Your comments show exactly how ignorant you are. How about we just leave to the people who used the nukes; I think they expressed their reasons well enough.
I am sure India would like to settle Kashmir issue. But the point here is that Kashmir issue is between people of Kashmir and India. Pakistan has nothing to do with it. While trying to settle that issue Kashmiri minorities should not be forgotten. This minorities were virtually kicked out of their homes by pakistani backed terrorists just so that they can make the whole thing sound like a religious war. If pakistan thinks that it has to be part of talks between India and Kashmir then it has to stop supporting terrorism in Kashmir and rest of India.
Please remember you cannot force a settlement on anybody by holding a gun to their head. That is what Pakistan is doing. It keeps talking about lauching nukes everytime issue terrorism comes up. At some point India has to call pakistans Nuke bluff. If it gets blackmailed once there is no gaurantee that pakistan will not use the same tactic again with India or any other country for that matter.
Last but not least India has never said anything about using nukes. India has a 'No First Use' policy in place. If pakistan is stupid enough to use nukes you can bet that it will cease to exist as a nation.
Please remember you cannot force a settlement on anybody by holding a gun to their head. That is what Pakistan is doing. It keeps talking about lauching nukes everytime issue terrorism comes up. At some point India has to call pakistans Nuke bluff. If it gets blackmailed once there is no gaurantee that pakistan will not use the same tactic again with India or any other country for that matter.
Last but not least India has never said anything about using nukes. India has a 'No First Use' policy in place. If pakistan is stupid enough to use nukes you can bet that it will cease to exist as a nation.
exactly my views...... also we don't want a bunch of stupid americans to tell us what is right or wrong - it's our country , not yours' dumbas$
let me quote the great Nietzsche
"Against war one can say: It makes the victor stupid, the vanquished malignant. In favor of war: Through both of these effects it barbarizes and thereby makes more natural; it is a sleep or a winter for culture, and man emerges from it stronger for good and evil."
"Against war one can say: It makes the victor stupid, the vanquished malignant. In favor of war: Through both of these effects it barbarizes and thereby makes more natural; it is a sleep or a winter for culture, and man emerges from it stronger for good and evil."
lawaris, I suggest you read the National Institute for Public Policy's executive report entitled "Rationale and Requirements for US Nuclear Forces and Arms Control". Its dated Jan 2001. Pay close attention to the section labeled "US Strategic Requirements: What Role for Nuclear Weapons". You may learn something. I'll see if I can find you a link.
lawaris,
This reminds me of what the fine people of Lenanon suggested to us. There used to be a beautiful and prosperous country there but they got to hastleing and when we tried to intervene they asked us to please mind our own business and let us kill each other in pease. It's not such a great place any more, but they didn't use nukes on each other.
I guess the real question is whether stupid us, the US, should let you kill each other in pease. I'm sure a lot of us would be only too happy to do so. Maybe we should, especially if you can guarantee to keep all the radiation confined to your own respective countries. It has been a long time since we, the US, used nuclear weapons. We are quilty of that, it's true. Whatever our rational, we did. Some might argue its because we did, that we killed thousands and thousands of men women and children, civilians, that it affected us and made us wiser. Maybe you need to make that mistake too so you can catch up. You seem to suffer so from a feeling of inferiority, calling us stupid, for example. Oh it might be true, but the need to say it tells everything about your inner state. As to inner states, I'm very sorry for the friends you've lost doing their duty, certainly what they thought of as their duty at any rate. There are perhaps just a very few people who see a duty beyond nationalism, but such people find little welcome anywhere, so nevermind them now.
So maybe it is time for another limited nuclear war. You exchange nukes, kill millions, prove that nuclear blackmail doesn't work and maybe open a tourist concession of the devistation or maybe move the UN to ground zero to stimulate the old thinking processes among future world leaders.
It's hard issues you raise to be sure. What right does the US, particularly a stupid one, have telling other countries what to do with nukes, whether they can have them, use them, etc. Who gave us that right. We (the US) is no better than anybody else, right. I guess I would have to ask myself if what I see are responsible adults ingagen in a legitimate despute, or two children arguing on the playground. Would you expect the principal to just stand by and watch in that case. I hope not. So who is to be the judge of India and Pakistan's level of maturity.
These are really fun issues. Suppose for example that those who live by the sword die by the sword, ie that the development and deployment of nuclear weapons automatically leads to nuclear destruction because people must as a matter of their nature threaten and call the bluff. I know you, lawaris, weren't interested in problems involved in saving the world, but actions have long term consequences and some maintain that intelligence is really a method of determining future consequences. So does a country with the power take away children's sticks and stones even if they are only the school bully, or does it sit by and watch kids beat each other to death. We cannot know the future for sure. What we can know is that we are all the same. If the US is stupid, than you can bet India and Pakistan are too. If we will use nukes you can bet they will too. One thing I guess you can count on, though, is that if there is a nuclear exchange it will be the stupid US that will be the biggest aid donor.
This reminds me of what the fine people of Lenanon suggested to us. There used to be a beautiful and prosperous country there but they got to hastleing and when we tried to intervene they asked us to please mind our own business and let us kill each other in pease. It's not such a great place any more, but they didn't use nukes on each other.
I guess the real question is whether stupid us, the US, should let you kill each other in pease. I'm sure a lot of us would be only too happy to do so. Maybe we should, especially if you can guarantee to keep all the radiation confined to your own respective countries. It has been a long time since we, the US, used nuclear weapons. We are quilty of that, it's true. Whatever our rational, we did. Some might argue its because we did, that we killed thousands and thousands of men women and children, civilians, that it affected us and made us wiser. Maybe you need to make that mistake too so you can catch up. You seem to suffer so from a feeling of inferiority, calling us stupid, for example. Oh it might be true, but the need to say it tells everything about your inner state. As to inner states, I'm very sorry for the friends you've lost doing their duty, certainly what they thought of as their duty at any rate. There are perhaps just a very few people who see a duty beyond nationalism, but such people find little welcome anywhere, so nevermind them now.
So maybe it is time for another limited nuclear war. You exchange nukes, kill millions, prove that nuclear blackmail doesn't work and maybe open a tourist concession of the devistation or maybe move the UN to ground zero to stimulate the old thinking processes among future world leaders.
It's hard issues you raise to be sure. What right does the US, particularly a stupid one, have telling other countries what to do with nukes, whether they can have them, use them, etc. Who gave us that right. We (the US) is no better than anybody else, right. I guess I would have to ask myself if what I see are responsible adults ingagen in a legitimate despute, or two children arguing on the playground. Would you expect the principal to just stand by and watch in that case. I hope not. So who is to be the judge of India and Pakistan's level of maturity.
These are really fun issues. Suppose for example that those who live by the sword die by the sword, ie that the development and deployment of nuclear weapons automatically leads to nuclear destruction because people must as a matter of their nature threaten and call the bluff. I know you, lawaris, weren't interested in problems involved in saving the world, but actions have long term consequences and some maintain that intelligence is really a method of determining future consequences. So does a country with the power take away children's sticks and stones even if they are only the school bully, or does it sit by and watch kids beat each other to death. We cannot know the future for sure. What we can know is that we are all the same. If the US is stupid, than you can bet India and Pakistan are too. If we will use nukes you can bet they will too. One thing I guess you can count on, though, is that if there is a nuclear exchange it will be the stupid US that will be the biggest aid donor.
Red: "And if you want to nuke the sh!t out of each other damn it, you are going to do it whether we like it or not!"
Lawaris: "I don't really care about your dumb-ass opinions"
Isn't that exactly what Red Dawn said?
Lawaris: "I don't really care about your dumb-ass opinions"
Isn't that exactly what Red Dawn said?
Everybody should learn from history. All things aside all you need to do is ask yourself a simple question
How long will you put up with blackmail ?
That's what this is Pakistan is using scare tactics and blackmailing not only India but rest of the world. Message is simple give us what we want or ELSE.
Giving in to this will set a very bad example. I gaurantee you that it will come back to haunt us in less than a decade. Exact same blackmail...'Give us what we want or we will use the Nukes'.
Right now this is India's war and it has to fight it. Nothing is expected from any other country atleast not
self-righteousness.
How long will you put up with blackmail ?
That's what this is Pakistan is using scare tactics and blackmailing not only India but rest of the world. Message is simple give us what we want or ELSE.
Giving in to this will set a very bad example. I gaurantee you that it will come back to haunt us in less than a decade. Exact same blackmail...'Give us what we want or we will use the Nukes'.
Right now this is India's war and it has to fight it. Nothing is expected from any other country atleast not
self-righteousness.
Zombie, it's always quite true that issues involving potentially millions of deaths are simple, clear cut and obvious, like when a suicide attemptee has handcuffed himself to his wife and is threatening to jump. Obviously, everywhere and in all cases, you immediately call people's bluff. If millions die, so what, that will teach the next bluffer a lesson, huh.
First of all there is no gaurantee that Pakistan will not find some other excuse to use Nukes even if Kashmir is settled. So does this mean India has to give in?
What the threat translates to is "We kill and torture as many women/children/men as we want. But if you try to stop us we will use nukes." You really can't so naive and belive that Pakistan will go away if it gets kashmir. Its the conflict of ideologies and Kashmir is just and excuse. India should not be expected to bend-over and keep taking casualties while the world watches a democracy being blackmailed by a Islamic dictator. If the world is really so worried about million casualties then they should pressure Pakistan to give-up its terrorist ways.
What the threat translates to is "We kill and torture as many women/children/men as we want. But if you try to stop us we will use nukes." You really can't so naive and belive that Pakistan will go away if it gets kashmir. Its the conflict of ideologies and Kashmir is just and excuse. India should not be expected to bend-over and keep taking casualties while the world watches a democracy being blackmailed by a Islamic dictator. If the world is really so worried about million casualties then they should pressure Pakistan to give-up its terrorist ways.
Zombie: " If the world is really so worried about million casualties then they should pressure Pakistan to give-up its terrorist ways."
Hey now, there's a thought. maybe there ARE other options than nuclear war. I suppose the next big question becomes, "How many MINUTES do we get to try and do this?"
Hey now, there's a thought. maybe there ARE other options than nuclear war. I suppose the next big question becomes, "How many MINUTES do we get to try and do this?"
argh I hate american sarcasm 
Ok, President of Pakistan already pulled a fast one on US, India and the rest of the world early this year. After Dec 13 attack on Indian parliament he made a bold speech about how he intends to stop terrorism and what not. He even went as far as to outlaw some terrorist organizations cited by both US and India. He arrested tons of people and guess the end result and situation today. All those people were allowed to walked away scratch free after just 3 weeks.
India DOES not want to go thru this BS every month. He has to follow-up on what he promises if he can't then it only goes to prove that he is not in control of his country and therefore nobody should even bother talking to him. What is the use of talking when you don't even know who you are talking to
Ok, President of Pakistan already pulled a fast one on US, India and the rest of the world early this year. After Dec 13 attack on Indian parliament he made a bold speech about how he intends to stop terrorism and what not. He even went as far as to outlaw some terrorist organizations cited by both US and India. He arrested tons of people and guess the end result and situation today. All those people were allowed to walked away scratch free after just 3 weeks.
India DOES not want to go thru this BS every month. He has to follow-up on what he promises if he can't then it only goes to prove that he is not in control of his country and therefore nobody should even bother talking to him. What is the use of talking when you don't even know who you are talking to
Totally agree. If anything, India has to learn from the U.S not to give in to blackmail. Moonbeam, India gave in to the hijackers of the Indian Airlines flight from Kathmandu and it was later revealed that they had connections with Al Qaeda. The world has had 55 years to see that Pakistan is a failed state and is a fountainhead of terrorism and extremism. If the US does not put a stop to this here and now, it will almost certainly come back to haunt them only because they are such an attractive target for the terrorists
If the Islamic terrorists have one grouse against the Indians (Kashmir), they have a hundred other reasons to hate the Americans.I'm not here defending Pakistan or the US. I am concerned with the limited, in my opinion, thinking that goes on when people's nationalism comes to the for and they start blithly talking about nuclear war and bluffs and showdowns etc. I don't think that egomaniacs deserve the right to have opinions that threaten the lives of millions of other people, millions of them children too young even to have an opinion much less much of an ego. I thiple whow the truth, people who are certain of their brand of reality and are willing to take millions of others to their deaths are mentally ill, psychopathic, to put it bluntly. Your pride your anger, your national honor, youreverything you believe in isn't worth a farthing to one of those innocent beautiful lives.
The answers aren't in war, in nuclear holocaust, in hate, in calling people's bluff. You are trapped in a delusion if you think so, a delusion so profound that it may cause the extinction of the entire human species. People need to awaken. The world is perfect as it is. It's heaven outside. There is only love beauty and harmony all around. Only we are asleep searching everywhere for what we already have.
There is no problem so great that it can't be solved with love, with good will and understanding. You are your enemy. All the hate you feel for the enemy is only the hate you feel for your selves. Yes, you are the enemy. Love your enemy. You'll feel right as rain.
It's always the other guy's fault. Always the other guy. That is the disease.
The answers aren't in war, in nuclear holocaust, in hate, in calling people's bluff. You are trapped in a delusion if you think so, a delusion so profound that it may cause the extinction of the entire human species. People need to awaken. The world is perfect as it is. It's heaven outside. There is only love beauty and harmony all around. Only we are asleep searching everywhere for what we already have.
There is no problem so great that it can't be solved with love, with good will and understanding. You are your enemy. All the hate you feel for the enemy is only the hate you feel for your selves. Yes, you are the enemy. Love your enemy. You'll feel right as rain.
It's always the other guy's fault. Always the other guy. That is the disease.
Red Dawn
Elite Member
- Jun 4, 2001
- 57,529
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Of course if India and Pakistan do go to war and start lobbing Nukes at each other maybe we can sneak one in over ERastern Pakistan and get the Extremist there. Hell we can pin it on India!! Even in the worse case scenario there is a silver lining! YEah that's the ticket
As the saying goes
"Patriotism is the Last Refuge of a Scoundrel"
I would love to live in a world as it is right now. It is perfect as it is, in my mind. But you cannot ignore the fact that islamic radicals and terrorists and expantionist politicians do not think so. This was proved on september 11th and is proved almost every other day in Israel and Kashmir. Threat of nuclear holocaust should not motivate us to ignore slow, painful and horrible death bestowed upon innocent people every single day. If million deaths could deter countries from doing what was right than nobody would have stood-up to Hitler. Although it was not a nuclear war millions of innocent people were killed.
"Patriotism is the Last Refuge of a Scoundrel"
I would love to live in a world as it is right now. It is perfect as it is, in my mind. But you cannot ignore the fact that islamic radicals and terrorists and expantionist politicians do not think so. This was proved on september 11th and is proved almost every other day in Israel and Kashmir. Threat of nuclear holocaust should not motivate us to ignore slow, painful and horrible death bestowed upon innocent people every single day. If million deaths could deter countries from doing what was right than nobody would have stood-up to Hitler. Although it was not a nuclear war millions of innocent people were killed.
Eastern Pakistan == India.
If you meant China you will be surprised by jawbreaking response from Russia and China. Ofcourse that will be the end of the world.
Ignore himblip .... he is just a loud mouthed asshole who does not even know the geography of the region he is posting about !
Anyway, he's a kiddo and they are supposed to be immature and are to be ignored !
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