Indianapolis auto workers drive UAW executives out of meeting

[nobodyknows]

OK you can have slightly better than one half of your pay and keep a job

OR

We will close the plant and you will get nothing.


Hmmmm. Tough choice here.

Being given the opportunity to die quickly or die slowly is a tough choice.

 

[waggy]

So basically, these idiots rejected the opportunity to continue working for the government (GM), in exchange for free money from the government (unemployment).

I say that they should be ineligible for UE insurance. They were given the chance to continue employment with some pretty damn good incentives, and decided that they would rather be jobless. The rest of us shouldn't be paying for their stupidity.

i agree.

fucking greedy fucktards.

 

[nobodyknows]

So, now that the UAW owns a large portion of GM, it appears they've realized (if the article is to be believed) that the wage and benefits packages they've bargained for through the years are a drag on the corporation. Really interesting times we live in. The angle of the workers turning against the organization that purports to represent them is of course priceless.

Out here we've had unions that were basically controlled by the company for some time.

So are the union officials and everyone else going to take their 50% paycut "for the team" also? Or was is just the blue collar workers expected to make the sacrafice?

 

[lothar]

Being given the opportunity to die quickly or die slowly is a tough choice.

So if you were a worker at this plant, how would you have voted?

 

[Mursilis]

Being given the opportunity to die quickly or die slowly is a tough choice.

Everyone's dying slowly - it's called life. But I'm sure all these union workers have tons of marketable skills (after all, they were insulted by the idea of a wage cut for people of their considerable skill set), so they should have no problem finding other, much better employment. They'll probably qualify for unemployment, but they shouldn't.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

From the World Socialist Web Site

Indianapolis auto workers drive UAW executives out of meeting



So, now that the UAW owns a large portion of GM, it appears they've realized (if the article is to be believed) that the wage and benefits packages they've bargained for through the years are a drag on the corporation. Really interesting times we live in. The angle of the workers turning against the organization that purports to represent them is of course priceless.

I'd like to see the spin on this from another source, but I'm too lazy to search for it.

it ain't being easy on the other side is it UAW.
you've fucked yourselves. good for you.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Once GM closes it and lays off the workers (or transfers them if they're lucky), I wonder if Norman will come back, buy the plant for pennies on the dollar, and THEN hire people.

 

[Pulsar]

In other news, GM takes US taxpayers money and opens a plant in Mexico.

Yep, and I'm glad they did. It's the difference between staying in business and going out of business due to pay packages like at the above plant.

So, what choice are you offering up? Continue in non-profitability?

 

[boomerang]

My wife's nephew is a supervisor for Chrysler. He had the news on as he was getting ready for work one morning and caught probably the first broadcast about the guys caught drinking and smoking pot on their lunch break. He said he stood there watching and that the majority of the guys worked for him. He said all their names out loud as they were pictured.

Fortunately, he had been complaining to his superiors for some time about the behavior of these guys and many more under his control. The system is rigged in favor of the workers so he got nowhere. His ass was covered though.

I joked with him that these guys they caught were actually the good guys because they waited until lunch to get their buzz on while the rest of them were doing it right on the job. It was a joke and an obvious exaggeration, but he said there was a lot of truth to it.

We're not going to survive with the unions getting strengthened the way they are right now. The system is broken and if it can't be scrapped, it needs to be severely contained for now. This problem goes way, way beyond auto workers.

 

[Engineer]

In other news, GM takes US taxpayers money and opens a plant in Mexico.

And designs/produces new Buick in Germany.

And opens new plant in China.

And closes X # of US plants.

 

[Throckmorton]

Hey, the workers will get what they want. They refuse to take a pay cut to more reasonable levels... now they will take a 100% pay cut. Good thinking, idiots. I guess $0 per hour in their mind is better than $15 per hour.

They'll get unemployment

 

[bfdd]

My wife's nephew is a supervisor for Chrysler. He had the news on as he was getting ready for work one morning and caught probably the first broadcast about the guys caught drinking and smoking pot on their lunch break. He said he stood there watching and that the majority of the guys worked for him. He said all their names out load as they were pictured.

Fortunately, he had been complaining to his superiors for some time about the behavior of these guys and many more under his control. The system is rigged in favor of the workers so he got nowhere. His ass was covered though.

I joked with him that these guys they caught were actually the good guys because they waited until lunch to get their buzz on while the rest of them were doing it right on the job. It was a joke and an obvious exaggeration, but he said there was a lot of truth to it.

We're not going to survive with the unions getting strengthened the way they are right now. The system is broken and if it can't be scrapped, it needs to be severely contained for now. This problem goes way, way beyond auto workers.

I've said it numerous times before, we need to get all laws and regulations regarding unions out. Unions pride themselves in having strength in numbers, but now a days they hardly need that. They just have to cry to the gubment and they're protected. Since when do we as Americans need more than the 1st amendment to assemble and associate? I used to be a union worker, I like that most the people who try to argue against this with me aren't and never have been.

 

[nobodyknows]

Everyone's dying slowly - it's called life. But I'm sure all these union workers have tons of marketable skills (after all, they were insulted by the idea of a wage cut for people of their considerable skill set), so they should have no problem finding other, much better employment. They'll probably qualify for unemployment, but they shouldn't.

I'm guessing you're mentally challenged in the empathy dept. so let me help you. Some are dying much faster then others, aren't they. If you knew you had to go,would you rather die a long, painful death or get bindsided by a car doing 100mph?

 

[nobodyknows]

So if you were a worker at this plant, how would you have voted?

If I were a worker at this plant I suspect I would have either already left, or would have been saving as much money as possible since they were told the plant would bve closing.

If the later were the case then I would hold out for more then 50% of what I was making. Of course it's an easy choice for me because I have never had a job that I would have been able to survive on at 50% of what my wages were. Hell, with two of us working (overtime to boot) we many times came down to our last $5 by payday.

 

[JSt0rm]

50% is steep. I would tell them to fuck off to and take night classes or whatever to make sure when it shut I can move into a CAREER.

 

[lothar]

If I were a worker at this plant I suspect I would have either already left, or would have been saving as much money as possible since they were told the plant would be closing.

If the later were the case then I would hold out for more then 50% of what I was making. Of course it's an easy choice for me because I have never had a job that I would have been able to survive on at 50% of what my wages were. Hell, with two of us working (overtime to boot) we many times came down to our last $5 by payday.

That's a rational choice.
Unfortunately, the people at that plant did neither.

The people who voted "no" are idiots.
(I'm assuming the smart people voted "yes", or already left the plant before getting the chance to vote.)

 

[lothar]

50% is steep. I would tell them to fuck off to and take night classes or whatever to make sure when it shut I can move into a CAREER.

So your plan is to start doing night classes after they announced they would close the plant in 3-6 months?
How much night classes can one do in 3-6 months after the plant closure notification?

If you tell them to fuck off, you better have another job offer in your hand or be a rich person with money saved in the bank and not be a person that lives paycheck to paycheck.

Your plan is a huge gamble because you don't know(unless you're one of the company execs) if the plant would be closed 3 months after they made the announcement or 2 years after.

 

[Red Dawn]

If I owned a company I wouldn't want to have a work force that just took a 50% pay cut. I'd rather just fire them all and start over as having a bunch of disgruntled employees would play hell on productivity

 

[StageLeft]

This is EXACTLY what I said last year (?) when the UAW took partial ownership of GM. At that point they were the employer so the them vs us was going to be meaningless and impossible to keep in place. And here we have it.

If I owned a company I wouldn't want to have a work force that just took a 50% pay cut. I'd rather just fire them all and start over as having a bunch of disgruntled employees would play hell on productivity

Yeah if union workers are lazy now wait until you cut their pay in half.

 

[lothar]

If I owned a company I wouldn't want to have a work force that just took a 50% pay cut. I'd rather just fire them all and start over as having a bunch of disgruntled employees would play hell on productivity

Not every employee that took a pay cut would take it out on the company by cutting productivity at an equal percentage to the wage reduction.
Even if your salary is cut by 50%, but you take it out on the company by cutting production by 20%, it's still a win for the company(which will eventually replace you with someone else since you're now being unproductive).

It costs money to train brand new workers.
It makes more sense to do the pay cut, and if there are any bad workers after that fact, fire them while keeping the good ones.

I also assume that management has already taken that into account in their calculations.
ex: Maybe they wanted to cut only 40%, but assumed employees will be disgruntled and produce less so they creamed an extra 10% on the top.

 

[Mursilis]

This is EXACTLY what I said last year (?) when the UAW took partial ownership of GM. At that point they were the employer so the them vs us was going to be meaningless and impossible to keep in place. And here we have it.

But now they've got the gov't to carry them, so not much is going to change. Look at this situation - we've got workers who are turning down jobs, and will be allowed to collect unemployment. That's completely backward.

 

[StageLeft]

It makes more sense to do the pay cut, and if there are any bad workers after that fact, fire them while keeping the good ones.

If those good ones are really any good they'll leave all by themselves and get a new job elsewhere.

 

[Red Dawn]

This is EXACTLY what I said last year (?) when the UAW took partial ownership of GM. At that point they were the employer so the them vs us was going to be meaningless and impossible to keep in place. And here we have it.Yeah if union workers are lazy now wait until you cut their pay in half.

Yeah they'd probably be as lazy as salaried white collar workers posting on the internet on their bosses dime about how lazy Union Workers are.

 

[lothar]

This is EXACTLY what I said last year (?) when the UAW took partial ownership of GM. At that point they were the employer so the them vs us was going to be meaningless and impossible to keep in place. And here we have it.Yeah if union workers are lazy now wait until you cut their pay in half.

It would be interesting to see how that would play out at GM and Chrysler.
"Meet the new boss, same as the old."

Chrysler is particularly interesting since the UAW there owns a 66% majority stake in the new company.

 

[lothar]

If those good ones are really any good they'll leave all by themselves and get a new job elsewhere.

If there's a job available elsewhere in this market, yes.
If not, no.

This is a GM plant. Where are they going to run to? Ford? Chrysler? Toyota(anti-union but they pay the same amount in total compensation)? Honda(anti-union but they pay the same amount in total compensation)?
Which of those companies are hiring?