one more thing, which is the most important: go with an open mind and dont be judgemental and you should have a good time, if you dont and are you will be miserable the hwole time.
Originally posted by: Ameesh
Originally posted by: athithi
Let me guess, you are 1/1000000th Indian so you figured you could say something offensive and get away with it - brilliant
Sure, the standard of living is way better in the U.S. But there's plenty to be proud of for those of us that come from India. It's called culture and it doesn't have a dollar value attached to it. If all you can see are the negative things you mentioned above, you are not talking about culture - you are talking about social inadequacies. If creature comforts make a good life for you, congrats - you are a simple being with simple needs. Evolution demands a little more insight than expressing disgust at blackouts, non-potable water and beggars.
Also, if you live in the US, the rate at which your job is headed towards India, you wouldn't be able to pay the friggin' airfare to get there if you wanted to
i think youre blowing more smoke up your own ass then his. i am 100% indian and india would not be a fun place to live especially if you are not wealthy. there is poverty, disese, graft, apathy among tons of other things wrong. dont get me wrong its ok to visit and IMO indians have one o fthe most interesting cultures in the world and some of the best food ive ever eaten but that doesn't change the fact that the major cities in india are terrible places compared to any other 1st world major city.
Cashmoney995, i would suggest asking your parents to take you where they used to hang out. mine did and it was interesting. Also don't worry about the food in mumbai is great, make sure you eat kulfi and bajhi pau from the guy who makes it on the street (hallia vada sp?) his baji pau is sooo good, and get some cold coffee at creme center
Ameesh, you can go fellate yourself - you basically said the same thing I did, except you began by saying I was wrong.
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: athithi
Let me guess, you are 1/1000000th Indian so you figured you could say something offensive and get away with it - brilliant
Sure, the standard of living is way better in the U.S. But there's plenty to be proud of for those of us that come from India. It's called culture and it doesn't have a dollar value attached to it. If all you can see are the negative things you mentioned above, you are not talking about culture - you are talking about social inadequacies. If creature comforts make a good life for you, congrats - you are a simple being with simple needs. Evolution demands a little more insight than expressing disgust at blackouts, non-potable water and beggars.
Also, if you live in the US, the rate at which your job is headed towards India, you wouldn't be able to pay the friggin' airfare to get there if you wanted to
Hey, I have nothing against Indian people. I'm SORRY if my post offended you. Culture is great but as a stipulation to this culture must the country live in these conditions?
It is not easy for a country to develop into a prosperous nation. It's takes work and it takes time. Different nations develop at different rates. Do you understand that people are not poor or live in unhygenic circumstances out of choice? And you are way below simple-minded if you think I claimed that the culture demanded a lifestyle like that. Outside of that, apology accepted.
Dissipate
Diamond Member
- Jan 17, 2004
- 6,815
- 0
- 0
Originally posted by: athithi
Originally posted by: Dissipate
Originally posted by: athithi
Let me guess, you are 1/1000000th Indian so you figured you could say something offensive and get away with it - brilliant
Sure, the standard of living is way better in the U.S. But there's plenty to be proud of for those of us that come from India. It's called culture and it doesn't have a dollar value attached to it. If all you can see are the negative things you mentioned above, you are not talking about culture - you are talking about social inadequacies. If creature comforts make a good life for you, congrats - you are a simple being with simple needs. Evolution demands a little more insight than expressing disgust at blackouts, non-potable water and beggars.
Also, if you live in the US, the rate at which your job is headed towards India, you wouldn't be able to pay the friggin' airfare to get there if you wanted to
Hey, I have nothing against Indian people. I'm SORRY if my post offended you. Culture is great but as a stipulation to this culture must the country live in these conditions?
It is not easy for a country to develop into a prosperous nation. It's takes work and it takes time. Different nations develop at different rates. Do you understand that people are not poor or live in unhygenic circumstances out of choice? And you are way below simple-minded if you think I claimed that the culture demanded a lifestyle like that. Outside of that, apology accepted.
No, I don't mean the culture demands it. I'm just saying culture good, lack of basic infrastructure bad. In other words, I would like to experience Indian culture but at the same time I don't want to put myself at risk.
Yes, you need to plan really well ahead of time and preferably visit with someone who is familiar with the country - but isn't that true of virtually every foreign land to your own? You would go skiing and surfing and snowboarding and rock climbing and cave exploring and sky-diving, but you won't drink water unless it is USFDA approved? If not, why are you so scared of the scarcity of a few amenities. Not that I am trying to convince you to visit India
The fear in this thread is exaggerated and that's all I am trying to point out.
Dissipate
Diamond Member
- Jan 17, 2004
- 6,815
- 0
- 0
Originally posted by: athithi
Yes, you need to plan really well ahead of time and preferably visit with someone who is familiar with the country - but isn't that true of virtually every foreign land to your own? You would go skiing and surfing and snowboarding and rock climbing and cave exploring and sky-diving, but you won't drink water unless it is USFDA approved? If not, why are you so scared of the scarcity of a few amenities. Not that I am trying to convince you to visit India
No. I would be OK with visiting Britain on my own. I would probably stumble around a little bit upon arrival but I surely wouldn't be afraid of contracting diseases or having trouble with the locals.
Someone with a different shade of skin color might not
There's always something or the other - also, you are still comparing developed nations with a developing nation.2 months.... holy..... dont you have school?? you're 17... it is unconstitutional for not go to school before 18!! man! and your parents should know better than that damn it!
how many grandparents do you have ?
Just go and have fun. I bet you if you go with open mind even 2 months will be less
.Ameesh:
It sucks to be poor anywhere(yes even in US). Rich will have a good life anywhere they go, India or US.
dabuddha
Lifer
- Apr 10, 2000
- 19,579
- 17
- 81
Originally posted by: Zombie
how many grandparents do you have ?
Just go and have fun. I bet you if you go with open mind even 2 months will be less
Ameesh:
It sucks to be poor anywhere(yes even in US). Rich will have a good life anywhere they go, India or US.
Simple math. He has 8 great grandparents
Originally posted by: athithi
Someone with a different shade of skin color might not
How on earth do you get diseases interacting with others ? Dude india is no underdeveloped nation, its a nuclear power. You always have two sides of a coin. Now if you wanna go live in slumps and eath crap you might as well get sick here.
Its just that you have to take care.
Originally posted by: athithi
Let me guess, you are 1/1000000th Indian so you figured you could say something offensive and get away with it - brilliant
Sure, the standard of living is way better in the U.S. But there's plenty to be proud of for those of us that come from India. It's called culture and it doesn't have a dollar value attached to it. If all you can see are the negative things you mentioned above, you are not talking about culture - you are talking about social inadequacies. If creature comforts make a good life for you, congrats - you are a simple being with simple needs. Evolution demands a little more insight than expressing disgust at blackouts, non-potable water and beggars.
Also, if you live in the US, the rate at which your job is headed towards India, you wouldn't be able to pay the friggin' airfare to get there if you wanted to
damn. i couldn't say it as well or as succinctly as you, but yeah, everything he said.
You know, Mumbai is far from uncivilized. I think if you open your mind and just relax on the trip, instead of trying to figure out how to bring your world with you, you will have a good time. Your money will go a long way, and there is definetly amazing food and culture to absorb. Every time I go to India, I am amazed at how the time passes so quickly.
The basic tips on avoiding water (I would bring it from home, so you know the quality) and random food stands are good ones. Getting sick is a hassle, and american stomachs don't adjust well to the conditions.
The basic tips on avoiding water (I would bring it from home, so you know the quality) and random food stands are good ones. Getting sick is a hassle, and american stomachs don't adjust well to the conditions.
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
- Jan 26, 2000
- 50,879
- 4,268
- 126
Rofl at reading all of this. In a big general response. I'm not exactly an idiot, Of course I am pretty ticked off that I have to go to india, anybody that thinks that having a spine can get you out of it is stupid because obviousely they dont know indian parents. In response to the jobs, it happens and its historically proved that its the way things work and it never hurts a country in the long run. About Indian's culture, the only reason why India is so disorganized is because Indians have a genetic condition which prevents them from working together in any usefull manner. I see it at my Mandir all the time. Another genetic condition indians have causes a lack of peripheral vision therefore meaning that every single indian always stops in the way of other people...ends up hurting other people and are also generally unco-ordinated. Hillarious, but true.
Here is one thing I'm worried about...we have a house in India...but its been vacant for like a couple years. How much would you bet that when we get there someone will be livin in it?
And can I use a CD-RW drive in one of those external 5.25 inch bays?
Thank's for all of your help guys, AT rules.
Here is one thing I'm worried about...we have a house in India...but its been vacant for like a couple years. How much would you bet that when we get there someone will be livin in it?
And can I use a CD-RW drive in one of those external 5.25 inch bays?
Thank's for all of your help guys, AT rules.
Rofl at reading all of this. In a big general response. I'm not exactly an idiot, Of course I am pretty ticked off that I have to go to india, anybody that thinks that having a spine can get you out of it is stupid because obviousely they dont know indian parents.
I asked you to grow a spine - looks like a few additional grey cells won't hurt either. Call your parents stupid if you wish - I hate to hold your age against you, but you show it too obviously.
In response to the jobs, it happens and its historically proved that its the way things work and it never hurts a country in the long run. About Indian's culture, the only reason why India is so disorganized is because Indians have a genetic condition which prevents them from working together in any usefull manner. I see it at my Mandir all the time. Another genetic condition indians have causes a lack of peripheral vision therefore meaning that every single indian always stops in the way of other people...ends up hurting other people and are also generally unco-ordinated. Hillarious, but true.
We've heard about racism and reverse-racism - here comes a new breed of self-racism! You really believe you sound "cool" and "intelligent" and maybe even "objective" when you speak like this, don't you? Give it a few more years, you will see things much differently. Honestly, I don't really mind you calling yourself, your parents, your friends and your immediate community stupid and genetically disadvantaged. Maybe you speak the truth. Just want to make it abundantly clear that you and your ilk are freaks and exceptions to the rule - by your own admission.
Here is one thing I'm worried about...we have a house in India...but its been vacant for like a couple years. How much would you bet that when we get there someone will be livin in it?
Your family must come from one heckuva nasty neighbourhood in India - not surprising, considering your immeasurable lack of self-esteem.
And can I use a CD-RW drive in one of those external 5.25 inch bays?
Be sure you use a padlock or some coolie might steal it away
Thank's for all of your help guys, AT rules.
I usually hate to bring this up, but Anand's parents couldn't have had very bad genes, right? AT Rules after all!
<--- kicks self in the butt for indulging an adolescent
I asked you to grow a spine - looks like a few additional grey cells won't hurt either. Call your parents stupid if you wish - I hate to hold your age against you, but you show it too obviously.
In response to the jobs, it happens and its historically proved that its the way things work and it never hurts a country in the long run. About Indian's culture, the only reason why India is so disorganized is because Indians have a genetic condition which prevents them from working together in any usefull manner. I see it at my Mandir all the time. Another genetic condition indians have causes a lack of peripheral vision therefore meaning that every single indian always stops in the way of other people...ends up hurting other people and are also generally unco-ordinated. Hillarious, but true.
We've heard about racism and reverse-racism - here comes a new breed of self-racism! You really believe you sound "cool" and "intelligent" and maybe even "objective" when you speak like this, don't you? Give it a few more years, you will see things much differently. Honestly, I don't really mind you calling yourself, your parents, your friends and your immediate community stupid and genetically disadvantaged. Maybe you speak the truth. Just want to make it abundantly clear that you and your ilk are freaks and exceptions to the rule - by your own admission.
Here is one thing I'm worried about...we have a house in India...but its been vacant for like a couple years. How much would you bet that when we get there someone will be livin in it?
Your family must come from one heckuva nasty neighbourhood in India - not surprising, considering your immeasurable lack of self-esteem.
And can I use a CD-RW drive in one of those external 5.25 inch bays?
Be sure you use a padlock or some coolie might steal it away
Thank's for all of your help guys, AT rules.
I usually hate to bring this up, but Anand's parents couldn't have had very bad genes, right? AT Rules after all!
<--- kicks self in the butt for indulging an adolescent
atithi: calm down man. I know you feel when people are ignorant about your country, but no need to go off on them. that will only make it worse, and negatively affect their views. Granted Westerners who haven't been to India will obviously have some negative stereotype associated to it, there's nothing we can do about it though. And in a way, we brought that on ourselves.
Bottomline is this:
If you stay in the any major cities in India, there's nothing wrong. They have awesome restaurants that offer clean food and clean drinks and a good price. The major cities also have awesome clubs (if your into that & old enough). If your in Bombay, check out a place called Barista, its kinda like Starbucks, except with hotter girls (seriously).
Check out the movies theaters there too, it's better than the US (atleast the one I went to in Bombay & Baroda).
oh and DON'T be scared of the way people drive...its quite safe as the drivers there are OBSERVANT! They may cut you off, but they'll make sure that you know they are going to cut you off.
Personally, I enjoy living in the small towns. I lived in one for 1 month during my stay in India (my mom's family lived there), and I had a blast. I loved the environment and the lifestyle in those quiet towns.
And finally, the best time you'll have there will be with your family. You won't even get time to be on the computer, unless your one of those reclusive types that is too shy to talk to cousins that you haven't met in a very long time...or you think that your better than them cause you came from the US.
Bottomline is this:
If you stay in the any major cities in India, there's nothing wrong. They have awesome restaurants that offer clean food and clean drinks and a good price. The major cities also have awesome clubs (if your into that & old enough). If your in Bombay, check out a place called Barista, its kinda like Starbucks, except with hotter girls (seriously).
Check out the movies theaters there too, it's better than the US (atleast the one I went to in Bombay & Baroda).
oh and DON'T be scared of the way people drive...its quite safe as the drivers there are OBSERVANT! They may cut you off, but they'll make sure that you know they are going to cut you off.
Personally, I enjoy living in the small towns. I lived in one for 1 month during my stay in India (my mom's family lived there), and I had a blast. I loved the environment and the lifestyle in those quiet towns.
And finally, the best time you'll have there will be with your family. You won't even get time to be on the computer, unless your one of those reclusive types that is too shy to talk to cousins that you haven't met in a very long time...or you think that your better than them cause you came from the US.
You obviousely have not seen the dumb things Indian parents do. Whether it is in the supermarket where they jam themselves into an aisle right in the middle and don't notice anybody trying to get through. Or maybe it's when I try to say that I'd like to pursue a business degree and they go off about how corporate america is very very crude and bad. Lets not even talk about how they complain about me and my brother's dating habits. Of course I dont doubt them on their intelligence, they are incredibly smart people and I owe a lot to them. Its just culturaly impossible for them to get a grasp on many western things. They become extremely reliant on the media for examples of lifestyle and then try to use it when they try to explain to you why their way of life is much better. By all means I am not self racist, I still consider my self an ABCD, but I realize that change is neccessary for the benefit of the whole. Instead of all Indians trying to become doctors and engineers it would help if we proliferate to different career fields. Perhaps my age and more speciffically my anti
India wouldn't be so sh!tty if there weren't so many people there. But no, Baboolal has to have 8 kids to support him.
yllus
Elite Member & Lifer
- Aug 20, 2000
- 20,577
- 432
- 126
Ah, forget the DVDs and CDs and all at home - you're going there to soak up the culture in an open-minded fashion.
For someone our age who's mostly impartial to hanging out with cousins for two months straight, the worst situation you can get into while visiting India is being trapped in the house all day. Plan out a whole bunch of touristy spots to go to and take photos. Your parents will probably discourage going out on your own, so drag a cousin or two with you if possible...but don't get stuck at home else you'll go crazy with boredom. That is unless your cousins are of age, and are the party-crazy type that make any vacation fun.
Get your shots before going. Do not eat or drink anything from vendors, period. Don't carry too much money on you at any one time, try to make your wallet invisible on your person. I know I'd want to stay in India for a maximum of about three weeks, it gets too boring staying there longer than that. Try to mix things up constantly and you'll stave that off.
For someone our age who's mostly impartial to hanging out with cousins for two months straight, the worst situation you can get into while visiting India is being trapped in the house all day. Plan out a whole bunch of touristy spots to go to and take photos. Your parents will probably discourage going out on your own, so drag a cousin or two with you if possible...but don't get stuck at home else you'll go crazy with boredom. That is unless your cousins are of age, and are the party-crazy type that make any vacation fun.
Get your shots before going. Do not eat or drink anything from vendors, period. Don't carry too much money on you at any one time, try to make your wallet invisible on your person. I know I'd want to stay in India for a maximum of about three weeks, it gets too boring staying there longer than that. Try to mix things up constantly and you'll stave that off.
dr150
Diamond Member
- Sep 18, 2003
- 6,570
- 24
- 81
Being a naturalized white American and visiting India for over a month recently, I can observe that India has amazing potential if they get their act together.
There is an amazing amount of corruption (i.e. govt., police, private business). This corruption (ala Mexico) poses as a major hurdle of accelerating the creation of a middle class. The mafia is also sprouting in cities like Mumbai where it is becoming "just the way of doing business."
This seems to be the growing pains emerging economies seem to go through. There are a lot of parallels with what is going on in Russia for instance.
While India is improving, especially in the techy south (i.e. Bangalore, Madras/Chennai), the culture needs to be westernized if it is to succeed. Many successful native Indians have told me that their countrymen are lazy. Festivals are created on a whim by voter-hungry politicians or priests which brings large regions of India to a standstill. Indians also are reputed to arrive late to meetings or work . Tea/chai breaks are invented throughout the day so they can skip working. An Indian supervisor told me that he has to CONSTANTLY STAY VIGILANT, otherwise his employees won't work or leave work early.
There is also the proliferation of a professional begging class that even affects school children. Since children use their "cute factor" to beg with varied success, many children leave school to take on begging full-time. In order to stifle begging, cities like Delhi are imposing a 500 rupee fine to anyone giving money to a beggar. (I don't see how this law is enforced as the police are corrupt.)
Upon immediate observation, the infrastructure is severly lacking. Only 20% of the country's housholds have a sewer system. Only 70% of the country has potable water access. These are figures quoted in last month India Times FYI.
The Ganges is polluted beyond belief. Tanneries throw chemicals into the river. By the time the water reaches Benares/Varanasi, the water is extremely polluted. Then you have pilgrims going to Benares to die since it's a holy place. People cremate bodies into the river. The vast majority of the poor who cannot afford cremation for relatives just simply dump the cadavers in the river. You then have raw sewage being spilled into the river. Then you see people BATHING & DRINKING this so-called "holy water". It's no surprise you have substantial cases of sicknesses and skin conditions in such cities. You see many poor with worm parasites under the skin. Malaria and Denge fever is also a concern.
The social ills and eventual Westernized culturalization will take several generations to witness any marked progress...... since corruption is so strong, as well as the existence of the "unspoken" caste system, and the DOGMATIC religious doctrines that keep progress slow throughout the country.
India has its charms, but it has a LONG way to go. For many 1st world tourists, it may literally be a little too much to bear. I know many Indians who lived, worked, & were educated in India and who now live in the USA. Most of them would never, ever return to live there or EVEN visit if they had a choice. That may be a little extreme, but it's very telling from an Indian's perspective that they want to completely avoid their mother country. To be fair, I only know of one Indian who'd rather live ANYWHERE in India than live in the USA--an anomalie in my experience.
To be sure, I only wish the best for developing countries like India. Unfortunately, the BIG problems won't be solved in our lifetimes.
There is an amazing amount of corruption (i.e. govt., police, private business). This corruption (ala Mexico) poses as a major hurdle of accelerating the creation of a middle class. The mafia is also sprouting in cities like Mumbai where it is becoming "just the way of doing business."
This seems to be the growing pains emerging economies seem to go through. There are a lot of parallels with what is going on in Russia for instance.
While India is improving, especially in the techy south (i.e. Bangalore, Madras/Chennai), the culture needs to be westernized if it is to succeed. Many successful native Indians have told me that their countrymen are lazy. Festivals are created on a whim by voter-hungry politicians or priests which brings large regions of India to a standstill. Indians also are reputed to arrive late to meetings or work . Tea/chai breaks are invented throughout the day so they can skip working. An Indian supervisor told me that he has to CONSTANTLY STAY VIGILANT, otherwise his employees won't work or leave work early.
There is also the proliferation of a professional begging class that even affects school children. Since children use their "cute factor" to beg with varied success, many children leave school to take on begging full-time. In order to stifle begging, cities like Delhi are imposing a 500 rupee fine to anyone giving money to a beggar. (I don't see how this law is enforced as the police are corrupt.)
Upon immediate observation, the infrastructure is severly lacking. Only 20% of the country's housholds have a sewer system. Only 70% of the country has potable water access. These are figures quoted in last month India Times FYI.
The Ganges is polluted beyond belief. Tanneries throw chemicals into the river. By the time the water reaches Benares/Varanasi, the water is extremely polluted. Then you have pilgrims going to Benares to die since it's a holy place. People cremate bodies into the river. The vast majority of the poor who cannot afford cremation for relatives just simply dump the cadavers in the river. You then have raw sewage being spilled into the river. Then you see people BATHING & DRINKING this so-called "holy water". It's no surprise you have substantial cases of sicknesses and skin conditions in such cities. You see many poor with worm parasites under the skin. Malaria and Denge fever is also a concern.
The social ills and eventual Westernized culturalization will take several generations to witness any marked progress...... since corruption is so strong, as well as the existence of the "unspoken" caste system, and the DOGMATIC religious doctrines that keep progress slow throughout the country.
India has its charms, but it has a LONG way to go. For many 1st world tourists, it may literally be a little too much to bear. I know many Indians who lived, worked, & were educated in India and who now live in the USA. Most of them would never, ever return to live there or EVEN visit if they had a choice. That may be a little extreme, but it's very telling from an Indian's perspective that they want to completely avoid their mother country. To be fair, I only know of one Indian who'd rather live ANYWHERE in India than live in the USA--an anomalie in my experience.
To be sure, I only wish the best for developing countries like India. Unfortunately, the BIG problems won't be solved in our lifetimes.
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