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Indian Institute of Technology: Best College in the World
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chocolatekid
Banned
what happened to this thread?
chocolatekid
Banned
no sh!t.
pillage2001
Lifer
ok ur just neffing
WinkOsmosis
Banned
Because I'm Indian and it pisses me off. I'm embarassed to say I'm Indian. I always say I'm Trinidadian. That's like you just saying you're American.
mAdD INDIAN
Diamond Member
what? how can you be embarrassed to be Indian? Yeah they do memorize a lot of things in school, but they learn a lot too. I guess that's why they are great programmers, researchers, engineers, etc.. The schooling there emphasis on work/study ethic where hard work and doing your best is emphasised. In Canada, its good enough to just get by. That is a wrong type of ethic to teach the young generation.
Jellomancer: I hope you talk to your family members (here and in India) so you get a greater insight on Indian and the Indian people.
Lots of Indians here in Silicon Valley. Smart people. Although if our engineering colleges dropped all the liberal arts, electives, english, PE, etc requirements and just drilled engineering for the whole 4 years, I think we would be no different.
Also, if IIT is the best college in the world, why don't they stay there for grad school?
Also, if IIT is the best college in the world, why don't they stay there for grad school?
mAdD INDIAN
Diamond Member
They have liberal arts, commerce, and all those areas of study, but just in different Universities/Colleges.
In India, most colleges focus on one area, its not like here where one colleges have many different faculties.
Theres not a lot of scope in India for someone who does grad school. In the US, they can do grad school and maybe do research in a field where they can get a good job with a large firm. The money and room to grow is in the States, not in India (or Canada for that matter).
I plan to get a job in the States (hopefully Texas cause I think it kicks ass) once I graduate.
Jellomancer, you are not responsible for other people's mistakes. If someone screws up something in India, why do you feel embarassed about it? India is more than just the screwups. There's plenty to be proud of in our heritage. I'm sorry that you don't quite see it that way. I've seen enough Americans proclaim that they are ashamed to be called Americans - I guess this notion is universal
A lot of the Indians that I have seen in grad school have come here because of a greater opportunity for research. A school like IIT, while a tremendous undergraduate school, is about 20 years behind the times in terms of research--especially when it comes to computing (like the computing facilities) and test equipment. Which isn't surprising considering their economic state. Plus, India has been sending its best and brightest to the US for grad school since their independence--and a lot of them STAY. My advisor is originally from India--and he's a VERY reputable person in the solid mechanics/computational mechanics area.
But my whole point is that the Indians we frequently encounter here in the US in technical positions (especially ones who are in/were in US graduate schools) are some of the best from their country. So, naturally, they tend to be very bright, and have a very good background--just like the "best" people from the US.
DanTMWTMP
Lifer
indians are really hard acedemic workers...i have yet to find an indian i know that wasn't really bright.....they have some sort of innate mathematical skills...i had a professor who came over here to UCSD from IIT who taught couple classes....of course that's like a side job for him, cuz he came here mainly to research w/ other prof's....
Well, that's exactly what I was saying. If you just have each major do only what's needed for that major, you basically get an extra year or more of concentration on that major. Here in the states you don't even have to decide on your major until sophomore year. I am not saying which one is better or what, but there are merits to both concentration, and well rounded education. If I was stuck in the EE building for 4 years I would probably do no worse than the IIT folks, not that I am doing worse now, since I work with some of them. Also, you also made my point about why IIT is not the best college in the world. First of all it's only engineering, so that narrows it down to best engineering college in the world, then it's only good for undergrad, so it could only be the best undergraduate engineering program in the world, if that. IIT just doesn't have the money to provide the facilities that are needed for a good post fundamentals engineering education. It might be fine for CS, where all you need is a PC, but for EE, you need serious equipment. They said $700 is 20% of the total cost, so the total cost is $3500 per student. Well, in the US it's about 10x as much. My school for example had it's own fabrication and packaging facility. They probably get some donated equipment from the states, but $3500 is not even going to buy you a good oscilloscope.
actually i know a few. they get good grades, but they brute force the subject material.. the stuff doesn't really come that naturally for them. i know this because i've studied and gone to office hours with quite a few, and their questions were about as stupid as the ones everybody else asked (which is mindnumbingly stupid imo).
so yea, i think most of it comes from hard work.
Miramonti
Lifer
I'm pretty ignorant about India and its issues but have got to say that Monsoon Wedding is one of the best films I've seen in a long time. 🙂
Well, some of them are brilliant, and some of them are just hard workers. They are certainly no smarter than any other culture on average. First of all the people you see here are the top tiny part of 1% of all people in India. There is no miracle here, you start cramming at 10, chances are by the time you are out of college at 21, you learn something 😉 That's 11 years of cramming and all nighters day in and day out.
The Stigenator
Lifer
Ok I need to clear somethings here.
I am a product of the IIT System. Well I didnt go to the univ, but I lived there. My dad is a retired professor of the Indian Institute of Technology - Madras.
I have known lots of people who have degrees other than CS. For example my brother in law. MS and Ph.D from IIT Madras in EE. His final project was in Power Electronics. Guess where he is.. GE Corporate R&D in Skenchady NY. He is in the top 1% of all GE R&D workers in his field and top 10% in all GE workers in productivity.
Anyway I grew up in teh IIT System. As for computing power yes they might lack. But each IIT is different. IIT Madras was built with help of the Germans, IIT Bombay was helped by teh Americans. In Madras my dad was the primary research prof. Infact to date he is yet to be beaten. For a long time the Indian Govt was funding things, they recently (as of 3 or 4 years back) pulled the funding asking the univs to start making some research money. That is why the cost of tution went up.. because prior to that it was even lower.
Some of the technology we use today was developed by IIT Madras. I dont know if you have heard of WLL (Wireless Local Loop), a family friend of us and a prof in IIT Madras Dr. JunJunWalla (sp?) developed it. The guy is a god.. I tell you. Anyway only very few ppl were actually doing research or presenting papers... then the univ made a change asking all professors to have atleast 2 papers in 5 years presented. So some of these profs had no experience writing papers.. they got mad and things went down hill. They looked at my dad as a sorta traitor who had all the latest gizmo's (hard ware) and yet they didnt. Little did they know my dad was working on some major projects and that's why he had those hardware.. the univ woudlnt have bought him SGI Visual Workstations, he bought it himself, they can give him a computer that's all and the purchasing dept was a joke (my dad bypassed it by buying components and having me build it so they coudlnt keep track of how many computers he had actually). Later some prof found out and wanted a peice of my dad's machines. Nevertheless that wasnt going to happen. When my dad retired, some of the prof's wanted dibs on the SGI's and the DEC Alpha and the other nice pricy hardware in name of research. HOwever he gave it to his colluege who he knew would use the hardware unlike others who it would be a dust gatherer.
I had a positive experience from IIT system thanks to my dad. I was introduced to email in 1989, to internet in 1991. We were the only ppl in the univ to have email beside the HoD in CS. My dad used it to communicated with my aunt and uncle here (prof's at univ's here). Also I lived in the university, I went to school inside the university which was funded by the university.
As for equipment in EE... they have frabrication equiment for chips. My sisters ex-fiance (before she got married to this nice guy) was doing his BS in EEE (now only EE is there) and he had fabricated some chips in hosue and shown it to us. Infact I have a slice of silicon somewhere around here. I saved it. The part that wasnt done right.
Some depts have thte good stuff, but if your in stuff like Math, or humanties you will be in trouble with equipment. I know this is true for IIT-M. I remember going to my friends dad's room to surf the web (he was showing me his dad's new DEC alpha - Physics dept) and it was an older model to my dad's 2 year old DEC.. and worse yet the connection speed to the net was in bytes.. I shoudltn have told him that I get a faster speed than him from home. I used to log in from home into my dad's system and get out into the www. Anyway the aero dept had a direct line to the microwave tower and hence had the FASTEST speed.. I hit a magical speed of 30kb/s back in 1993.. woah! I tell you and that was so good.
I wish CBS showed the other campuses.. because each one is different in the way it looks. IIT Madras is the prettiest, IIT KGP is in the middle of farm land (its got agricultural engg), IIT-D is polluted, IIT-B (Poway) is decent but I never liked the campus, to me IITM was always teh best. IIT-K (Kanpur) has an airstrip in the middle of the place. Its a working airstrip.
By the way there are 6 proper IIT's the last being IIT G (Gwahati - Assam). This is teh latest one the last time i was there in Assam (1997) they were still building the campus. Its in a nice hill side area. The 7th being BU (Baneras University) which uses the JEE system to bring in its students. That's why its called teh 7th IIT. But if you want to get to IIT you need to have within 3000 ranks. My best friend amar (also my neighbour in india) got 2995 and got Architecture in IIT-KGP, he specialises in remote sensing here in teh US now. My Classmate AP who is now in Berkeley doing his masters had a overall rank of 5. Yes I said 5. I always knew AP was god but not like this.
As for upper level courses.. i know lots of forgieners who come into the IIT system for education. We had quite a few bangladeshi's, egyptians, dutch, finnish, during my time (18 years) that I lived at IIT Madras.
I am a product of the IIT System. Well I didnt go to the univ, but I lived there. My dad is a retired professor of the Indian Institute of Technology - Madras.
I have known lots of people who have degrees other than CS. For example my brother in law. MS and Ph.D from IIT Madras in EE. His final project was in Power Electronics. Guess where he is.. GE Corporate R&D in Skenchady NY. He is in the top 1% of all GE R&D workers in his field and top 10% in all GE workers in productivity.
Anyway I grew up in teh IIT System. As for computing power yes they might lack. But each IIT is different. IIT Madras was built with help of the Germans, IIT Bombay was helped by teh Americans. In Madras my dad was the primary research prof. Infact to date he is yet to be beaten. For a long time the Indian Govt was funding things, they recently (as of 3 or 4 years back) pulled the funding asking the univs to start making some research money. That is why the cost of tution went up.. because prior to that it was even lower.
Some of the technology we use today was developed by IIT Madras. I dont know if you have heard of WLL (Wireless Local Loop), a family friend of us and a prof in IIT Madras Dr. JunJunWalla (sp?) developed it. The guy is a god.. I tell you. Anyway only very few ppl were actually doing research or presenting papers... then the univ made a change asking all professors to have atleast 2 papers in 5 years presented. So some of these profs had no experience writing papers.. they got mad and things went down hill. They looked at my dad as a sorta traitor who had all the latest gizmo's (hard ware) and yet they didnt. Little did they know my dad was working on some major projects and that's why he had those hardware.. the univ woudlnt have bought him SGI Visual Workstations, he bought it himself, they can give him a computer that's all and the purchasing dept was a joke (my dad bypassed it by buying components and having me build it so they coudlnt keep track of how many computers he had actually). Later some prof found out and wanted a peice of my dad's machines. Nevertheless that wasnt going to happen. When my dad retired, some of the prof's wanted dibs on the SGI's and the DEC Alpha and the other nice pricy hardware in name of research. HOwever he gave it to his colluege who he knew would use the hardware unlike others who it would be a dust gatherer.
I had a positive experience from IIT system thanks to my dad. I was introduced to email in 1989, to internet in 1991. We were the only ppl in the univ to have email beside the HoD in CS. My dad used it to communicated with my aunt and uncle here (prof's at univ's here). Also I lived in the university, I went to school inside the university which was funded by the university.
As for equipment in EE... they have frabrication equiment for chips. My sisters ex-fiance (before she got married to this nice guy) was doing his BS in EEE (now only EE is there) and he had fabricated some chips in hosue and shown it to us. Infact I have a slice of silicon somewhere around here. I saved it. The part that wasnt done right.
Some depts have thte good stuff, but if your in stuff like Math, or humanties you will be in trouble with equipment. I know this is true for IIT-M. I remember going to my friends dad's room to surf the web (he was showing me his dad's new DEC alpha - Physics dept) and it was an older model to my dad's 2 year old DEC.. and worse yet the connection speed to the net was in bytes.. I shoudltn have told him that I get a faster speed than him from home. I used to log in from home into my dad's system and get out into the www. Anyway the aero dept had a direct line to the microwave tower and hence had the FASTEST speed.. I hit a magical speed of 30kb/s back in 1993.. woah! I tell you and that was so good.
I wish CBS showed the other campuses.. because each one is different in the way it looks. IIT Madras is the prettiest, IIT KGP is in the middle of farm land (its got agricultural engg), IIT-D is polluted, IIT-B (Poway) is decent but I never liked the campus, to me IITM was always teh best. IIT-K (Kanpur) has an airstrip in the middle of the place. Its a working airstrip.
By the way there are 6 proper IIT's the last being IIT G (Gwahati - Assam). This is teh latest one the last time i was there in Assam (1997) they were still building the campus. Its in a nice hill side area. The 7th being BU (Baneras University) which uses the JEE system to bring in its students. That's why its called teh 7th IIT. But if you want to get to IIT you need to have within 3000 ranks. My best friend amar (also my neighbour in india) got 2995 and got Architecture in IIT-KGP, he specialises in remote sensing here in teh US now. My Classmate AP who is now in Berkeley doing his masters had a overall rank of 5. Yes I said 5. I always knew AP was god but not like this.
As for upper level courses.. i know lots of forgieners who come into the IIT system for education. We had quite a few bangladeshi's, egyptians, dutch, finnish, during my time (18 years) that I lived at IIT Madras.
Nice info The_good_guy... we all appreciate it.
My comments about facilities has more to do with _mechanical_ testing (which is what I personally am most familiar with). The costs for mechanical fabrication and testing is truly immense--much more expensive than computing fabrication (like in EE). The IIT graduates that I have worked with/spoken to noted that we have FAR better access to mechanical testing facilities here than there. Of course, for theoretical work, you could be ANYWHERE... so that's a moot point.
As far as computing, I don't think anyone (at least I wasn't) referring to workstations... I was referring more to supercomputing (not DEC Alphas and SGI Origins... more like Crays). That is a precious resource... something that we, in America, are really blessed to have at our disposal. I'm really thankful to be running most of my finite-element runs on a supercomputer at this point--when I tried to run them on the SGI Origin 3000 that my advisor owns, it predicted it would be finished in eight MONTHS.
Anyhow... thanks for your insight... glad to see someone personally familiar with the system. Like I said, my exposure is really only to people pursuing graduate degrees in engineering/science disciplines in the US.
My comments about facilities has more to do with _mechanical_ testing (which is what I personally am most familiar with). The costs for mechanical fabrication and testing is truly immense--much more expensive than computing fabrication (like in EE). The IIT graduates that I have worked with/spoken to noted that we have FAR better access to mechanical testing facilities here than there. Of course, for theoretical work, you could be ANYWHERE... so that's a moot point.
As far as computing, I don't think anyone (at least I wasn't) referring to workstations... I was referring more to supercomputing (not DEC Alphas and SGI Origins... more like Crays). That is a precious resource... something that we, in America, are really blessed to have at our disposal. I'm really thankful to be running most of my finite-element runs on a supercomputer at this point--when I tried to run them on the SGI Origin 3000 that my advisor owns, it predicted it would be finished in eight MONTHS.
Anyhow... thanks for your insight... glad to see someone personally familiar with the system. Like I said, my exposure is really only to people pursuing graduate degrees in engineering/science disciplines in the US.
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