Incredible - Daily Radar looks at UT Engine tech update

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Jun 18, 2000
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Most of the mirros of the .mpeg are slow, but if you have the time, I highly recommend downloading it. The animations are pretty swank, but they seem out of place. I see why many modelers complain about the hazards of motion capture. It just doesn't fit well with the scenery. Almost as if its TOO realistic for the world its in. *shrugs*
 

BenSkywalker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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OneENG-

"Being one that has argued against you on the T&L issue I must re-itterate that it is just now becomming SOMEWHAT useful in only a HANDFUL of games."

That's right now, and the handful is getting a lot bigger quite quickly. We are about to see the launch of a $600 video card that lacks the feature, I think you know what I'm getting at:)

"Your arguement will be much stronger by next year. Currently, there is nothing on the market that I can't run on my old V3."

I could say the same about my TNT1 which is currently sitting on a shelf in my desk. The games will run on it. If you take a good look at the situation, your V3 will handle games with high poly loads better then the V5 5500, your board can handle twice the vertex data.

"It is difficult to say the T&L is vital in any way when such a statement is true. It looks like I may soon need an upgrade though! I do love that Unreal engine."

The updated Unreal engine, Quake3 engine, Lithtech 2.0, Crytek, WXP/Experience, the question is becoming which upcoming games won't support hardware T&L in one form or another. Judging by this years E3, by the end of this year titles that support hardware T&L will be the majority and not the exception(when looking at actual games, not Barbie's new Ferrari or whatever).
 
Jul 16, 2000
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I must say the Outdoor Scenes are pretty D@mn Nice, However considering tat this engine won't see the light of day until Next year I think they should maybe look at working on the indoor I little More (Especially after see the outdoor one!).

Dazed
 

oldfart

Lifer
Dec 2, 1999
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Ben, how is the 2D on OEM Creative Labs GF2 cards? I'm thinking about getting one of these, but the 2D quality has me concerned. Is it as good as a Voodoo 3? Thanks!

 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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Think this marks the death of the Voodoo5 6000 also, death to all non T&L boards.
 

Grey

Platinum Member
Oct 14, 1999
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It looks like tribes to me.. Although the trees sho are fancy!
TRibes 2 and Halo are about to ship soon and they have that much detail. Plus they have indoor/outdoor engines as well
 
Jun 18, 2000
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Tribes2 will ship soon (slated for november, correct?), but Halo won't see the light of day until after the X-box release.
 

Soccerman

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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man that looks way better then any console pics I've ever seen..

ben you are one of the only people here who know much about 3D programing. is it really that hard to make an engine (with say the graphics of Quake 3) run faster on slower systems? I mean, the Voodoo 3 is still pretty powerful when you think about it, (except it lacks some features), there's still lots you could do on a card of equal power as this. I don't see game programers trying to streamline games as much as I'd like.

does Quake 3 support 3DNow!? does UT? what about SSE? I mean, the developers don't seem to give a crap about getting more speed out of the game until they release patches, or if they get handed options to do so on a silver platter (ala 3DNow!, or SSE). if we were alot more restricted in terms of hardware speed, we'd actually see some creative programing to get as much speed as possible out of each mhz and each mpixel/second you have..
 

BenSkywalker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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OneENG-

I hope so:)

oldfart-

What res do you run at, and what monitor do you have? The GF based boards seem to have a problem with Trinitron tubed monitors concerning 2D image quality(which includes many makes besides Sony). Up to 1024x768 even the "bad" boards seem to be nearly identical even when paired with a Trinitron tubed monitor, for my Herc DDR(GF1) I would say up to 1280x960 on my monitor I have a problem telling the difference between a Matrox board.

If you are running a Trinitron, or running at very high resolutions then the V3 may have an edge depending on the particular board. I've seen several people comment on excellent 2D on the CL boards while others don't care for it at all, though that could be attributed to what resolution and monitor they have.

Soccerman-



<< is it really that hard to make an engine (with say the graphics of Quake 3) run faster on slower systems? I mean, the Voodoo 3 is still pretty powerful when you think about it, (except it lacks some features), there's still lots you could do on a card of equal power as this. I don't see game programers trying to streamline games as much as I'd like. >>



It's easier then many would think, but there is a rather serious tradeoff. Only ~25%-35% of CPU time is devoted to graphics, you can change that ratio and increase visual quality quite a bit and give up the quality of game code. Gameplay vs graphics.



<< does Quake 3 support 3DNow!? does UT? what about SSE? I mean, the developers don't seem to give a crap about getting more speed out of the game until they release patches, or if they get handed options to do so on a silver platter (ala 3DNow!, or SSE). >>



DirectX and OpenGL support both 3DNow! and SSE, and particular games do add their own support(Quake3 supports both, UT at least supports 3Dnow!, and the Athlon specific SIMD instructions). The speed issue tends to be problems with specific platforms outside of the development platform. For instance DeusEX on nVidia based boards. I think we will continue to see this as publishers are far too worried about shipping on time instead of shipping a completed title.



<< if we were alot more restricted in terms of hardware speed, we'd actually see some creative programing to get as much speed as possible out of each mhz and each mpixel/second you have.. >>



This is possible, but you would need to focus on one graphics card, one processor. You could make some incredible graphics on say a GeForce, just look at the tech demos, but when you start to worry about that same code running on different boards you need to lessen the specific optimizations. An example of this can be seen by looking to the original Unreal. The graphics at the time were incredible, but it would only run properly on a 3dfx board. I forget what the high end rigs were running at the time, but until the patch released a couple of months ago my Athlon 550 GF DDR combo had trouble running it smoothly. Those type of breakthrough graphics can be done again, but they will more then likely force you to run one particular board to enjoy them.
 

oldfart

Lifer
Dec 2, 1999
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Ben, thanks for the reply. I run a Mitsubishi 900U Flat screen 19 incher. It's a Diamondtron NF. Aperture grill, like a Trinitron. (Nice monitor BTW). I run 1152 x 864 as a desktop resolution. My Voodoo 3 is VERY NICE with this setup. Best 2D by far I've ever had (including Matrox). I'd hate to get a downgrade going to a GF2. The things is, the 3D is pretty darn good too. UT is incredible with the card, and Quake 3 is excellent also. I personally don't see why people complain so much about the V3 image quality. Q3 looks really great, and I get about 80 fps in demo 1 high quality 800 x 600. More than playable. This new Unreal engine looks to be something that will force me into a new vid card. By the time its actually out, NV20 and other solutions should be available. Maybe best to wait until then?
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
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Me and my V5 know that T&amp;L are important. But I'm sure the game will be plenty playble on my V5. I played the original UT on a K6-2 350/TNT2 for a long time until I got a Tbird 800/V5. So I'm sure I will be able handle the way this game runs on my system.
 

Viper GTS

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
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Damn...

A game that will really make my P3 933/GF2 GTS combo shine...

Too bad I only have a 15&quot; monitor.

:(

Viper GTS
 

BenSkywalker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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&quot;Q3 looks really great, and I get about 80 fps in demo 1 high quality 800 x 600. More than playable. This new Unreal engine looks to be something that will force me into a new vid card. By the time its actually out, NV20 and other solutions should be available. Maybe best to wait until then?&quot;

If your V3 is keeping you happy, then by all means wait. If you are looking for an upgrade for a Win9X machine and want decent games performance, I would go with a Radeon. They have excellent 2D quality across the board, and have more support for hardware T&amp;L then the GF/GF2 boards on top of ATi's outstanding video and DVD support.

If the V3 is keeping you happy and you want to upgrade in anticipation of &quot;serious&quot; T&amp;L games, then I would wait for NV20/G800/Rampage/Radeon2 to make a purchase.
 

oldfart

Lifer
Dec 2, 1999
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Thanks Ben. I think thats what I'll do. My V3 card plays all current games quite well. Once there is a game thats AVAILABLE that the V3 wont handle, it'll be time to upgrade. Till then ol Bessy will do just fine. :)