Yawnnnnn we should change our way of life and put metal detectors and bomb sniffing dogs at every strip mall in the country because a deranged individual happens to be Muslim.
So this must be the latest Leftwing craze:
When you have nothing to say, say something really dumb.
I doubt this tactic will be successful... just a thought.
I see nothing either left winged or crazed about his remark. Anecdotal evidence is dismissed in logical discourse every day as a matter of course.
Jaskalas
Lifer
- Jun 23, 2004
- 35,837
- 10,141
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I whole heartedly agree on the bolded part, more or less with the rest. Now if only we would agree that they share a common illness that we must confront.
Many here would deny that entirely and explain to us that it?s all entirely peaceful, when the writing is in blood on our walls. It is written in genocide such as Darfur, written amidst many killings world wide, committed for different reasons by different people, but connected by a single ideology that we must remove.
Tell that to the guys who bombed London and Madrid, as they've done that to "avenge" the suffering of their fellow muslims in Iraq.
Ironically, the suffering is caused by muslims, but that is just a little fact ignored by those who believe in this concept of the Ummah.
- Aug 22, 2001
- 32,067
- 32,593
- 146
I'll take fear-mongering for $1000 Alex. Paranoia and fear will make you think enemies are everywhere. For the eleventy billionth time, you should be more afraid of driving on public roadways everyday, then of all the "threats" to you&your loved ones well being, that the media is pummeling you with.
There are numerous different reasons, the nutjobs who do these horrific acts, declare as the motivation. I'll just check the religion box, to go along with many others, among them, in any and all combinations-
Tired of being bullied.
Just plain, out of nowhere, Batsh!t crazy, period.
Snapped because of job related stresses.
Fight with, cheating of S.O. causing them to snap.
Substance abuse related melt-down.
Hell, look at the Urban dictionary definition of Postal Text Should I be afraid of my Mailman too? :roll:
Random, personal meltdowns are one thing. The possibility that there could be a more coherent, planned meltdown based on religious ideology is another.
Seems to me you're being extreme. On one end, you'll have people wanting Muslim crackdowns and racist checks and balances. On the other extreme end -YOU- you'll have people doing and saying nothing... Ignoring it, probably out of political correctness which ties the brain down.
In the middle you'll have what I believe: "Something to be aware of."
Here's an update on the Utah shooting:
Trolley Square killer had violent juvenile history
Definitely appears to be a troubled kid.
You can use this situation as a springboard to talk about a lot of things. Youth violence, culture, growing up in bad environments, and many many others. Because this kid happened to be Muslim, it adds another interesting dynamic, and it shouldn't be dismissed as fear-mongering or bigotry. It should provide an opportunity to have calm, open discussions of related issues.
One of the hallmarks of Radical Islam is that they want as much as possible to have a native population in the target country as their face. That way they can call anyone from outside, who attempts to help, "occupiers" (refer back to recent news articles about the peacekeepers for Somalia). It also makes their activities look like an internal struggle rather than an invasion.
One way to look at Radical Islam is seeing it as a religious cult (of Islamic Fascism). We are seeing recruiting activities within our prisons that is modeled on how the drug gangs work. This often means targeting those who are vulnerable (i.e. prisoners then fatherless boys within the intercity) as possible recruits (again the drug gang model). Islam is portrayed as being stronger with a sense of family. Look at what the drug gangs provide: family, a sense of "coolness", protection from being a victim, source of money. Radical Islam can do all of that.
Also look at our suburban culture where we have numerous school shootings. We have too many young men who seem to feel victimized. They get into groups, like being Goth, so that they can "get back at family and peers" which gets them picked on even more. Then they strike out, violently. What if these young people are targeted for recruitment by Radical Islam? How many of them would make good suicide bombers?
It is very possible that if we do see this activity come to US soil, as so many predict, it will be at the hands of our own kids. It's all about exploitation. I don't think we need the kind of open radicalism like they have in the UK and other places.
The key is to have open minds and be aware... and if there is jihadist evidence, then we calmly and rationally take simple actions to help minimize and mitigate the problems that can arise. Thankfully, this doesn't seem to be the case in the Utah incident.
Trolley Square killer had violent juvenile history
Definitely appears to be a troubled kid.
You can use this situation as a springboard to talk about a lot of things. Youth violence, culture, growing up in bad environments, and many many others. Because this kid happened to be Muslim, it adds another interesting dynamic, and it shouldn't be dismissed as fear-mongering or bigotry. It should provide an opportunity to have calm, open discussions of related issues.
One of the hallmarks of Radical Islam is that they want as much as possible to have a native population in the target country as their face. That way they can call anyone from outside, who attempts to help, "occupiers" (refer back to recent news articles about the peacekeepers for Somalia). It also makes their activities look like an internal struggle rather than an invasion.
One way to look at Radical Islam is seeing it as a religious cult (of Islamic Fascism). We are seeing recruiting activities within our prisons that is modeled on how the drug gangs work. This often means targeting those who are vulnerable (i.e. prisoners then fatherless boys within the intercity) as possible recruits (again the drug gang model). Islam is portrayed as being stronger with a sense of family. Look at what the drug gangs provide: family, a sense of "coolness", protection from being a victim, source of money. Radical Islam can do all of that.
Also look at our suburban culture where we have numerous school shootings. We have too many young men who seem to feel victimized. They get into groups, like being Goth, so that they can "get back at family and peers" which gets them picked on even more. Then they strike out, violently. What if these young people are targeted for recruitment by Radical Islam? How many of them would make good suicide bombers?
It is very possible that if we do see this activity come to US soil, as so many predict, it will be at the hands of our own kids. It's all about exploitation. I don't think we need the kind of open radicalism like they have in the UK and other places.
The key is to have open minds and be aware... and if there is jihadist evidence, then we calmly and rationally take simple actions to help minimize and mitigate the problems that can arise. Thankfully, this doesn't seem to be the case in the Utah incident.
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
- 11,521
- 0
- 76
very well said. there are number of studies that indicate membership in Jihadist groups is very fraternal in nature. Many, or most, of the "recruits" join in order to belong to something larger than themselves; and to seek out a supportive brotherhood of sorts.
Their bonds grow very strong, very quickly; one thing leads to another, and they forget who they once were as individuals. All of the "love" and friendships that they experience become their sole purpose for living.. and ultimately, dying.
It's VERY similar to the reason a lot of young men and women join the US military, fraternities, the Boy Scouts, or sports teams. The difference, of course, is the fanatical nature of their underlying ideologies.
that said, it's very sad to see American youth committing random acts of violence for any reason... AFAIC, it's a trend that needs just as much attention as terrorism.
Yes of course. We totally agree. Where you and I part company, I think, is in what we mean by ideology. You are focused on the evil in the other, in this case, the evil in the radical Muslim world that uses parts of their religion to promote a justification to kill. This is totally sick, in my opinion. You, however, do the same thing. You are all hot to kill them because they want to kill you. You use their ideology to justify the exact same thing never noticing how similar you are. In fact they started their thinking up for the same reason, that they were being unjustly killed. What you do is perpetrate forever violence in the world, a never ending cycle of revenge killing.
In short we all have the same disease and Jihad, real Jihad, is the war against the self that seeks revenge. It is why Christ illuminated the way by going up on the cross to be crucified. Only the crucifixion of hate, the self denial of hate, can save us. It is only forgiveness that can end the cycle. And one can only forgive when one experiences crucifixion, that is to actually experience all of ones grief and pain. To feel grief and pain is to end them and to awaken in heaven. In heaven there is no fear and no hate. The kingdom of heaven is within you.
Naturally you will protest that none of this matters if you are killed by the insane and that therefore you must first kill them so that later you can be free, but you emphasize all the wrong aspects of this truth. You want to jump right into the madness that possessed your enemy instead of working more patiently to foster love and trust, to call to the part of your enemy that also can find the same heaven.
You cannot kill evil. To kill evil is to feed it and make it grow. That is the wrong path. Only good will can destroy evil by working to change evil from within. One can protect one's self from evil with force if there is no other way but this is a last resort and not a first. Blindness, of course, always makes violence seem like one's only resort so real judgment is required. Judgment flies out the window when there is hate and fear.
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
- 11,521
- 0
- 76
The primary difference, which you fail to recognize, or admit to, is that they kill indiscriminately - including innocent men, women, and children - while we target them directly.
They appear to celebrate all death, while we sincerely regret any loss of innocent lives.
And for some of us, that right there is enough to justify our own feelings of superiority. It is ultimately what makes us the "good guys;" and they the "evil ones."
Death is never anything to be celebrated, yet our enemies do so at every opportunity.
Do you notice that your focus is on the good 'us' watching out for the bad them coming in and corrupting our nothing wrong system?
How about we do something about all the mental illness and violence in our society that foreign terrorists may find a means to exploit as you fear. You fail to understand that you life in a sick world, one in which you carry the disease. We are all filled with self hate and are projecting it out there. It's all well and good to focus on the enemy out there because it's lazy and cowardly to do so. The real warrior is somebody who does battle with him or her self. The world is only made better one person at a time.
Wrong, the suffering was caused by America, not the muslims. Their vengence does not mean such an ummah exist, unless ummah is like jihad, where it's supposed to be within the individual. You're obviously biased against Muslims so it makes it difficult to take your opinions seriously.
EDIT: Your dumb assertion is akin to an arsonist blaming his deaths on the individuals sho stampeded out of a burning building. It's also akin to an individual spreading a vicious lie and blaming the recipients of such lie for their own problem.
I think that's the key here. As soon as it's a Muslim doing something, everyone starts freaking out...but really it's the actions that need our attention just as much, if not more so, than the motivations. Random violence is concerning whether the person in question was drawn into a radical Muslim group, or is a loner who plays a lot of video games.
Now obviously there is a need to examine the motivations, but even there I think we need to look past the obvious. You're absolutely right about the jihadist groups, but I think the more interesting question is WHY the members are drawn to those particular groups. There is some evidence to suggest that the typical Muslim radical was NOT radical before joining the group, that the particularly wacko brand of Islam the terrorist groups follow was learned as part of the group. Maybe it's something as simple as a lack of options, the same reason inner city teenagers join gangs instead of sports teams or the boy scouts.
All the time. You're just the latest in a long line who hear some sort of god in my words, you clever devil.
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
- 11,521
- 0
- 76
All very true!
As with street gangs, evidence also suggests that once they join the Jihadist groups, they quickly become afraid to leave the group - not out of fear of reprisal; rather, it's their fear of being alone again that keeps them around. Their brotherly bonds eventually become enough motivation to "follow" the group, regardless of direction - even as the actions of the group become more and more extreme!
In this way, even those who were never predisposed to violence, or those who have doubts, eventually involve themselves in extreme acts of violence.
The scary part is that all of these motivations and factors are very much known to our enemies; and they wield them with great effectiveness. There are certainly plenty of young, lonely, and impressionable young men the world over...
I also think that's a pretty compelling argument to go after the guys at the top. I don't think they are going to run out of potential terrorists any time soon, but I doubt a bunch of losers are going to become terrorists without the funding, and the motivation, provided by the people who really run these terrorist organizations.
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