India to soon become most populated country?

[zinfamous]

It was already officially ahead of China a few years back, iirc; then China retook that crown.

 

[zinfamous]

Oh because preventing HIV babies != killing HIV people. Do you even know how stupid you sound?

no, it's because you seem to think that sterilizing HIV+ women somehow slows the spread of an STD.

😵

didn't think that one through, did you?

 

[JTsyo]

Statisticaly , a country , as India, that has young average population
will see tremendous demographic growth for 20 years even if the children
number per woman would instantly switch to 2 children/woman , as it would
take the time quoted above for the age pyramid to ressemble US ages distribution.

That s why the chinese population kept growing steadily two decades
after a harsh demographic policy has been implemented with two children families as the maximum.

There's also a second part to the population growth, that's that people are living longer. When you add 20yrs to each generation you start to have overlaps.

 

[Howard]

no, it's because you seem to think that sterilizing HIV+ women somehow slows the spread of an STD.

😵

didn't think that one through, did you?

Someone give StrangerGuy a facepalm picture, please.

 

[Abwx]

There's also a second part to the population growth, that's that people are living longer. When you add 20yrs to each generation you start to have overlaps.

Quite right , higher life expectancy will substancialy increase
the time needed to reach population stabilisation , keeping the growth
going on for another 20 years after the younger two child generation
has reached the current life expectancy age.

All in all , not an optimistic future for countries that are
already in the 100 inhabitant/km2 mark , a level that is sustained
by european countries purely artificialy thanks to massive international
trade unbalanced terms , i.e , exchanging 1 hour of an european worker
work against 10 hours of a third world worker work , at equal intrinsical
productivity.

 

[Braznor]

That's a whole lot of conspiracy theories and wild arm-waving for one post! Or maybe too many Bollywood movies regurgitated.

The truth is, India has put serious efforts in bringing down the rate of population growth, with more success than not. Of course, when they have a lot of legacy to overcome, and other 3rd-world problems to tackle along the way. And as you can see in one of the above links, India is like a collection of many countries - not easy maneuvering that!

That their population will overtake China is given, but not for want of trying. But then, the 'one child policy' in China is not simply a state policy : it's the state's totalitarianism at work. If you delve deeper to see how that policy is implemented, you might stop admiring them for their 'foresight'.
OTOH, India's commitment to democracy and freedom is exemplary - hence you will never see such an intrusive law implemented. The last time they tried (Indira Gandhi in 1975), the party in power was kicked out (peacefully of course, in the next election). And who says that's bad?

Not all population increase is bad; many other countries with negative or zero growth have their own troubles, like aging population with less and less support from coming generations. India seems to be on the right track for a long-term growth as a developed country - maybe not as quick as we'd like, but still steady enough.

There is no conspiracy theory, I know it seems fantastic because this is a very huge scale of evil and monstrosity. Just Google it all up. It is all facts.

 

[radhak]

All in all , not an optimistic future for countries that are
already in the 100 inhabitant/km2 mark , a level that is sustained
by european countries purely artificialy thanks to massive international
trade unbalanced terms , i.e , exchanging 1 hour of an european worker
work against 10 hours of a third world worker work , at equal intrinsical
productivity.

Actually, the population density question ('how much is too much ?') has not been answered yet. As this list shows, not all the countries in the 'extremely dense' category are doing badly (even the Netherlands is above India), and many of the African countries are in 2-digits!
An Indian scientist Amartya Sen was given a Nobel prize for proving that poverty can be removed despite a huge population, and that large population could even be an asset in a nation's progress.

There is no conspiracy theory, I know it seems fantastic because this is a very huge scale of evil and monstrosity. Just Google it all up. It is all facts.

Yeah, sure - and google will turn up posts like yours, truly 'validating' such 'facts'. Next you'll direct me to Wikipedia as an 'authentic source'.

 

[Abwx]

Actually, the population density question ('how much is too much ?') has not been answered yet. As this list shows, not all the countries in the 'extremely dense' category are doing badly (even the Netherlands is above India), and many of the African countries are in 2-digits!
An Indian scientist Amartya Sen was given a Nobel prize for proving that poverty can be removed despite a huge population, and that large population could even be an asset in a nation's progress.


Yeah, sure - and google will turn up posts like yours, truly 'validating' such 'facts'. Next you'll direct me to Wikipedia as an 'authentic source'.

Read what i did write above...

I give you en exemple :

A dutch work 1 hour to produce a said good and sell it to an african for 1$.

The african work 10 hours to produce a good that is sold to the dutch
for 1$.

In this scheme , the dutch did artificialy inflate his real income
because he benefited from a unbalanced trade term.

As for the indian scientist , he s just too stupid to evaluate
that should the chinese or indians (but not both at the same time)
live at the same standard that western europe , they would
consume almost all world oil production.....

The only western nation that did manage at a time to be
more or less capable of living only off her own ressource was
the US up to the 60s , at a density of about 20 inhabitants/km2.

Increasing population and average living standard in this country
led it to start unbalanced trades terms , just like the europeans,
using mainly China as cheap labor source , although to an extent
that has largely harmed the most fragile part of the US society.

 

[StrangerGuy]

no, it's because you seem to think that sterilizing HIV+ women somehow slows the spread of an STD.

😵

didn't think that one through, did you?

Thanks for putting your own words in my mouth. When did I ever say anything about stopping the spread of HIV? I'm just don't want babies to born with HIV to begin with what is wrong with that? Isn't it downright unethical for women with HIV to give birth to spread their disease to their babies; you think those babies have a choice?

Or you can continue to twist the words of others while you gallop on your moral high horse.

 

[Braznor]

Yeah, sure - and google will turn up posts like yours, truly 'validating' such 'facts'. Next you'll direct me to Wikipedia as an 'authentic source'.

Dude, if you are Indian, are you living under a rock? Go read the newspapers just the past one year and you will know what kind of people are running the Indian government and I don't mean just any crackpot site, go and read the reputed newssites covering India. See what my politicians have done and are still doing today.

 

[Abwx]

Dude, if you are Indian, are you living under a rock? Go read the newspapers just the past one year and you will know what kind of people are running the Indian government and I don't mean just any crackpot site, go and read the reputed newssites covering India. See what my politicians have done and are still doing today.

In any country, politicians , as anybody else , are the products
of the society mentality they are living in , they dont come from Mars.

Get rid of the 1000 top end politicians , replace them with
randomly selected people from the same society and it will
yield an equally competent/incompetent political power.

 

[radhak]

As for the indian scientist , he s just too stupid to evaluate
that should the chinese or indians (but not both at the same time)
live at the same standard that western europe , they would
consume almost all world oil production.....
...

I wanted to try and understand the rest of whatever you typed, but when you called a nobel-prize-winning economist 'too stupid <to understand economics>', I lost interest.

Dude, if you are Indian, are you living under a rock? Go read the newspapers just the past one year and you will know what kind of people are running the Indian government and I don't mean just any crackpot site, go and read the reputed newssites covering India. See what my politicians have done and are still doing today.

I am Indian, but I don't just read about it - I live it. I'm in India a major part of any year as part of my work. I interact with actual people there, and a lot with government functionaries at various levels, including very professional exchanges with people in somewhat high offices there - life there is similar to here. You seem to have gained a heightened sense of holier-than-thou since you left the country.

India has neither a greater nor any less hold on corruption than any other nation. And trying to understand a country through online reports is silly, at the best. ( On my last visit some people expressed concern that here in the US we must be confined to our homes after dark, because of the danger of being shot to death by members of the neighborhood watch; they too read a lot of online news about life in the US and form exaggerated opinions from that).

But I think we've flogged this small bit of news to death; I'm outta here.

 

[Abwx]

I wanted to try and understand the rest of whatever you typed, but when you called a nobel-prize-winning economist 'too stupid <to understand economics>', I lost interest.

A nobel prize is in no way a cure against illogical statements.

Indeed , studies that display some optimism are warmly
welcomed by the ideological community for it gives hope
to the masses.

Now , let s admit that all indians reach european standard of life
wich is reasonnably less wasteful than the US one.
This will automaticaly imply :

- one billion metric tons of oil comsumption, about 50% of the world
output.

- 400 millions metric tons of wheat/rize production wich would
require almost 30% of India s surface , not counting the other
necessary agricultural products wich would require close to that
surface as well.

- 300 millions metric tons of steel , 30% of the world output ,
assuming India has the mining potential , wich is quite possible.

- 1000 nuclear reactors to provide electric power.....

I guess that this nobel prize owner , while living in a 300 square meters
house fully equipped , find acceptable that the rest of the people has
to be happy with a few daily pounds of rice as the end of all in life.....

 

[Atreus21]

You can't come to conclusions based on what is appealing or not. The world is overpopulated.

Sez who?

Everyone would be better off if the population decreased.

That's quite a claim. How on earth can you prove that?

That doesn't mean we have to start exterminating people, but the the reverse of not doing anything and acting like everyone has a god-given right to have six babies borders is terrible.

It's astonishing to see this argument in a country which allows abortions. I'm not sure of your position on abortion, but I can't help but notice the incongruity between the arguments in favor of abortion and those in favor of overpopulation. On one hand, a woman has a God-given right to control her body. On the other, she shouldn't be allowed to control her body past a point we consider excessive.

It seems to me as if a woman should have control over her body only insofar as she is willing to thin the herd.

If women want to have 10 children, let them. I contest the notion that the world is overpopulated.

 

[Baasha]

This question incidentally touches on another important topic that is somewhat subliminal; the paradigm with which we measure (material) progress.

If everyone in the world is trying to live like the west, where the population is barely 10% of the world but consumes almost half of the world's resources, severe conflicts are inevitable.

America alone consumes 25% of the resources in the world but its population comprises of less than 5%!

In India, if everyone is making a mad dash to achieve some mythical "good life" (by watching bollywood/hollywood etc.), it will lead to several conflicts and fissures that can rapidly spread into calamitous civil strife. Even something as innocuous as buying a car is a good example. As more Indians join the middle class in terms of income, the more automobiles there will be on the streets. The land is finite in square-mileage. India will turn into a parking lot (more than it already is in places like Bangalore etc.) and the subsequent pollution and its ill effects will be severely exacerbated.

I created an example called "Enzo Syndrome". If you have a Ferrari Enzo, arguably one of the greatest supercars made, you (usually) wouldn't go around telling everyone on the street who drives a Honda, Ford, Chevrolet, etc. that they too should drive an Enzo and that their life is essentially worthless without having an Enzo. When others constantly hear that the definition of being fulfilled or being "happy" is only through having a Ferrari Enzo (or some such supercar), their whole life will be altered for the worse in most cases. Some may be inspired enough to set out on the path to earn enough to be able to afford one; most will not. The constant reminder that they have "not made it" or are not complete because they don't have an Enzo will wear them down, eventually leading to resentment, despondence, and unhappiness.

Life is similar to that. We create some mythical image in our minds about how one should live and spend almost all our waking hours trying to achieve that when life simply passes by. Instead of being contented with one's lot in life, if one goes on pining for something they don't have, one will inevitably be unhappy. The whole world operates on this false notion of happiness. This touches the core of the purpose of religion and how subliminally it shapes society to a large extent. If an even-minded attitude can be cultivated, material consumption will reduce and there will be a natural inclination towards respecting the environment and against the abuse/overuse of natural resources. The population problem can be solved but it is much easier said than done.

This is not a problem just for India; it is one for the whole world. The western way of life, that is assumed to be status quo world over, is simply and purely unsustainable in the long run. The rate at which we consume natural resources far exceeds sustainable levels and the ever-increasing population only worsens it.

The western world has relied on slave labor, colonization (a euphemism for invasion, theft, robbery, and genocide), and plunder for its "progress". This continuous cycle of consumption of goods produced in poorer nations will precipitously decline.

The only "solution" to this problem is that each country develops a sustainable lifestyle for its citizens without blindly aping the west. The west cannot continue its irresponsible ways for long; the never-ending labor-supply and natural resources will dry up soon. When that does happen, small skirmishes will turn into large wars causing enormous casualties; perhaps a "reset" of the population to start the cycle all over again.

Since that is where things are headed, that sort of lifestyle is highly detrimental to oneself and society at large.

The only "solution" as far as India is concerned is for people to start living a Dharmic lifestyle; one that is duty-based instead of desire-based. This, in short, is Varnashrama Dharma - the much-maligned "caste system". When people learn to be contented within their communities, such problems are unlikely to rise. This decentralized form of society (village-based sub-groups) will ensure autonomy for each group of people.

India was at the top of the world when it was living in Dharma. There is talk even in America these days about starting vocational schools for those who are disinclined towards certain subjects - this is nothing but caste masquerading as something else.

If every Indian aspires to work for "Google" or some such company and is a free-for-all (as it is now), a large swathe of the population will be left out and it will turn into resentment which can then create another set of problems (angry underemployed/unemployed youth). When Varnashrama was adhered to, each individual was guaranteed a "job" or livelihood with dignity that he/she can be the "expert" in. There was no "mad dash" to try and be the next Bill Gates/Ambani etc.

When everything was shot to hell by the invasions of barbarians (Muslims/Christians), India still maintained its structure and civilization ONLY because of Varnashrama. Too bad many Indians/Hindus don't know this. They have been taught to abhor anything to do with "caste" and think caste = casteism. It will take a very long time for Indians to come out of the stupor they are in and take pride in their own civilization, culture, and way of life. Until then, the race to become a "have" among a sea of have-nots is a tragedy unfolding in front of our eyes. With the 7-billion"th" child being born in India, things aren't looking buttery.

As Shakespeare so eloquently stated, "All the world's a stage. And all the men and women merely players."

 

[Infohawk]

Sez who?

That's quite a claim. How on earth can you prove that?

What kind of proof are you looking for? This is like asking whether there are too many people living in an apartment. Prove that 10 people in a one bedroom apartment is too much.

 

[Braznor]

I wanted to try and understand the rest of whatever you typed, but when you called a nobel-prize-winning economist 'too stupid <to understand economics>', I lost interest.



I am Indian, but I don't just read about it - I live it. I'm in India a major part of any year as part of my work. I interact with actual people there, and a lot with government functionaries at various levels, including very professional exchanges with people in somewhat high offices there - life there is similar to here. You seem to have gained a heightened sense of holier-than-thou since you left the country.

India has neither a greater nor any less hold on corruption than any other nation. And trying to understand a country through online reports is silly, at the best. ( On my last visit some people expressed concern that here in the US we must be confined to our homes after dark, because of the danger of being shot to death by members of the neighborhood watch; they too read a lot of online news about life in the US and form exaggerated opinions from that).

But I think we've flogged this small bit of news to death; I'm outta here.

I live here dude and India ranks amongst the most corrupted countries in the world. Please go through just the recent news to see what I'm talking about. Just the recent news, no need for googling the past. Just see what is happening now and you will know what has happened forever.

 

[OCGuy]

What do you think we'll be doing in another 100 years? Our population increase will not stop either.

Yes it will. Nature has a way of working out population control. There is no "god" that will take care of it, but there are several natural things that have a 100% chance of happening that will stunt and/or destroy life as we know it.

Man is capable of one of these events with a few launch codes being entered into a computer system or broadcast to a sub/bomber, nature is capable of a multitude of events.