver, so the money issued was technically fiat currency. The biggest supporters of the FBUS (Robert Morris, Hamilton, Washington) were among the most prominent framers of the Constitution, the biggest opponents of FBUS were the Jeffersonians (George Clinton, Thomas Jefferson) who originally fought tooth and nail against the Constitution. Unfortunately, their efforts were in vain and Jefferson somehow thought that the Constitution was meant to limit govt. The dude totally lost it after he collapsed and fell on his head.

In addition to all that, fiat money can be deemed necessary and proper to carry out the enumerated powers like raising a military. The Constitution places no real limits on war powers.

Finally, Madison made the bill of rights 10 weak amendments instead of one strong amendment for a reason, that reason being that he believed there were supposed to be implied powers. If your goal is to limit the Federal government then why make 10 Amendments when you can just make one that says:
[The Federal Government shall assume no power that isn't specifically delegated to it]?

 

[alkemyst]

In reality people usually vote against themselves thinking they are helping.

 

[her209]

It's kinda like the healthcare bill, or planned parenthood. Just define whatever you want as something that "promotes the general welfare" and the media will buy it.

Or when your town gets destroyed by a tornado, flooded by the river, or burnt up by the forest fire.

 

[LegendKiller]

Yes, we all know how the supreme court ruled captain obvious.
Too bad that doesn't change the constitution or the facts though.

Your only argument was that to "coin ~= to print", which has already been addressed.
If you twist and mangle words enough and you can make the constitution say anything you want though.

Even setting aside the legality / constitutionality of it (and getting the thread somewhat back on topic), the arguments against fiat still stand.

Wrong, as stated in the article and analysis, coining did not absolutely mean metal. Use your brain, if in fact you have one.

 

[LegendKiller]

France and Switzerland are socialist states ?....

What you fail to understand is that in these countries , capitalists
entities are so powerfull that they can prevent anyone from entering
a market, thus the higher tax rate than in the US.

In that respect , market access , the US is more socialist than any
european country...

They also have huge unions,laws to support them and massive government support for the same.

 

[theevilsharpie]

The Swiss have a completely different economy and is very socialist.

Switzerland does not have a socialist economy. Even if you consider modern-day mixed economies as socialist, the Swiss economy is very "capitalist" as far as mixed economies go.

 

[Siddhartha]

never mind

 

[Anarchist420]

Switzerland does not have a socialist economy. Even if you consider modern-day mixed economies as socialist, the Swiss economy is very "capitalist" as far as mixed economies go.

Agreed. Switzerland is more free market than the U.S. is. They have a stronger currency, lower tax rates, less militarism, and less regulations. Universal HC is no more socialist than standing armies and wars because they both redistribute wealth unevenly. And their universal HC is less socialist than our military because they spend less on it. I'm not condoning UHC in any way, I'm just pointing out how sad it is that we spend more on an self-defeating military than a country spends on health care.

I'm not going to move to Switzerland though, because I'm going to make this country live up to its word.

 

[piasabird]

Almost everything hurts the poor more.
Taxes
Food Prices
Gas Prices
Tobacco
Alcohol

There are different ways to approach health care.
It can be used to help everyone live a better life and it can also be used to control people through social engineering. Of course most applications of a one size fits all approach is to overtax everyone.

One has to look at what is possible to provide everyone, and how much you plan on paying for it.
Control prices for Drugs, Doctors, Nurses, Medical tests, etc. In our current system is a doctor does not order enough medical tests, he can not make enough money. Just say no to most of these stupid medical tests.

 

[Macamus Prime]

Switzerland is doing quite well with their low and Flat tax, strong currency, and decreasing public debt.

This is cute.

I am pretty sure if the Swiss didn't offer a safe haven for terrorist and dictator money, they would be in a different situation.

BTW - there are no Swiss "banks" where all this money is safely kept,... just Swiss wealth management companies. That hide their dirty clients money behind international legal loop holes.

 

[dmcowen674]

Inflation hurts the poor more, IFS says.

Obviously.

Anyway, it's about damn time someone other than the Mises Institute has done a great study on this. U.S. Govt stats and CNN will tell you otherwise, but they're full of shit.

Why would the ruling class set inflationary policies if it didn't help them? QE2 hasn't worked and the countries (U.K., US) with the most stimulus (inflation, spending) still have the highest unemployment. Switzerland is doing quite well with their low and Flat tax, strong currency, and decreasing public debt. Even France is doing better than U.S. is.

I hope Keynes is burning in Hell as I type this.

All one has to do is look at the posts by the rich religious elite Republican bastards in here to verify this study, jeesh.

 

[ConstipatedVigilante]

Keynes didn't advocate for the system we have now. He advocated for something close to Bretton-Woods (which was a huge success, and was destroyed by speculation).