India Has Six Million Abortions Annually, Figure Could be Higher

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
India Has Six Million Abortions Annually, Figure Could be Higher

Who cares? a fetus is not a human being or person, a fetus is a parasitic clump of cells which may be disposed of as one sees fit. Equivalent to the removal of a wart or mole. Or clipping one's toe-nails. flush the thing down the toilet, whatever.

 

[DeeKnow]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: alent1234
i've also heard that some indians kill their children if they turn out to be girls so they don't have to pay a dowry

I think I might have seen that posted here a few months back.

used to happen a lot some 10-20 years ago.... you hear less and less of it now. the laws have been tightened up, and it is rare to hear about this at least in the cities now... in the country side, unfortunately, illiteracy and ignorance rules.... Its a big ship, takes time to turn....

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: KidViciou$
then what are we all fighting about? because we eat matza, or prasad, or wafers, or bread when we pray???


this is why humans and their religion are ALL flawed. instead of looking at the teachings, they look at the practice. i see all those who are in the process of converting others, instead of doing good as being damned. perhaps not eternally, but their day of reckoning will come

do good because it's good, not because someone says it's good

Women would be proud of such sweeping generalizations. You think you can paint everyone with the same broad brush, which just demonstrates that your experience is limited or that you intentionally ignore any experiences that disagree with your agenda. Pretending to be somehow intellectually/morally superior because you're not religious is hardly becoming of you. I'm glad you're in such a moral high ground that you can condemn others. :roll:

Originally posted by: ericlp
33.7% eh? Not bad... That leaves 666 that think you are wrong.

Morning after pill? Well, I'm sure tons get shipped to india what you think they have doctors performing these over there? Think'th again....

What is Ethical or Correct? Certainly your view isn't.

Why not? Because it doesn't agree with what you've heard from all your friends? I doubt you can give me a single reason WHY my view isn't correct.

Originally posted by: aidanjm
Who cares? a fetus is not a human being or person, a fetus is a parasitic clump of cells which may be disposed of as one sees fit. Equivalent to the removal of a wart or mole. Or clipping one's toe-nails. flush the thing down the toilet, whatever.

Parasitic clump of cells? It's as well-defined as a human as you are after about eight weeks. Oh well... Whatever helps you sleep at night.

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

So what?

Jason

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
More evidence of the devaluing of human life.

How so? Unless they're all late-term abortions, you have no grounds for your argument. A fetus is NOT a person. CELLS do not have rights.

Jason

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
How so? Unless they're all late-term abortions, you have no grounds for your argument. A fetus is NOT a person. CELLS do not have rights.

Jason

How do you know a fetus is not a person? I'd like some sort of definitive reasoning if you're going to allow the willy-nilly killing of what MIGHT be a person. Here's a start on the topic.

 

[NeoV]

Can we please ban all lifenews.com links? This is quite frankly getting ridiculous.

 

[DragonMasterAlex]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
How so? Unless they're all late-term abortions, you have no grounds for your argument. A fetus is NOT a person. CELLS do not have rights.

Jason

How do you know a fetus is not a person? I'd like some sort of definitive reasoning if you're going to allow the willy-nilly killing of what MIGHT be a person. Here's a start on the topic.

A PERSON has a mind, the ability to reason and feel, a "personality" and so on. A fetus, and we're talking first term here, nothing beyond--has none of those things. A developing fetus doesn't begin to show brainwave activity until about 12 weeks (end of the first, beginning of the second Trimester).

Sorry, but until you've got a brain, you're just a clump of cells. And no, I don't give a rat's ass whether a "beating heart" is stopped. A heart is just a PUMP.

Jason

EDIT: Rights, incidentally, are a function of your ability to REASON. In accordance with that, people who are less capable of reason are endowed with fewer rights (observe Children and the mentally retarded, who are not accorded a full measure of rights).

Further, rights are waived when you willingly violate the rights of others. In either case, again, a Fetus HAS NO RIGHTS. Cells DON'T HAVE RIGHTS. If you want to give rights on a CELLULAR level, you'd better put in prison every man, woman and child, for we each commit a genocide each morning in the shower.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
A PERSON has a mind, the ability to reason and feel, a "personality" and so on. A fetus, and we're talking first term here, nothing beyond--has none of those things. A developing fetus doesn't begin to show brainwave activity until about 12 weeks (end of the first, beginning of the second Trimester).

Sorry, but until you've got a brain, you're just a clump of cells. And no, I don't give a rat's ass whether a "beating heart" is stopped. A heart is just a PUMP.

Jason

EDIT: Rights, incidentally, are a function of your ability to REASON. In accordance with that, people who are less capable of reason are endowed with fewer rights (observe Children and the mentally retarded, who are not accorded a full measure of rights).

Further, rights are waived when you willingly violate the rights of others. In either case, again, a Fetus HAS NO RIGHTS. Cells DON'T HAVE RIGHTS. If you want to give rights on a CELLULAR level, you'd better put in prison every man, woman and child, for we each commit a genocide each morning in the shower.

How did you develop this definition of a person? Sounds like you stole it from Mary Anne Warren. Unfortunately, if you would read her statements more closely, you would realize that even she had to cede that a first-trimester fetus does, indeed, have the ability to feel pain, has a developed brain, heartbeat, and so on. All of this by the eighth week, if not earlier, placing it well within the first trimester.

Your analogy regarding the mentally retarded child is completely flawed. There is no restriction on the right to life of any human individual based on mental capacity except prior to birth.

 

[Kenazo]

Originally posted by: wirelessenabled

Originally posted by: JavaMomma
We must stop those baby killers. We should invade with our military and put an end to this.

Don't give Bush any ideas.

Somebody suggested to him that Al Quaeda was in Iraq and look where that has taken us:disgust:

He just realized that there's oil in that there sand....

 

[halik]

good,
better 6 million abortions than 6 million people living on $200/year

 

[Kenazo]

Originally posted by: halik
good,
better 6 million abortions than 6 million people living on $200/year

Pushing the pill or condom use (or both) would probably have a far greater effect on the birth rate than abortion will though, and be less costly (I presume), like disease, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: rahvin
And I bet you support president Bush's decision to not give money to international planned parenthood because they teach people about birth control and help pay for it. There are 30 million people in the city of mumbai and there are a dozen other cities with near that population in India. The country has a serious population problem.

And for the one that asked about adoption, India stopped foreign adoption about 20 years ago. They would rather their kids grow up in orphanages in India than get adopted into the US and raised christian.

Actually, I think Riprorin wants the ENTIRE population of India to practice abstinence...

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: rahvin
And I bet you support president Bush's decision to not give money to international planned parenthood because they teach people about birth control and help pay for it. There are 30 million people in the city of mumbai and there are a dozen other cities with near that population in India. The country has a serious population problem.

And for the one that asked about adoption, India stopped foreign adoption about 20 years ago. They would rather their kids grow up in orphanages in India than get adopted into the US and raised christian.

Actually, I think Riprorin wants the ENTIRE population of the world to practice abstinence...

Fixed that for you.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: rahvin
And I bet you support president Bush's decision to not give money to international planned parenthood because they teach people about birth control and help pay for it. There are 30 million people in the city of mumbai and there are a dozen other cities with near that population in India. The country has a serious population problem.

And for the one that asked about adoption, India stopped foreign adoption about 20 years ago. They would rather their kids grow up in orphanages in India than get adopted into the US and raised christian.

Actually, I think Riprorin wants the ENTIRE population of the world to practice abstinence...

Fixed that for you.

Heh.. I just want *him* to practice abstinence, so that he doesn't reproduce...

 

[abaez]

,h

 

[Taejin]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
A PERSON has a mind, the ability to reason and feel, a "personality" and so on. A fetus, and we're talking first term here, nothing beyond--has none of those things. A developing fetus doesn't begin to show brainwave activity until about 12 weeks (end of the first, beginning of the second Trimester).

Sorry, but until you've got a brain, you're just a clump of cells. And no, I don't give a rat's ass whether a "beating heart" is stopped. A heart is just a PUMP.

Jason

EDIT: Rights, incidentally, are a function of your ability to REASON. In accordance with that, people who are less capable of reason are endowed with fewer rights (observe Children and the mentally retarded, who are not accorded a full measure of rights).

Further, rights are waived when you willingly violate the rights of others. In either case, again, a Fetus HAS NO RIGHTS. Cells DON'T HAVE RIGHTS. If you want to give rights on a CELLULAR level, you'd better put in prison every man, woman and child, for we each commit a genocide each morning in the shower.

How did you develop this definition of a person? Sounds like you stole it from Mary Anne Warren. Unfortunately, if you would read her statements more closely, you would realize that even she had to cede that a first-trimester fetus does, indeed, have the ability to feel pain, has a developed brain, heartbeat, and so on. All of this by the eighth week, if not earlier, placing it well within the first trimester.

Your analogy regarding the mentally retarded child is completely flawed. There is no restriction on the right to life of any human individual based on mental capacity except prior to birth.

Right, we're going to start awarding full human status to things that don't even have the mental capacities of a dog. Or squirrel, or deer.

Last I heard, no one particularly gave two sh*ts about roadkill's right to life.

 

[KidViciou$]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: KidViciou$
then what are we all fighting about? because we eat matza, or prasad, or wafers, or bread when we pray???


this is why humans and their religion are ALL flawed. instead of looking at the teachings, they look at the practice. i see all those who are in the process of converting others, instead of doing good as being damned. perhaps not eternally, but their day of reckoning will come

do good because it's good, not because someone says it's good

Women would be proud of such sweeping generalizations. You think you can paint everyone with the same broad brush, which just demonstrates that your experience is limited or that you intentionally ignore any experiences that disagree with your agenda. Pretending to be somehow intellectually/morally superior because you're not religious is hardly becoming of you. I'm glad you're in such a moral high ground that you can condemn others. :roll:

why, women are the only ones who can be religious? i dont quite follow your reply

but yes, because christians say that if you don't pray to jesus you are damned, that DOES allow me to condemn them. that is no worse than people who forcibly convert others

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: Taejin
Right, we're going to start awarding full human status to things that don't even have the mental capacities of a dog. Or squirrel, or deer.

Last I heard, no one particularly gave two sh*ts about roadkill's right to life.

Is roadkill human? In the case of human roadkill, I daresay people would care. How do you know what the mental capacity of a fetus is? Or how about a newborn child? You throw your statements around as if they are fact, but they're complete conjecture.

Originally posted by: KidViciou$
why, women are the only ones who can be religious? i dont quite follow your reply

but yes, because christians say that if you don't pray to jesus you are damned, that DOES allow me to condemn them. that is no worse than people who forcibly convert others

Try reading my post again, chief. Your sweeping generalizations are what I said were fitting for a woman - that seems to be a nasty habit of the college-age female anyway. You try to paint 1/3 of the population of the world with the same broad brush, thereby displaying your bigotry.

Oh, and how can you condemn someone if you're not religious? :roll:

 

[KidViciou$]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: Taejin
Right, we're going to start awarding full human status to things that don't even have the mental capacities of a dog. Or squirrel, or deer.

Last I heard, no one particularly gave two sh*ts about roadkill's right to life.

Is roadkill human? In the case of human roadkill, I daresay people would care. How do you know what the mental capacity of a fetus is? Or how about a newborn child? You throw your statements around as if they are fact, but they're complete conjecture.

Originally posted by: KidViciou$
why, women are the only ones who can be religious? i dont quite follow your reply

but yes, because christians say that if you don't pray to jesus you are damned, that DOES allow me to condemn them. that is no worse than people who forcibly convert others

Try reading my post again, chief. Your sweeping generalizations are what I said were fitting for a woman - that seems to be a nasty habit of the college-age female anyway. You try to paint 1/3 of the population of the world with the same broad brush, thereby displaying your bigotry.

Oh, and how can you condemn someone if you're not religious? :roll:

what the hell are you talking about?????? are you saying that women make generalizations???? i shouldn't have to read your post 7 times to barely understand what you are talking about if you just worded your thoughts properly

and i CAN condemn people because i used to be religious. then i thought about things for myself instead of following what was told for me to follow. even when i was religious however, i NEVER tried to convert others to my faith, or discredited them for not following my faith. even today, i don't try to convert people to not believing nor disbelieving in god. i just ask them questions when they pose blind fallacies ot me as to why i'm going to hell. i also fight to protect people's rights to practice religion, as well as fight to keep other people's religions from being pushed on others

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: KidViciou$
what the hell are you talking about?????? are you saying that women make generalizations???? i shouldn't have to read your post 7 times to barely understand what you are talking about if you just worded your thoughts properly

and i CAN condemn people because i used to be religious. then i thought about things for myself instead of following what was told for me to follow. even when i was religious however, i NEVER tried to convert others to my faith, or discredited them for not following my faith. even today, i don't try to convert people to not believing nor disbelieving in god. i just ask them questions when they pose blind fallacies ot me as to why i'm going to hell. i also fight to protect people's rights to practice religion, as well as fight to keep other people's religions from being pushed on others

Funny, I'm pretty sure I used complete sentences and maybe even proper grammar in my post. Oh well - English isn't for everyone.

Do you believe in hell or a similar place? This is typically a religious construction, which is why I asked how you can condemn someone if you're not religious. If you really thought for yourself, as you proclaim so proudly, you could probably realize that you're no better than the people you would condemn. By 'condemning' someone, you're setting yourself above them. Though I am religious, I fully realize that I'm far from perfect and, therefore, am hardly capable of condemning anyone. Maybe you really are a pillar of virtue and can walk the streets condemning people, but I cannot. Thanks for once again telling me how stupid religious people are - it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: KidViciou$
what the hell are you talking about?????? are you saying that women make generalizations???? i shouldn't have to read your post 7 times to barely understand what you are talking about if you just worded your thoughts properly

and i CAN condemn people because i used to be religious. then i thought about things for myself instead of following what was told for me to follow. even when i was religious however, i NEVER tried to convert others to my faith, or discredited them for not following my faith. even today, i don't try to convert people to not believing nor disbelieving in god. i just ask them questions when they pose blind fallacies ot me as to why i'm going to hell. i also fight to protect people's rights to practice religion, as well as fight to keep other people's religions from being pushed on others

Funny, I'm pretty sure I used complete sentences and maybe even proper grammar in my post. Oh well - English isn't for everyone.

Do you believe in hell or a similar place? This is typically a religious construction, which is why I asked how you can condemn someone if you're not religious. If you really thought for yourself, as you proclaim so proudly, you could probably realize that you're no better than the people you would condemn. By 'condemning' someone, you're setting yourself above them. Though I am religious, I fully realize that I'm far from perfect and, therefore, am hardly capable of condemning anyone. Maybe you really are a pillar of virtue and can walk the streets condemning people, but I cannot. Thanks for once again telling me how stupid religious people are - it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

What he is saying and what you completely miss is that he doesn't use this stupid thing called morality that he bases he decisions on. He uses something called logic. Why? No one has the same morales, how can you force morality? Lets use logic instead.

{Insert Problem Here} - Does this hurt the goverment?
1 - Is a large enough problem that it should become illegal?
2 - What methods can I use that have the least amount of ill effects and still keep people from doing the problem

or we can use religion

1 - What does it say in the bible...

It says its bad, okay lets make it illegal! Lets ban gay marriage and start enforcing it amoung others!

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: DragonMasterAlex
A PERSON has a mind, the ability to reason and feel, a "personality" and so on. A fetus, and we're talking first term here, nothing beyond--has none of those things. A developing fetus doesn't begin to show brainwave activity until about 12 weeks (end of the first, beginning of the second Trimester).

Sorry, but until you've got a brain, you're just a clump of cells. And no, I don't give a rat's ass whether a "beating heart" is stopped. A heart is just a PUMP.

Jason

EDIT: Rights, incidentally, are a function of your ability to REASON. In accordance with that, people who are less capable of reason are endowed with fewer rights (observe Children and the mentally retarded, who are not accorded a full measure of rights).

Further, rights are waived when you willingly violate the rights of others. In either case, again, a Fetus HAS NO RIGHTS. Cells DON'T HAVE RIGHTS. If you want to give rights on a CELLULAR level, you'd better put in prison every man, woman and child, for we each commit a genocide each morning in the shower.

indeed, have the ability to feel pain, has a developed brain, heartbeat, and so on. All of this by the eighth week, if not earlier, placing it well within the first trimester.

Your analogy regarding the mentally retarded child is completely flawed. There is no restriction on the right to life of any human individual based on mental capacity except prior to birth.

Who-the-fsck-cares-about-Mary-Anne-Warren? Its irrevalent, I am not even quoting you on it. A lot of things can feel "Pain". Even "Brain Dead" indiviuals flinch because of their nerve cells!

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: Tabb
What he is saying and what you completely miss is that he doesn't use this stupid thing called morality that he bases he decisions on. He uses something called logic. Why? No one has the same morales, how can you force morality? Lets use logic instead.

{Insert Problem Here} - Does this hurt the goverment?
1 - Is a large enough problem that it should become illegal?
2 - What methods can I use that have the least amount of ill effects and still keep people from doing the problem

or we can use religion

1 - What does it say in the bible...

It says its bad, okay lets make it illegal! Lets ban gay marriage and start enforcing it amoung others!

He didn't say anything about *ethics* (the application of logic to determine right or just actions) in his post. He said that he condemns people. If you want to get into a discussion on ethics, I'm all ears. If you're going to continue to spew your anti-religion bigotry, then you can stuff it in a pipe and smoke it. I am religious and I don't go to the Bible for my answers. I daresay I'm much further along in my study of ethics than you are, based on your description in this post.

Originally posted by: Tabb
Who-the-fsck-cares-about-Mary-Anne-Warren? Its irrevalent, I am not even quoting you on it. A lot of things can feel "Pain". Even "Brain Dead" indiviuals flinch because of their nerve cells!

In your rush to make me look stupid, you failed to realize the purpose of the initial post: to define what is a person. This is what I and Jason were addressing. Since his description is almost ver batim from Mary Anne Warren, a famed abortion proponent, I listed the outstanding problems with this definition as it could be applied to the abortion issue.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

Originally posted by: Tabb
What he is saying and what you completely miss is that he doesn't use this stupid thing called morality that he bases he decisions on. He uses something called logic. Why? No one has the same morales, how can you force morality? Lets use logic instead.

{Insert Problem Here} - Does this hurt the goverment?
1 - Is a large enough problem that it should become illegal?
2 - What methods can I use that have the least amount of ill effects and still keep people from doing the problem

or we can use religion

1 - What does it say in the bible...

It says its bad, okay lets make it illegal! Lets ban gay marriage and start enforcing it amoung others!

He didn't say anything about *ethics* (the application of logic to determine right or just actions) in his post. He said that he condemns people. If you want to get into a discussion on ethics, I'm all ears. If you're going to continue to spew your anti-religion bigotry, then you can stuff it in a pipe and smoke it. I am religious and I don't go to the Bible for my answers. I daresay I'm much further along in my study of ethics than you are, based on your description in this post.

Originally posted by: Tabb
Who-the-fsck-cares-about-Mary-Anne-Warren? Its irrevalent, I am not even quoting you on it. A lot of things can feel "Pain". Even "Brain Dead" indiviuals flinch because of their nerve cells!

In your rush to make me look stupid, you failed to realize the purpose of the initial post: to define what is a person. This is what I and Jason were addressing. Since his description is almost ver batim from Mary Anne Warren, a famed abortion proponent, I listed the outstanding problems with this definition as it could be applied to the abortion issue.

He didnt "SAY" anything, but thats not what he meant I am sure of it. You say you don't goto your bible for answers, which I assume that would be "religion". So whats your opinion on gay marriage then? We aren't discussing this Mary chick we are discussing what a person is. You puporsely say he "STOLE" the defention from her to make him purposely look bad.

I am not really bigoted agaisnt those who are religious. I am bigoted agaisnt those who feel they are somehow more morally higher than other and others should be the same way they are.