India To Invade In Two Weeks

[Hammer]

I understand what you're saying, but I believe their ultimate goal is kashmir. My point is that to fight war with a time limit is worthless, you're shooting yourself in the foot. And it would take longer than a week to really accomplish anything, since Pakistan will be concentrating troops and certainly has sufficient capacity to hold out a week. If their 'goal' is to harass Pakistan for a week before bowing to international pressure, it seems to me like a waste of resources is all I was saying.

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
hammer, I know that I am exceptionally dense, but if their goal is to fight for a week until international pressure stops them, and you suggested you didn't know what their goal is, than by my reckoning a week should do it. I merely suggested then, that as long as you don't know their goal, your presumption that a week is insufficient is just that, a presumption.

As to the tangent, the possibility that it was something that only I realize, was why I posted it. I mean, after all, did you make the point that India was being ridiculous because you already thought I knew?

 

[Moonbeam]

I merely wanted to suggest that all conflict is similarly wasteful, it just depends, somethime, on not being envolved to see it. What you were trying to do was to inject a note of sense into a situation of insanity.

 

[rudder]

Well the stupid thing is Kashmir does not want to be part of India or Pakistan. The same reason we have this conflict today is the same reason we have the israel/palestinian conflict. Some dopes in the English government drew some somewhat arbitrary lines on a map and said this is the way it will be. Oh well.

 

[Hammer]

I have to disagree. Not all conflict is wasteful if it accomplishes a greater good. While the loss of human life is regretable, war is a way to force another country to submit to your will. Its a "mere continuation of policy by other means" to quote von Clausewitz.

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I merely wanted to suggest that all conflict is similarly wasteful, it just depends, somethime, on not being envolved to see it. What you were trying to do was to inject a note of sense into a situation of insanity.

 

[AU Tiger]

I would wager that Pakistan would fire the nukes if they were getting their ass handed to them. The exception being if they have allied support from Iran or some other country.

 

[Moonbeam]

hammer: "I have to disagree"

Which brings us full circle. The Indians and Pakistanis also disagree, and each of them is likewise convinced that they know what the 'greater good' is. Their greater good is not your greater good so in their case it's a waste. When you begin to realize, I won't hold my breath, that your greater good is of the same stuff as theirs, that your conviction in your own rectitude is the same as theirs, when you begin to realize that you and everybody else is completely blind there will begin to be a real possibility of pease. The world did not get to be the way it is because everybody else is insane. Think about it. When you see the level of commitment you have to your own delusions you will get an idea of the magnitude of the problem.

 

[Hammer]

Moonbeam, put the crack pipe down.

You've missed my entire point. Maybe its my fault because I haven't made it clear, or simple enough to understand. So I'll break it down to one sentence so maybe it will sink in for you.

War should have a legitimate purpose.

We don't need to both have the same "greater good" to agree on this. If India was actually trying to take Kashmir in an attack that would be fine, but they know they couldn't accomplish that in a week. So there's no point in it. That's my basic argument. Other wars, that do have clear goals, do have a purpose. Do you understand now?

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
hammer: "I have to disagree"

Which brings us full circle. The Indians and Pakistanis also disagree, and each of them is likewise convinced that they know what the 'greater good' is. Their greater good is not your greater good so in their case it's a waste. When you begin to realize, I won't hold my breath, that your greater good is of the same stuff as theirs, that your conviction in your own rectitude is the same as theirs, when you begin to realize that you and everybody else is completely blind there will begin to be a real possibility of pease. The world did not get to be the way it is because everybody else is insane. Think about it. When you see the level of commitment you have to your own delusions you will get an idea of the magnitude of the problem.

 

[Hammer]

And where did I say it was my "greater good"? I said a"greater good" meaning a specific end result, or purpose. I don't think you understand, I'm not going to argue with you anymore because you're either not trying very hard or don't have the capacity.

Which brings us full circle. The Indians and Pakistanis also disagree, and each of them is likewise convinced that they know what the 'greater good' is. Their greater good is not your greater good so in their case it's a waste. When you begin to realize, I won't hold my breath, that your greater good is of the same stuff as theirs, that your conviction in your own rectitude

 

[lawaris]

I tend to agree with hammer broadly .....

Making threats never got anyone anywhere .... if you are serious enough you should believe in " the ends favors the means ".

 

[cmdavid]

Originally posted by: LeRocks

Originally posted by: HellRaiserandBeerDrinker
Yikes


:Q

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

<Hayabusarider uses the Farce>

Darkness I see. Much suffering there is. Children playing with matches there are.

Anyway, since I am not an expert on Pakistan and India at least as far as I know, I will throw just one cents worth in on this.

If you accept the article as being precise and accurate then there is a great deal to be concerned with. That is if the death of hundreds of thousands or more matters. It may not because they are WAY over there, and if it does not affect you, then have a beer and pay attention to the true concerns of life, like say, the WWF.

At the risk of being pedantic-

Ok, technical stuff
Low yield nukes are not going to make us glow over here. End of story. Nope, na hah, no way, etc. Open air tests include the US, Russia, China... big list of HUGE detonations. A few equals the entire nuke capability of both countries. Ta da! We are still here. Or if we are not, we can't tell the difference, and therefore as a practical matter, worries are moot.

Next,
Humanity must learn from history so that when we find ourselves in similar circumstances, we can screw it up even worse. I am referring to Kennedy vs. Russia et al. Isn't it wonderful how we showed those commie SOB's what losers they were and that America is morally superior because we, well we just are, and that a good guy can kick the azz of some low life because, well we just can...

A generation of people thought that way. Not everyone, but most because the truth was hidden. That truth? We nearly had ourselves blown up by "saber rattling" Russia didnt back down. We BOTH did, but we made it look to our people like we did not. If it were not for some VERY fortuitous circumstances, there would have been massive destruction. Why? Because you cant let the other guy get the best of you. If that means you die, well people die all the time. Well that is a little unfair. Kennedy did not want to go to war, although there were some around him who considered duck and cover to be a rational defense posture.

Here we have a similar scenario.

Country A and B. I will refrain from using good and bad guy terms here, because good and bad doesnt determine how this could play out
Both countries appear to have a dispute about territory. No, it is about soverignty. The territory is just the playing field for this "game" A will not give into B and vice versa. B therefore takes a tough stance against A. A responds by using inflammitory rhetoric and "rattles" a bit by troop movements. B responds with more name calling and military exercises in the region. A says "Ahah, see they are the agressors, just like we said" and proceeds to do just the same thing as B. B now acts in a more provocative manner by moving troops into the region or if they are already there, increasing their numbers. A (or is it B? So hard to tell who is who at this point)- plans an assault in the disputed area, because, well they are morally superior and can kick their azz, well because they can and it really wont be so bad because those guys are cowards and will fold and would rather be put back into the stone age by our method, rather than using nukes...

Meanwhile B looks at this and realizes that a conventional victory is out of the question. Further, how can A be trusted to stop there? Looks like giving in will cost. Too much. Perhaps it is better to strike decisively with the only practical weapon. If we are lucky, and maybe we are, because we are morally superior, we can take out their nuke capability before it does too much damage. One or two might get through, but there is always duck and cover.

Tensions grow. No one wants to lose face and by this time it is a matter of principle. Principle is worth dying for. So that is precisely what happens. A invades B. B launches. Not just in the disputed area, but to take out the leadership of the other country. In other words attacks A proper. Now A was aware of this, and made provision for field commanders to retaliate in case of such an event. So they do. Result? You know.

So Moonbeam and Hammer, we have success. Within 7 days, India can reach it's goal of knocking Pakistan back into the stone age, and Pakistan can make sure that India never gains control of Kashmir, at least one that it would want.

Nirvana all around.

So what do you think of my neat and tidy solution?

 

[Moonbeam]

Hehe, do I understand now. I have no problem with your assertion just so long as we never ever get into any wars where you or anybody else defines legitimate. I have no problem with legitimate wars because there won't be any. Only the insane know what legitimate is. And ask yourself when the last time was a world leader sat down and said to himself, I think I'll start an illigitimate war today.

 

[WA261]

if they are lame enough to go to war over a sh*t hole....let'em die.....i wanna see a nuke go off newayz =P

 

[UltraQuiet]

So what do you think of my neat and tidy solution?

Solution? All I read was some retarded blabbering.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I love you too Dave <smooch>

 

[lawaris]

Originally posted by: Hayabusarider
I love you WA261 <smooch>

I have this fetish for idiots .... like red dawn ...

 

[UltraQuiet]

I have this fetish for idiots

That's a good move on your part because only an idiot would have anything to do with you.

 

[Amused]

Originally posted by: ragazzo
if they want to go to war, then let them, but for god's sake, don't bring in the fookin nukes :/ not only will millions die, but the earth will suffer more (global warming + pollutants + radiation + etc)

Good gawd. We've set off far more than they have in our own back yard and in the Pacific. The Soviets too. It will take more than that to affect the entire Earth.

 

[lawaris]

Originally posted by: DaveSohmer

I have this fetish for idiots

That's a good move on your part because only an idiot would have anything to do with you.

so why are YOU reacting ?

 

[Moonbeam]

Dave:

Quote

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So what do you think of my neat and tidy solution?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Solution? All I read was some retarded blabbering.

____________________________________________________________________

I think Hay was asking about his post not mine.

 

[UltraQuiet]

so why are YOU reacting ?

Don't confuse typing a response on the 'net and "having anything to do with you" as being the same thing because they are not.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Dave: Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So what do you think of my neat and tidy solution? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Solution? All I read was some retarded blabbering. ____________________________________________________________________ I think Hay was asking about his post not mine.

Yep, I was referring to the above feared scenario.
Warning, break for sarcasm/irony

 

[lawaris]

Originally posted by: DaveSohmer

so why are YOU reacting ?

Don't confuse typing a response on the 'net and "having anything to do with you" as being the same thing because they are not.

of corse not !

Did you know you are eligible for "red dawn's" exclusive club ?

 

[Moonbeam]

Hayabusarider, since that's pretty much exactly how things may play out I'll give you an A.

hamer:
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

And where did I say it was my "greater good"? I said a"greater good" meaning a specific end result, or purpose. I don't think you understand, I'm not going to argue with you anymore because you're either not trying very hard or don't have the capacity.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Are you sure the shoe isn't on the other foot. I've been dealing with your point of view for a lifetime. I know it like the back of my hand. It's what I'm telling you that I think is proving the challenge. This 'a greater good' of yours is the very 'your greater good' I'm talking about. My experience tells me that people always give up on my stupidity the moment it starts to pry open their unexamined assumptions. Naturally I would love to see this greater good laid out in a manner that we can all agree on.

 

[UltraQuiet]

Did you know you are eligible for "red dawn's" exclusive club

Hey if you want to put Red and I in a club so that you can worship us, pay homage, etc. that's your business but if you are starting a club because you think Red or I give a sh!t about what you or anyone else on this board thinks of us, then you are wasting your time.