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India says ties with Pakistan lowest in 4 years

techs

techs

Lifer
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...n_re_as/india_pakistan

India says ties with Pakistan lowest in 4 years BY ASHOK SHARMA, Associated Press Writer

India's relations with Pakistan have hit their lowest point in years, India's foreign secretary said Friday, amid tensions over an attack on the Indian embassy in Kabul and clashes between the two sides in the disputed Kashmir region.

Shivshankar Menon told reporters that the recent violence was unfortunate and "affected the future of dialogue (with Pakistan)."

Menon's comments came a day before the prime ministers of the two rivals were scheduled to meet on the sidelines of a regional summit in the Sri Lankan capital of Colombo to discuss the deterioration in their relations, which had been on the mend since the two sides entered a political dialogue to address their competing claims to the Himalayan region of Kashmir.

Pakistan and India have a long history of bitter relations and have fought two of their three wars over Kashmir ? which is divided between them but claimed by both ? since they gained independence from Britain in 1947.

But progress in their dialogue has been slow and deep distrust remains between the nuclear-armed neighbors with New Delhi regularly blaming Islamabad for bombings and shootings that have plagued India in recent years.

That relationship came under renewed stress this month after India blamed Pakistani groups for the July 7 attack on the Indian embassy in Kabul that killed at least 41 people. Pakistan denies the charge.


Hey, I know who is making out because of this situation.
The American defense contractors. We have amply armed both nations.

 
I know there's been tension between the two for as long as I can remember reading/watching the news, but why? The disputed region of kashmir aside, what's at the core of their seeming disdain for one another? Cliffs notes anyone?
 
Originally posted by: Double Trouble
I know there's been tension between the two for as long as I can remember reading/watching the news, but why? The disputed region of kashmir aside, what's at the core of their seeming disdain for one another? Cliffs notes anyone?
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Most of their wars have been fought over Kashmir. Apart from that there is growing Indian influence in Afghanistan. Afghanistan has threatened us with an invasion. Then there is this blame game where every bomb that explodes in India is blamed on Pakistan. Then there is an arms race b/w both nuclear powers. Then another major issue is the Indus Water Treaty. India has often threatened to control the water that starts from their side of Kashmir into the Indus which is the lifeblood of Pakistan. Religion also plays a part.

India is just pressurizing us after seeing the internal problems have plagued us since America's illegal war in Afghanistan.


 
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Originally posted by: Double Trouble
I know there's been tension between the two for as long as I can remember reading/watching the news, but why? The disputed region of kashmir aside, what's at the core of their seeming disdain for one another? Cliffs notes anyone?
Click to expand...

Most of their wars have been fought over Kashmir. Apart from that there is growing Indian influence in Afghanistan. Afghanistan has threatened us with an invasion. Then there is this blame game where every bomb that explodes in India is blamed on Pakistan. Then there is an arms race b/w both nuclear powers. Then another major issue is the Indus Water Treaty. India has often threatened to control the water that starts from their side of Kashmir into the Indus which is the lifeblood of Pakistan. Religion also plays a part.

India is just pressurizing us after seeing the internal problems have plagued us since America's illegal war in Afghanistan.
Click to expand...
Nothing illegal about it Bean. The Taliban Gov gave shelter and Aid to those who attacked our country which is an act of war in itself.
 
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Originally posted by: Double Trouble
I know there's been tension between the two for as long as I can remember reading/watching the news, but why? The disputed region of kashmir aside, what's at the core of their seeming disdain for one another? Cliffs notes anyone?
Click to expand...

Most of their wars have been fought over Kashmir. Apart from that there is growing Indian influence in Afghanistan. Afghanistan has threatened us with an invasion. Then there is this blame game where every bomb that explodes in India is blamed on Pakistan. Then there is an arms race b/w both nuclear powers. Then another major issue is the Indus Water Treaty. India has often threatened to control the water that starts from their side of Kashmir into the Indus which is the lifeblood of Pakistan. Religion also plays a part.

India is just pressurizing us after seeing the internal problems have plagued us since America's illegal war in Afghanistan.
Click to expand...
Nothing illegal about it Bean. The Taliban Gov gave shelter and Aid to those who attacked our country which is an act of war in itself.
Click to expand...

In fact, it's a righteous war. I hear even Allah approves.
 
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Originally posted by: MagicConch
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Muslim v. Hindu
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India has Sikh, Hindu, and Muslims as well as a Sikh prime minister so it's more like Democracy vs. Muslims-run-amok
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Pakistan is also a democracy.
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http://presidentofindia.nic.in/formerpresidents.html

DR. A.P.J. Abdul Kalam - Muslim
K. R. Narayanan
Dr Shankar Dayal Sharma
R Venkataraman
Giani Zail Singh - Sikh
NEELAM SANJIVA REDDY
Dr. Fakhruddin Ali Ahmed - Muslim
Varahagiri Venkata Giri
Dr. Zakir Husain - Muslim
Dr. Sarvapalli Radhakrishnan
Dr. Rajendra Prasad

Out of 11 past presidents of India, 3 have been Muslim, 1 was Sikh.
How many non Muslims Presidents has Pakistan had?

India has been a free democracy since 1947 except for 2 years under emergency rule (kinda-sorta like martial law).

Since 1947 Pakistan has more years under martial / military rule than under a democratic elected ruler. And you still call it a democracy? Thats a very optimistic opinion.

Read this from a Pakistani journalist, columnist & researcher.
Rahil Yasin

In its 60 years of history, Pakistan had four military dictators with their rule expanding more than the half of the total years since its independence.
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Pakistan's ISI helped the Taliban bomb the Indian Embassy in Afghanistan even the CIA has accepted that the ISI had a hand.
 
I wonder what's going to happen after India becomes more of a world power while Pakistan is left as the cesspool that it currently is...it must be horrible to have your 'rival' inevitably become much more powerful than you...
 
COLOMBO, Aug 2: Islamabad has offered to investigate New Delhi?s charge that the ISI was involved in last month?s attack on its embassy in Kabul.

Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani made the offer to his Indian counterpart Dr Manmohan Singh on Saturday on the sidelines of the Saarc summit.

?Prime Minister Gilani said that he would conduct an independent investigation,? Indian Foreign Secretary Shiv Shankar Menon told reporters after the meeting. He said the two countries had agreed to keep the peace process alive and moving.

Prime Minister Gilani had told Mr Singh that Pakistan would like to get to the ?root of the matter?. He asked the Indians to share any evidence they had to support the allegations.

The meeting between Mr Gilani and Mr Singh, the first between the two leaders, assumed considerable attention because of the recent political developments that had taken the relations between the two to new lows.

Mr Singh, in his ?candid? discussion with Mr Gilani, reiterated the Indian stance that violations of LoC ceasefire and the allegations of Pakistan?s involvement in the Indian embassy blast had put the entire peace process under question.

Mr Gilani told Mr Singh that Pakistan attached immense importance to the ceasefire and saw it as the most important confidence-building measure.

The two leaders agreed that the peace process should not be affected by these snags and that the two countries should continue working for improving their ties for the sake of peace and stability of the entire region.

?We need to overcome these (problems) and move forward,? Mr Menon said.

Prime Minister Gilani made a similar indication while talking to reporters outside the hotel where he had gone to see Mr Singh.

He said when politicians meet they make progress. ?I had come here to build bridges and not to raise walls,? he added.

Mr Gilani further said that he would meet President Karzai to discuss the allegations about the blast at the Indian embassy.

It is believed United States Assistant Secretary of State Richard Boucher has played a significant role in getting the two leaders to meet. No meeting had been planned earlier.

The two leaders did not even shake hands or exchange pleasantries when they gathered at the inaugural session of the two-day summit.

President Karzai, in a veiled attack, had said the ?institutional nourishment? for terrorism was coming from Pakistan.

Mr Boucher, who was in Colombo to represent the United States at the Saarc summit as an observer, met Mr Gilani at his hotel.

Pakistan?s actions against extremists and its strained ties with India and Afghanistan topped his agenda, sources said.
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Pakistan PM says Indian accusations hurt peace process COLOMBO, Aug 3 (Reuters) - Pakistan prime minister Yousaf Raza Gilani has said there was no evidence linking his country to attacks on India, adding such accusations had hurt the peace process, Sri Lanka's Sunday Leader newspaper reported Sunday. ?The Indian statement is not only surprising but shocking too,? he told the newspaper in an interview. ?There were also bombing incidents in Pakistan subsequently, but we have not pointed fingers at anyone as we believe in carrying out investigations before laying responsibility.? ?Such baseless accusations serve no purpose other than vitiating bilateral atmosphere,? he said. ?It is important that the blame game is avoided, as both countries have an institutionalised counter-terror mechanism which is functioning satisfactorily.? He was referring to a 2006 anti-terrorism mechanism they established to provide a platform for information exchange and assistance in investigations. (Posted @ 20:30 PST)
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India has over five times the population of Pakistan, naturally they are going to be the country that is much more powerful on a numerical basis.

But before anyone goes all gaga on how democratic India is because its has selected PM's from all its major religious factions, its still important to remember religious tensions between Hindu and Muslim have simmered for many many centuries in an uneasy state of flux.

In contrast, Pakistan is almost 100% Muslim.

Which is why the entire Kashmir issue is so explosive, ethnically, most of the people in the Kashmir area are also Muslim and one would still have to travel hundreds of miles to the East in India to find the real Hindu Muslim dividing line and the places where the spread of Islam did not penetrate that far East.
While the Islamic faith has spread far to the West in Indonesia, that spread was checked by the land mass of India and instead spread along the Arab trade routes by boat.

But little is known about the two bomb blasts that hit India proper, some Jhadist Muslim group has claimed email credit, but one of the reason cited was a Hindu led massacre of Muslims some four years before. As for the Afghanistan based Indian embassy bombing, there is some evidence of involvement by rouge elements of the Pakistani ISI. But if India is messing around in Afghanistan, we should be asking why, and also realize India is getting far afield in actions that are bound to be very provocative.

To find a similar explosive area, a quick trip to the Balkan States have those same religious tensions swirling as they too have been an ancient back and forth battleground along religious lines. In the most recent outbreak there, Christian led butchery of Muslims predominated there.
 
Originally posted by: Lemon law
India has over five times the population of Pakistan, naturally they are going to be the country that is much more powerful on a numerical basis.

But before anyone goes all gaga on how democratic India is because its has selected PM's from all its major religious factions, its still important to remember religious tensions between Hindu and Muslim have simmered for many many centuries in an uneasy state of flux.

In contrast, Pakistan is almost 100% Muslim.

Which is why the entire Kashmir issue is so explosive, ethnically, most of the people in the Kashmir area are also Muslim and one would still have to travel hundreds of miles to the East in India to find the real Hindu Muslim dividing line and the places where the spread of Islam did not penetrate that far East.
While the Islamic faith has spread far to the West in Indonesia, that spread was checked by the land mass of India and instead spread along the Arab trade routes by boat.

But little is known about the two bomb blasts that hit India proper, some Jhadist Muslim group has claimed email credit, but one of the reason cited was a Hindu led massacre of Muslims some four years before. As for the Afghanistan based Indian embassy bombing, there is some evidence of involvement by rouge elements of the Pakistani ISI. But if India is messing around in Afghanistan, we should be asking why, and also realize India is getting far afield in actions that are bound to be very provocative.

To find a similar explosive area, a quick trip to the Balkan States have those same religious tensions swirling as they too have been an ancient back and forth battleground along religious lines. In the most recent outbreak there, Christian led butchery of Muslims predominated there.
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So India is messing around in Afghanistan.. offering aid and helping in reconstructing is messing around?? mmm k
 
Originally posted by: Lemon law
.......................
. As for the Afghanistan based Indian embassy bombing, there is some evidence of involvement by rouge elements of the Pakistani ISI. But if India is messing around in Afghanistan, we should be asking why, and also realize India is getting far afield in actions that are bound to be very provocative.

.
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The region of india has had relationship with afghanistan for hundreds of years except for the period when the taliban was in power. India spends hundreds of million dollars every year in afghanistan building schools and infrastructure..

The president of Afghanistan was schooled in India when he was a kid. Millions of afghans tune into indian soaps on a daily basis ..so what you call meddling in afghanistan is just normal engagement that has restarted after the ISI/USA sponsored fundamentalists were blown to bits..so I dont understand why you just look at the last few years and think that India is meddling, whereas that is not the case.

 
Originally posted by: cirrrocco
Originally posted by: Lemon law
.......................
. As for the Afghanistan based Indian embassy bombing, there is some evidence of involvement by rouge elements of the Pakistani ISI. But if India is messing around in Afghanistan, we should be asking why, and also realize India is getting far afield in actions that are bound to be very provocative.

.
Click to expand...

The region of india has had relationship with afghanistan for hundreds of years except for the period when the taliban was in power. India spends hundreds of million dollars every year in afghanistan building schools and infrastructure..

The president of Afghanistan was schooled in India when he was a kid. Millions of afghans tune into indian soaps on a daily basis ..so what you call meddling in afghanistan is just normal engagement that has restarted after the ISI/USA sponsored fundamentalists were blown to bits..so I dont understand why you just look at the last few years and think that India is meddling, whereas that is not the case.
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And yet millions of Afghan refugees are in Pakistan.
 
okay.how do you expect them to get to india..use the magic carpet..

US is the great liberator of iraq and yet you dont see a lot of iraqis in the US. your argument is just disingenuous.

India does not have a border with afghanistan..the region encompassing india used to trade through fata and pok regions when pok was a part of india. after she lost it during one of the wars with pakistan, India now does not have a border with afghanistan.

your retort is really stupid because then according to you, when west pakistan army was raping and killing people in east pakistan, the east pakistan people refugees should have gone to west pakistan but history shows a rather different view with millions of refugees flooding india.ponder over it.
 
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Originally posted by: cirrrocco
Originally posted by: Lemon law
.......................
. As for the Afghanistan based Indian embassy bombing, there is some evidence of involvement by rouge elements of the Pakistani ISI. But if India is messing around in Afghanistan, we should be asking why, and also realize India is getting far afield in actions that are bound to be very provocative.

.
Click to expand...

The region of india has had relationship with afghanistan for hundreds of years except for the period when the taliban was in power. India spends hundreds of million dollars every year in afghanistan building schools and infrastructure..

The president of Afghanistan was schooled in India when he was a kid. Millions of afghans tune into indian soaps on a daily basis ..so what you call meddling in afghanistan is just normal engagement that has restarted after the ISI/USA sponsored fundamentalists were blown to bits..so I dont understand why you just look at the last few years and think that India is meddling, whereas that is not the case.
Click to expand...

And yet millions of Afghan refugees are in Pakistan.
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you expect them to book first class tix to India???

No, you pakistanis would rather bomb the poor Afghans standing in line for visas at the Indian embassy
 
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