Infiniti G25 - Smart idea or neutered wannabe manufacturer cash in?

[StageLeft]

Since when is 218HP anything to scoff at? Don't be silly.

Since the year 2000 If we're honest this is a car getting 4 hp less than a decade old Maxima and getting about the same mileage. I know it's grossly unfair to compare ANYTHING with a 5th gen Maxima, but there you have it.

 

[A5]

Yes. As an enthusiast I don't like the concept of this car...especially with such minor improvements and cost savings. But I'm sure it will end up being a commercial success.

It makes me a little sad because now this thing is gonna flood the used market and make future used G37s cost more

 

[PricklyPete]

Since the year 2000 If we're honest this is a car getting 4 hp less than a decade old Maxima and getting about the same mileage. I know it's grossly unfair to compare ANYTHING with a 5th gen Maxima, but there you have it.

That 5th gen Maxima had more torque too...

 

[BoberFett]

There are people who can afford 31k but not 33k? Is their whole marketing dept smoking crack while trying to position this car?

That was my first thought. What's the point?

 

[Doggiedog]

No, it doesn't.

It also weighs the same as what, four motorcycles?

Actually, I went with Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Elise

A bit dated I guess.

 

[theeedude]

lol, nobody buys an infiniti for their "needs". It's for the badge. Please don't pretend there is anything practical about spending $30k on a modest size verhicle with RWD.

Badge buyers don't buy Infinitis. Some people just want a luxury car for comfort, safety and refinement and handling, are fine with 218hp and don't care about impressing you with their 300+ horsepowers and G37 badge. Those people can save a couple grand. You don't know what their needs are, maybe they are a real estate agent who needs an upscale look for clients, but don't care about racing you at stop light. Why shouldn't they have a choice to save some money and get just what they want or need, instead of what some people think they should have?

 

[StageLeft]

Why shouldn't they have a choice to save some money and get just what they want or need, instead of what some people think they should have?

Your question insinuates I said they shouldn't have a choice.

You say badge buyers don't buy Infinitis. I say they do. I don't think either of us will find a convincing objective argument on this point, however, or a peer-reviewed journal article proving it either way.

 

[AstroManLuca]

Badge buyers don't buy Infinitis. Some people just want a luxury car for comfort, safety and refinement and handling, are fine with 218hp and don't care about impressing you with their 300+ horsepowers and G37 badge. Those people can save a couple grand. You don't know what their needs are, maybe they are a real estate agent who needs an upscale look for clients, but don't care about racing you at stop light. Why shouldn't they have a choice to save some money and get just what they want or need, instead of what some people think they should have?

Your first statement seems to conflict with your second. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that this car seems exclusively designed for people who do buy an Infiniti for the badge. If they didn't care, why not get an Altima with leather? It's cheaper. And before you say "because the G25 is RWD," if you care enough about the performance to get a RWD car you should just get the G37 in the first place.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Since the year 2000 If we're honest this is a car getting 4 hp less than a decade old Maxima and getting about the same mileage. I know it's grossly unfair to compare ANYTHING with a 5th gen Maxima, but there you have it.

i'm sure the G25 has a lot more weight from safety and luxury items built in.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Your first statement seems to conflict with your second. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that this car seems exclusively designed for people who do buy an Infiniti for the badge. If they didn't care, why not get an Altima with leather? It's cheaper. And before you say "because the G25 is RWD," if you care enough about the performance to get a RWD car you should just get the G37 in the first place.

Honestly it's not just about the leather. The seats in the G are more comfortable than the Altima seats. I know this is probably a funny point to make but the thing I miss the most about my G (currently in an Altima) is the massive center console that I used for arm rest purposes. Every car should have that.

 

[theeedude]

Your first statement seems to conflict with your second. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that this car seems exclusively designed for people who do buy an Infiniti for the badge. If they didn't care, why not get an Altima with leather? It's cheaper. And before you say "because the G25 is RWD," if you care enough about the performance to get a RWD car you should just get the G37 in the first place.

Why is that contradictory? Upscale is not just a function of the badge or power. You could completely debadge a G25, and it will still be a more upscale product than a completely debadged Altima.
RWD is important, because it feels more refined, no torque steer, better looking proportions, better balance in corners. Even if someone never uses more than 200 horsepower, they still take corners in everyday driving, so RWD handling is something you use all the time. Dealership experience is also better than Nissan's. There are many more aspects to luxury than power and badge.

 

[AstroManLuca]

Yeah, you guys do have some good points. The Altima has definitely moved upmarket but it's still not a luxury car.

I think everyone would be more forgiving if the G25 was cheaper, more fuel efficient, or didn't lose quite as much power vs. the G37. If any one of those things were the case it would make a lot more sense. As it is, I suppose it's not a bad car and why not save a few grand if you don't care about the loss of power, but it just doesn't seem worth it.

 

[theeedude]

I too think price should be under the symbolic $30K. That said, it doesn't really save Nissan much if any money to make a VQ25HR over a VQ37HR, it's just different bore, so much of the hardware is the same.

Seems like it's capable of some impressive MPG numbers:
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/03/nissan_v6_skyli.html

This car is already sold in Japan, (Nissan Skyline 250GT), maybe someone has done a comparo vs G37 (370GT) both in terms of performance and MPG.

I think long term, it may be a good idea for Nissan to drop the VQ37HR in favor of a turbo VQ25HRDET pushing ~300hp for the high end model.

 

[theeedude]

Went to infiniti.ru, where they sell both G25 and G37
http://www.infiniti.ru/G/featuresspecifications/specifications.html

Here is the city/hwy/combined mileage info (in L/100km) :
G37 16.8/9.7/12.3
G25 13.8/8.1/10.2

So we are talking about ~20 percent; mileage improvement to go with the lower purchase price.

 

[StageLeft]

RWD is important, because it feels more refined, no torque steer, better looking proportions, better balance in corners. Even if someone never uses more than 200 horsepower, they still take corners in everyday driving, so RWD handling is something you use all the time.

You can't really say this car is for people who don't need horsepower and then talk about its performance characteristics. Modern cars can throw well over 250 horsepower into a FWD car without torque steer being a huge problem unless you have carpal tunnel wrists and balance around a corner is only meaningul if you're going pretty hard. But if you're going pretty hard chances are you want the extra 110 horsepower of the G37. So either this is for people who don't care about performance, in which case it could make some inkling of sense (though ultimately not much) or they have to get the 37.

Dealership experience will be better than Nissan for the once every 6-12 months you're in getting an oil change.

Even if the mileage is 20% better I would not care that much, you're talking a small cost as a percentage of the purchase over time.

 

[theeedude]

You can't really say this car is for people who don't need horsepower and then talk about its performance characteristics. Modern cars can throw well over 250 horsepower into a FWD car without torque steer being a huge problem unless you have carpal tunnel wrists and balance around a corner is only meaningul if you're going pretty hard. But if you're going pretty hard chances are you want the extra 110 horsepower of the G37. So either this is for people who don't care about performance, in which case it could make some inkling of sense (though ultimately not much) or they have to get the 37.

Dealership experience will be better than Nissan for the once every 6-12 months you're in getting an oil change.

Even if the mileage is 20% better I would not care that much, you're talking a small cost as a percentage of the purchase over time.

To me it is more exciting to work a smaller engine hard and use handling to maintain speed through corners than having a big engine that you can't open the taps on public roads without looking like a fool or being reckless. I think for everyday driving on public roads you can only use about 200 horsepower for a car of G35's size, so the question you have to ask yourself is would you rather be listening to a 2.5L engine scream at 7K rpm or a 3.7L engine burble at 4.5K rpm.
The big problem with G25 for me is not its engine, it's the lack of a manual gearbox to have fun with the engine.

 

[Imported]

If it really is a 1mpg improvement.. massive fail.

 

[zerocool84]

Why is that contradictory? Upscale is not just a function of the badge or power. You could completely debadge a G25, and it will still be a more upscale product than a completely debadged Altima.
RWD is important, because it feels more refined, no torque steer, better looking proportions, better balance in corners. Even if someone never uses more than 200 horsepower, they still take corners in everyday driving, so RWD handling is something you use all the time. Dealership experience is also better than Nissan's. There are many more aspects to luxury than power and badge.

lol

First you contradict yourself by saying that someone like a real-estate agent would want a nice car then say RWD is more important than power in a non-sports car cus you take corners every day. You are NOT going to be cornering like you're racing in every day driving. You Aare more likely to use the power in everyday driving by needing to pass on the highway or merge onto the freeway. Plus just because something is RWD doesn't automatically make it handle better than a FWD car.

 

[theeedude]

lol

First you contradict yourself by saying that someone like a real-estate agent would want a nice car then say RWD is more important than power in a non-sports car cus you take corners every day. You are NOT going to be cornering like you're racing in every day driving. You Aare more likely to use the power in everyday driving by needing to pass on the highway or merge onto the freeway. Plus just because something is RWD doesn't automatically make it handle better than a FWD car.

You don't need 300+ hp to merge onto an interstate, there are plenty of I4 family cars with ~160hp doing that just fine, ~220 hp is more than enough.
Handling is not about racing, it's about holding speed through corners in everyday driving, if you car has good handling and grip, you go into corners with less braking, you waste less momentum, so you don't need a lot of power to come out of a corner fast. It is something you can use every day in every corner, unlike 300+ HP, which you won't.

 

[zerocool84]

You don't need 300+ hp to merge onto an interstate, there are plenty of I4 family cars with ~160hp doing that just fine, ~220 hp is more than enough.
Handling is not about racing, it's about holding speed through corners in everyday driving, if you car has good handling and grip, you go into corners with less braking, you waste less momentum, so you don't need a lot of power to come out of a corner fast. It is something you can use every day in every corner, unlike 300+ HP, which you won't.

So you take every corner like you're racing but not the straights??? A green arrow to turn left and you try to take it at 40mph? You keep contradicting yourself. You say you don't need any power more than 200 but need a car that can turn street corners well. lol

 

[exdeath]

You don't need 300+ hp to merge onto an interstate

You do if you don't want to have to stop on the on ramp and wait when everyone else has 300+ HP cars and won't let you over. When I drive I want to do what I need to do with minimal effort and minimal inconvenience to other drivers, not sit and wait to get crumbs and leftovers after the tumble weeds pass.

It is something you can use every day in every corner, unlike 300+ HP, which you won't.

I have way more than that and I use it every chance I get. And you're wrong about cornering being more useful in daily driving. Any time I need to go fast it's always in a straight line, I've never had anybody try to cut me off or get in my lane or fly by me going through a left hand turn lane at 60 mph. No, it's always on merges or on ramps on at stop lights in straight lines. Cornering is just not a big deal in day to day driving in the US where streets run N-S and E-W in parallel and perpendicular lines and have stop lights every other block.

 

[theeedude]

So you take every corner like you're racing but not the straights??? A green arrow to turn left and you try to take it at 40mph? You keep contradicting yourself. You say you don't need any power more than 200 but need a car that can turn street corners well. lol

I try to take a corner at the highest speed the car will take it without skidding. No, I don't floor it when light turns green. It's boring to me. To me, the fun and the skill is in the cornering, not accelerating.
I rarely even rev my engine over 4000rpm, and I only have a 2.3L 160hp.
Not contradictory to me, I am not racing anyone.

 

[theeedude]

You do if you don't want to have to stop on the on ramp and wait when everyone else has 300+ HP cars and won't let you over. When I drive I want to do what I need to do with minimal effort and minimal inconvenience to other drivers, not sit and wait to get crumbs and leftovers after the tumble weeds pass.



I have way more than that and I use it every chance I get. And you're wrong about cornering being more useful in daily driving. Any time I need to go fast it's always in a straight line, I've never had anybody try to cut me off or get in my lane or fly by me going through a left hand turn lane at 60 mph. No, it's always on merges or on ramps on at stop lights in straight lines. Cornering is just not a big deal in day to day driving in the US where streets run N-S and E-W in parallel and perpendicular lines and have stop lights every other block.

Most cars on the freeway have < 220 HP of the G25, and they got onto the freeway somehow. I can carry so much speed through the on-ramp that I usually merge faster than the speed of traffic and proceed immediately to the fast lane, without using more than ~120 hp to do so. If you cannot go fast with 220 hp on public roads, you don't know how to drive. That said, if you like power, more power to you, no pun intended. The G37 is not going to go away, so people who want the extra horsepower are free to pay for it. But with G25, those people who really don't need or want more than 220 are no longer forced to pay for something they don't use. It's a win win.

 

[zerocool84]

Most cars on the freeway have < 220 HP of the G25, and they got onto the freeway somehow. I can carry so much speed through the on-ramp that I usually merge faster than the speed of traffic and proceed immediately to the fast lane, without using more than ~120 hp to do so. If you cannot go fast with 220 hp on public roads, you don't know how to drive. That said, if you like power, more power to you, no pun intended. The G37 is not going to go away, so people who want the extra horsepower are free to pay for it. But with G25, those people who really don't need or want more than 220 are no longer forced to pay for something they don't use. It's a win win.

Of course people don't need 300hp but what you're saying is that it's important for a regular non-performance car, which this is, to be able to take intersection turns like it's a race. I'm really glad people don't drive like you every day cus you're more likely to crash when taking a turn fast then just accelerating fast.

 

[Throckmorton]

Since the year 2000 If we're honest this is a car getting 4 hp less than a decade old Maxima and getting about the same mileage. I know it's grossly unfair to compare ANYTHING with a 5th gen Maxima, but there you have it.

IIRC the damn Maxima started the horsepower wars.

Now instead of channeling tech advancements into awesome gas mileage, we have 300hp family sedans. But are people any happier than when they had 200hp? No, they're just used to a different standard