Indiana GOP *not* focused on economic/fiscal issues, apparently

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
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... in what comes as no surprise to me:

http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/48aa4fe1f83b4161a98e25ad28a02351/IN-XGR-Same-Sex-Marriage/

INDIANAPOLIS — Republican lawmakers in Indiana have resumed their push for a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage.

A GOP-ruled House committee voted 8-4 along party lines Monday to advance the proposal, which now moves to the full House for consideration.

Indiana law already bans same-sex marriage, but amendment supporters say changing the constitution would add another layer of protection to traditional marriage.

The proposed amendment states that only marriage between one man and one woman is valid in Indiana, and prohibits civil unions by stating that a legal status "substantially similar" to marriage for unmarried people is not valid.

Constitutional amendments must go through two separate Legislatures before being put to a public vote, and an amendment banning gay marriage passed the General Assembly in 2005 when Republicans controlled the House and Senate. But in 2006, Democrats won control of the House and the proposal never cleared that chamber again, although some Democrats support the amendment.

This year — with Republicans back in control of the House and Senate — the amendment is back. And the arguments the House committee heard Monday were largely the same as in previous years.

Amendment supporters said traditional heterosexual marriage is best for raising children, and stress that the amendment is needed to prevent courts from overturning the Indiana state law that already forbids gay marriage.

Rep. Dave Cheatham, a Democrat from North Vernon who is one of the sponsors of the amendment, said marriage is so important that the state's constitution should be amended to protect it.

"This is a foundational, fundamental issue," he said.

Micah Clark, a director with the American Family Association of Indiana, said homosexuals are the minority and shouldn't have the right to redefine marriage for the people of Indiana.

"If any two people can marry, then marriage does not mean much," he said.

Opponents said the amendment seeks to write discrimination into the state's constitution.

Jessica Wilch, the president of Indiana Equality, said the resolution's provision barring civil unions would strip any hope of recognition of committed couples to enjoy some of the rights that married couples take for granted.

Cynthia Conley, an assistant professor at Ball State University, said state lawmakers were wasting time by debating an amendment to forbid something that is already forbidden by state law. Conley, who said she married her partner in Canada, said she and her wife shouldn't have to explain to her 11-year-old daughter that legislative leaders are placing intolerance at the top of their agenda.

"She, no less than any other Hoosier child, represents our future," Conley said of her daughter. "She deserves to have parents who are not treated like second class citizens."

Some Democrats suggested that even debating the amendment was nothing more than a political ploy.

"There are many huge economic issues that we could be dealing with," said Rep. Ed DeLaney, D-Indianapolis. "It's an unfortunate waste of our time."

If the full House approves the proposed amendment as expected, it would move to the Republican-led Senate, where it has met little resistance in previous years. If both chambers pass the proposal, it would have to pass again in 2013 or 2014 in order to get on the ballot in 2014.

I'm also not surprised to see a few Democrats support this initiative, but the GOP sure isn't doing anything to stop it.
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
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While this amendment is a silly waste of time and is probably just a political stunt, Indiana is in good financial shape compared to other states. What they need to focus on, IMO, is bringing more companies into Indiana.

Mitch Daniels has done a great job of keeping the state in the black with spending cuts and reserve cash without having to raise taxes. I'd really like to see them bring in more businesses since Indiana is such a cheap place to do business.

At any rate, I don't look for the amendment to gain much traction.
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
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Why are they even bothering with it, then?

My guess is to give the appearance that they're catering to the religious elements of society. Also, a law on the books can be challenged in the court system while a constitutional amendment can't, though I am not 100% sure if a state constitutional amendment can be reviewed in the federal courts. I'm sure an AT lawyer can answer that for us.

EDIT: To clarify, I think a state amendment can be reviewed but would need to violate or conflict with the US Constitution to be thrown out.
 
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zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
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My guess is to give the appearance that they're catering to the religious elements of society.

They shouldn't be catering to those people. They should be focused on improving the economy and fiscal situation, not getting the government involved in social matters.

Also, a law on the books can be challenged in the court system while a constitutional amendment can't, though I am not 100% sure if a state constitutional amendment can be reviewed in the federal courts. I'm sure an AT lawyer can answer that for us.

Perfect... stupid laws should be challenged and eliminated. Constitutions should only be amended for the most serious of needs.. and this isn't one.
 
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IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
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They shouldn't be catering to those people. They should be focused on improving the economy and fiscal situation, not getting the government involved in social matters.

Politicans pander to voters all the time. It isn't anything new.

Perfect... stupid laws should be challenged and eliminated. Constitutions should only be amended for the most serious of needs.. and this isn't one.

I'm not passing judgment on what they're doing one way or another, I'm just stating the reasoning. As I said, I am not 100% sure if a federal court can overturn an amendment to a state constitution unless the state amendment directly contradicts something in the US Constitution, which would obviously violate the 10th amendment.

I agree that the Constitution should only be amended in serious cases, but I'd also argue that amending the Constitution is preferable to twisting the language of the Constitution to fit an agenda (ie, health care reform).
 

Zargon

Lifer
Nov 3, 2009
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I didnt think IND was in financial turmoil so I wouldnt expect them to be doing budget this and that

but its stupid yeah
 

PeshakJang

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2010
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Illinois' legislature is basically doing all the work for us as far as improving IN's economy...
 

crownjules

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2005
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Micah Clark, a director with the American Family Association of Indiana, said homosexuals are the minority and shouldn't have the right to redefine marriage for the people of Indiana.

So is a man and a woman not going to be able to marry now? Because if not then in no way are homosexuals "redefining" what marriage is to the majority of Americans. This perceptive individual sure is twisting reality, because it seems to me like the majority is trying to redefine marriage for the minority. Freedom for you and me my friends!* It's also another example of religion seeping in to politics.

* - Unless you are different from me, in which case please accept second-class citizen status.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
53,776
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Illinois' legislature is basically doing all the work for us as far as improving IN's economy...

Nobody is going to be moving to IN chasing a marginal tax benefit. That won't fall as flat however as NJ's governor coming over here and trying to entice huge companies to move to his state that has far higher taxes than anywhere else....oddly none were the least bit interested.
 

Scotteq

Diamond Member
Apr 10, 2008
5,276
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Why are they even bothering with it, then?


Probably because they decided (or some consultant told them) that this stuff is what their constituents want and if they want to be (re)elected, they'll run this up and make a lot of noise.

PanderPanderPander...
 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
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ostif.org
Why are they even bothering with it, then?

Because its in the bible belt?

You cant run on a platform of "we will cut taxes for the rich and give corporations every advantage possible".

You need to get votes, and then pander to your rich true masters.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
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They shouldn't be catering to those people. They should be focused on improving the economy and fiscal situation, not getting the government involved in social matters.
That depends on what you think the role of government really is. Is the government responsible for planning and managing the economy? Is it responsible for enforcing ethical principles (or moral, depending on who you ask)? Or is it responsible for protecting the rights of its citizens and not all of this other crap?
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
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50% of hetero-marriages (well those that do marry)end in divorce. Safe politics to defend a dying institution, right? WHY not then open up the choices a bit?
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,018
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Something that exceeds at nothing except failure (government) shouldn't multi-task, lest there be multiple failures.

It's funny you say this, because a "super smart political guy" told us all once (well, it was when a Dem Congress and its Media was wasting time on 8 fired lawyers that served at the pleasure of POTUS) that Congress, aka Politicians, can indeed multitask. Years later now, absolutely none of the major national issues have had any real progress made on them...

...so it seems that you and I are in complete agreement on the time management skills of our Politicians...

Chuck
 
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cubby1223

Lifer
May 24, 2004
13,518
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Something that exceeds at nothing except failure (government) shouldn't multi-task, lest there be multiple failures.

Did you criticize the Illinois government for spending time putting into law a same-sex civil unions bill, instead of voting on a jobs bill to fix the economy?

Is it so difficult for you to just cut to the chase and create a thread that says "I don't agree with a gay marriage ban in a state I don't live in"? :p
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
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Did you criticize the Illinois government for spending time putting into law a same-sex civil unions bill, instead of voting on a jobs bill to fix the economy?

No, IL's civil unions bill (which applies to heterosexuals too, btw) is the *one* good thing they've done. If government is to have a place recognizing and incentivizing beneficial social arrangements it should recognize all such arrangements, not only some.

Is it so difficult for you to just cut to the chase and create a thread that says "I don't agree with a gay marriage ban in a state I don't live in"?

Is it so difficult for you to find other threads to post in that don't annoy you so much? :p
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,018
37
91
The Politicians could solve this gay "marriage" issue permanently, by making the Fed and states recognize only Civil Unions as the legal way of being joined. You get married in a church, but don't get the legal civil union, no joint filing, no legal benefits, sorry.

This way, gays can "marry" each other all they want, and straights can keep getting married like they always have.

The only difference will be gays actually being able to tell people they're married, instead of b1tching about how they can't, and most people smiling and thinking So you got a Civil Union but aren't a man and woman, so you're not really married, but good for you...

The End.

Chuck