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Infinity Ward: New CoD Engine Would Be "Counter-productive"

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Umm ... pong came out in 1972, and NES came out in 1985.

didn't realize the PS3 and 360 have been out since 1998 holy crap where have i been?!?!?
 
purbeast0 said:
Umm ... pong came out in 1972, and NES came out in 1985.

didn't realize the PS3 and 360 have been out since 1998 holy crap where have i been?!?!?
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Arcade Pong came out in 72... not the console.
the home console didn't see wide release until the late 70s.
 
CVSiN said:
Wow.. so by half you tools and that VP.. the world should not advance with technology and instead just stay status quo just because something is "good enough" and still makes money does not mean it is the best..? good to know why technology advancement is at a standstill..
this generation is fucking lazy..
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Business fail. When competition requires a new engine, they'll create it.
 
CVSiN said:
How many times over the last 10 years have you replaced your cell phone? Id bet at least 4-6 times. did you need to replace it? nope.. that 10 year old phone still does great for voice and maybe even text.. but you wanted the newest and the flashiest phone with all the features.. what about your TV or your home theater.. I replace mine every few years with a bigger better more feature rich model to stay current as do alot of techy people I know. Same thing applies here..
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No, it doesn't. A TV manufacturer doesn't sell a TV at a loss and try to make it up in licensing from TV stations to produce content for it. It's features and innovation(or really good marketing) that drive sales there.

With a cell phone the carrier can largely subsidize the costs of hardware across a subscription they lock you into. And as a bonus consumers can buy very expensive hardware for a fraction of the production cost.

With consoles Sony and Microsoft are taking a loss on everyone one of those devices that come off the line for years until they finally break even. There's no guarantee of licensed software sales to offset the initial costs. There's a major learning curve for developers to familiarize themselves with the hardware and tapping into the power of the device. Ect. It's just a royal pain in the ass for everyone. Including the consumers that really aren't overly eager to drop $400-$600 in console hardware every 3-5 years.

And then there's the bottom line issue -better tech doesn't make for better games. Some of the best games on a console come in their golden years as developers have really figured out how to maximize the devices.

I don't think it's really the same at all to other markets.
 
vi edit said:
No, it doesn't. A TV manufacturer doesn't sell a TV at a loss and try to make it up in licensing from TV stations to produce content for it. It's features and innovation(or really good marketing) that drive sales there.

With a cell phone the carrier can largely subsidize the costs of hardware across a subscription they lock you into. And as a bonus consumers can buy very expensive hardware for a fraction of the production cost.

With consoles Sony and Microsoft are taking a loss on everyone one of those devices that come off the line for years until they finally break even. There's no guarantee of licensed software sales to offset the initial costs. There's a major learning curve for developers to familiarize themselves with the hardware and tapping into the power of the device. Ect. It's just a royal pain in the ass for everyone. Including the consumers that really aren't overly eager to drop $400-$600 in console hardware every 3-5 years.

And then there's the bottom line issue -better tech doesn't make for better games. Some of the best games on a console come in their golden years as developers have really figured out how to maximize the devices.

I don't think it's really the same at all to other markets.
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Bingo.
 
BoberFett said:
Business fail. When competition requires a new engine, they'll create it.
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If you ask me the fail is ont he consumer that doesnt want them to create a new engine with new features to push the hardware even further..

With an attitude towards business like yours we'd all still be using Black and White Tv's.. "we dont need color black and white is just fine!"

New engines enable new features new physics new ballistic modeling in the case of shooters.. positional damage, destructible environments with realistic cover..etc etc etc..
The crappy engine they have been using is absolutely antiquated. low on feature set and power..
but its easier to reuse it and put new label on it and call it a day.. And people like you will still buy CoD Modern Warfare part 99 if it still used the same engine and didnt push technology.. and the companies know this..

At least BF3 they are building a brand new engine for both consoles and PCs to push the boundaries yet again..

Thanks for proving my point.. this generation is full of lazy sheeple that will accept whatever crap they relabel and feed to you.
 
CVSiN...consoles are generally marketed towards people who don't care as much for cutting edge technology, they just want a system that they can buy and not worry about for many years, just buy a game and plop it in. As I said in another thread, consoles appeal to the lowest common denominator, and that's what sells. Remember, Bud Light is one of the most popular beers in the US, if not THE most popular.
 
chalmers said:
CVSiN...consoles are generally marketed towards people who don't care as much for cutting edge technology, they just want a system that they can buy and not worry about for many years, just buy a game and plop it in. As I said in another thread, consoles appeal to the lowest common denominator, and that's what sells. Remember, Bud Light is one of the most popular beers in the US, if not THE most popular.
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Sadly, consoles are becoming ever more like PC's.

I can't think of many PS3 games I've bought/rented lately that didn't require a 10-20 minute install. And then a PS3 system update. And then a game update. Bleh.
 
vi edit said:
Sadly, consoles are becoming ever more like PC's.

I can't think of many PS3 games I've bought/rented lately that didn't require a 10-20 minute install. And then a PS3 system update. And then a game update. Bleh.
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Haha no doubt. I own a 360 myself, and can certainly see why developers and Microsoft/Sony drag their feet in releasing new technology. Would I love to see faster updates? Sure I guess, but I take consoles for what they are, and enjoy them for what they can provide me. It's all about being realistic.
 
CVSiN said:
If you ask me the fail is ont he consumer that doesnt want them to create a new engine with new features to push the hardware even further..

With an attitude towards business like yours we'd all still be using Black and White Tv's.. "we dont need color black and white is just fine!"

New engines enable new features new physics new ballistic modeling in the case of shooters.. positional damage, destructible environments with realistic cover..etc etc etc..
The crappy engine they have been using is absolutely antiquated. low on feature set and power..
but its easier to reuse it and put new label on it and call it a day.. And people like you will still buy CoD Modern Warfare part 99 if it still used the same engine and didnt push technology.. and the companies know this..

At least BF3 they are building a brand new engine for both consoles and PCs to push the boundaries yet again..

Thanks for proving my point.. this generation is full of lazy sheeple that will accept whatever crap they relabel and feed to you.
Click to expand...

Actually, people like me stopped buying CoD a couple versions ago, but continue to shriek like a crap flinging monkey.

Oh, and take some basic business classes.
 
BoberFett said:
Actually, people like me stopped buying CoD a couple versions ago, but continue to shriek like a crap flinging monkey.

Oh, and take some basic business classes.
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You again just proved my point by saying you stopped buying the product..They lost a customer due to staleness of the product.. How is what I'm saying not basic business? you want a product that people want.. you want a product that will attract old business back and new customers to come..

Now if the product was completely redone from the ground up with new technology and features on an improved engine would you not be at least curious to the new product?
I'm betting yes you would.. maybe you wouldn't rush out and buy it.. but you may be curious enough to rent to try at a friends house or whatever..
now being that they have no plans to change dick and just use what works for them so far what is the likelihood of you even bothering at all?

prolly less than 10% right?
 
CVSiN said:
You again just proved my point by saying you stopped buying the product..They lost a customer due to staleness of the product.. How is what I'm saying not basic business? you want a product that people want.. you want a product that will attract old business back and new customers to come..

Now if the product was completely redone from the ground up with new technology and features on an improved engine would you not be at least curious to the new product?
I'm betting yes you would.. maybe you wouldn't rush out and buy it.. but you may be curious enough to rent to try at a friends house or whatever..
now being that they have no plans to change dick and just use what works for them so far what is the likelihood of you even bothering at all?

prolly less than 10% right?
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When the loss of customers is greater than the cost of building a new engine it will get done. They're not at that point yet. Why is so hard to get through your skull?

Start your own company and do things the right way if you think Activision is incompetent.
 
Anubis said:
the community is the same as any FPS community TBH its all the same, HALO, COD, BF....
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Exactly the problem.

And there is plenty of cheating on the ps3, PSN in general has been a huge cheating community all the way back to Socom 1.
 
PimpJuice said:
Wow, you actually think Socom is any better in those regards? Socom has the WORST after release support I've ever seen and there are problems all over that series. It peaked at Socom 1 and Socom 2, then all downhill from there. I can't believe anyone would think that Socom is more polished than COD. They barely had the party system working the last time I checked along with lag and hit detection issues.

Also, I have BO on xbox as well as other shooters, but I have not seen a SINGLE cheater at all so your blanket statement that ALL shooters on all platforms have cheaters, no support and horrible communities is ignorant.

In contrast, I remember seeing lots of cheaters and glitchers in socom.
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Don't twist my word dork. You've made about 29 assumptions here not based off anything I said at all to try and somehow discredit me to make yourself look high and mighty.....and for what? A stupid forum? Get a life dude. My REAL LIFE friends that ACTUALLY MATTER all play Socom to this day, so that will be the only game I play because the only reason I even play these games anymore is to talk to my friends. I would recommend you do the same but it is clear that you and reality parted ways long ago. Have fun being the most respected guy in an internet forum, it's like being the coolest LARPER at a Blizzard convention.

Either way, you're still a joke. Have fun reporting me now that you, or your fake friends, are all butt hurt for me calling you out....or trying to twist this around to make it look like I'm the one who cares. Call of Duty is a joke, just like every other video game made, because those people making the games are busy counting their money and laughing at people like you all the way to the bank. Do yourself a favor and go outside, maybe even try talking to a random pretty girl for the first time.

MentalIlness said:
I believe this is the biggest reason I stick to single-player only.
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I can't say I blame you.
 
They absolutely do not need a new engine. Their current engine runs silky smooth, and they upgrade it slightly every year, but they are basically completely maxing out these ancient consoles. Whatever major graphical upgrades people are expecting from a brand new engine will have to come at the cost of performance and that's just unacceptable.

I'm glad there's at least one dev that appreciates what 60fps can bring to table. I don't want to see that ever go away. If anything, I want everyone else to strive for that.

Frostbite 2 and the BF3 demo looks great for sure, but whoever thinks it'll come close to looking that good on the 360 or PS3 and maintain a solid framerate is kidding themselves. If anything, just imagine that bf3 demo at 60fps as a sneak peek of what CoD will eventually look like on the next gen of consoles, whenever they come.
 
Pr0d1gy said:
Don't twist my word dork. You've made about 29 assumptions here not based off anything I said at all to try and somehow discredit me to make yourself look high and mighty.....and for what? A stupid forum? Get a life dude. My REAL LIFE friends that ACTUALLY MATTER all play Socom to this day, so that will be the only game I play because the only reason I even play these games anymore is to talk to my friends. I would recommend you do the same but it is clear that you and reality parted ways long ago. Have fun being the most respected guy in an internet forum, it's like being the coolest LARPER at a Blizzard convention.

Either way, you're still a joke. Have fun reporting me now that you, or your fake friends, are all butt hurt for me calling you out....or trying to twist this around to make it look like I'm the one who cares. Call of Duty is a joke, just like every other video game made, because those people making the games are busy counting their money and laughing at people like you all the way to the bank. Do yourself a favor and go outside, maybe even try talking to a random pretty girl for the first time..
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You have some serious insecurity issues dude. Get some help.
I'm engaged and have no need to go talk to random pretty girls, but I appreciate your personal assumptions about my life. Grow up and learn to take some criticism without wetting your panties.
 
CVSiN said:
When I was growing up games and systems died of obsolescence in less than 1 year as technology was constantly being pushed by the PC and Mac game market of the 80s and 90s.
We went from PONG to Nintendo in the same window as the 360/PS3 have been out.
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No you didn't. There was over a decade between Pong and the NES being released. There was a 7-year gap between the NES and the SNES and then a 6-year gap between the SNES and the N64.
 
CVSiN said:
You again just proved my point by saying you stopped buying the product..They lost a customer due to staleness of the product.. How is what I'm saying not basic business? you want a product that people want.. you want a product that will attract old business back and new customers to come..

Now if the product was completely redone from the ground up with new technology and features on an improved engine would you not be at least curious to the new product?
Click to expand...

Curious, yes. Guarantee of quality, no.

The engine and the hardware isn't the problem.
 
chalmers said:
Haha no doubt. I own a 360 myself, and can certainly see why developers and Microsoft/Sony drag their feet in releasing new technology. Would I love to see faster updates? Sure I guess, but I take consoles for what they are, and enjoy them for what they can provide me. It's all about being realistic.
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This is an EXCELLENT point. Patches are flowing out to console games pretty much every day; patches to DLC as well.

So, why would a developer spend 2 to 3 years learning a console, and when it comes time to support patches, he has to learn a NEW console system?? All the while still supporting the previous gen's game? There is no way they will shorten the lifespan of a console to 2-3 years. It would be insane and no one would be capable of supporting it.

If anything, they may allow you to swap out video cards in future consoles. Making a true hybrid in a PC/console system. So far, with the PS3, you can upgrade the hard drive all on your own. I don't see why beefing up the video card wouldn't be a feasable option; logistically.

Price wise, I am sure it would cost too much. Especially if they go the route that MS did with the hard drive.
 
Macamus Prime said:
Price wise, I am sure it would cost too much. Especially if they go the route that MS did with the hard drive.
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Yeah seriously, can you imagine it? If they keep the same price hike ratio, you could easily upgrade your XBox 720's video card for a mere $1,500!
 
Veliko said:
No you didn't. There was over a decade between Pong and the NES being released. There was a 7-year gap between the NES and the SNES and then a 6-year gap between the SNES and the N64.
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fail..
You young people always forget that back then there were more than just 2 companies in the game..

You forgot consoles from Atari, Turbografix, NeoGeo, Coleco, Vectrex, Mattel, Sega and more than I'm sure my old ass brain has forgotten.. competition was very strong back then.. so yes you literally had new hardware and a new company competing every 1-4 years.

the problem now is no competition = slower technology upgrades there is no race going on..

And why would Devs have to relearn how to program? They don't have to relearn on the PC every time something new comes out..
I'm sure MS isn't going to change the OS in their next console, just a hardware refresh..

I agree a console with a replaceable "video card" might make sense as GPU tech does indeed seem to advance faster than anything else..
 
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